I'm struggling in my denomination

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JohnStrachan

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About 12 years ago I left thre RC church and began worshipping in the Anglican church. I’ve never felt definitive about the move, though my relationship with Jesus, knowledge of scripture, quest to know more about the early church and church history has indeed grown. And my issues with Roman Catholicism are as unresolved as ever. Yet I keep coming back to CA and keep exploring Catholicism. My question is related to this struggle. Do you believe your church has authority?

This is proving to be really tough for me because I sincerely believe that Jesus meant to create just one church.

I’m not convinced that any Protestant denomination was actually meant to be created by Jesus, though I do believe that in the Middle Ages the RC church did deviate from what Christ intended.

So so all the Protestants on CA - and RC’s I guess - do you believe your church has the authority to teach definitely? If not, how does that make you feel about it’s teachings then? Do you believe your denomination got it right? And if so, what is it about your denomination that sets it apart from the authority of any other church?

God Bless.
 
I do not have a barque in this race as an unbeliever but you seem to be asking Protestants to argue that their denomination is the ‘One True Church’ in the Catholic sense. I don’t think Protestants believe in that sort of Church. Their ‘universal Church’ consists of all ‘true’ believers and does not require either apostolic continuity or a specific teaching authority.

Why do you believe that Jesus ‘meant to create just one Church’? Ans what exactly do you believe his intention was as to the nature of ‘oneness’? Are different liturgical rites ok? Different languages of worship? Different beliefs about the Trinity?
 
Hello @JohnStrachan, I’m glad to see you’re still pulled towards the Church. I was SDA, and so authority as a concept was difficult for me.

I believed in the authority of scripture, and that it just so happened that the Adventist faith lined up with it. It was very difficult to see authority as being inherent in an institution.

But, by the grace of God, I came to see that authority is a common theme of the Scriptures. That authority rested on those whom God favoured. It was often handed over tothose who were least expected. Think Abel over Cain, Isaac over Ishmael, Joshua over Caleb, etc.

It is clear the Israelites were the favoured of God, and had inherent authority in them. Yet their inheritance was handed over to another, prefigured many times before. This inheritor became the Catholic church.

If I didn’t believe this, it would be a misunderstanding of the nature of God’s working in the world. He is ultimately personal, but He gets there through human institutions and rites. He always has, and always will.
 
FiveLinden said:
Their ‘universal Church’ consists of all ‘true’ believers and does not require either apostolic continuity or a specific teaching authority.
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So how does a denomination determine what they believe? Where does their doctrine come from? Under whose authority do they interpret scripture?

Does every Protestant denomination believe that they got the interpretation right? And if they don’t, then why bother?
 
They generally have a brief ‘statement of faith’ akin to a creed. If you check out their websites you’ll usually find it there. Bigger demoninations like Anglicans of course have more complex positions.
 
Authority is the lynchpin. I was raised Evangelical Protestant. I became Catholic when I was 18. I considered Orthodoxy, and it still appeals to me some 15 years later, but even there it comes down to authority… how can I choose between the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox communions? The Eastern Orthodox will tell you Chalcedon is valid because it was accepted by “the Church”. Yet a big chunk of the Church rejected it. As a Catholic I can say it was ratified by Pope St Leo.
 
JohnStrachan said:
Do you believe your church has authority?
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This exact question, coupled with Acts 15, led me from the Anglican communion in which I was raised into the Catholic Church as an adult.

Once I resolved the authority question the rest just flowed, even the things I didn’t understand or “agree with”, i.e. contraception and other moral teachings. I assented and figured the rest would work itself out

(Yes shocking for anyone who knows me here, I was not always on board with the Church’s teaching on contraception. Being single it wasn’t something I had to worry about at that exact moment, but I knew I’d have to assent to it. God’s Grace is good.)
 
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JohnStrachan said:
It’s proving to be a huge stumbling block for me. Jesus gave the keys to Peter not Henry, Martin, Ulrick or John.
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This was my exact reason for leaving Protestantism too (though I ended in Orthodoxy). Who gave Pastor Donna authority to play “The Sound of Silence” on her acoustic guitar at our 9am service? Some dude who started his own church and “ordained” her? So essentially no higher authority?
JohnStrachan said:
So how does a denomination determine what they believe? Where does their doctrine come from?
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Unfortunately it’s become quite obvious, especially in the last ~15 years, that their beliefs consist of “whatever we feel to be correct at the given moment (even if it contradicts what generations of us believed earlier)” - they were against gay marriage, now they support gay marriage. They banned women priests, now they ordain women priests. Etc. etc. etc. Why even bother at that point? If nobody can say definitively what’s good or bad, why stay?
 
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JohnStrachan said:
About 12 years ago I left thre RC church and began worshipping in the Anglican church. I’ve never felt definitive about the move, though my relationship with Jesus, knowledge of scripture, quest to know more about the early church and church history has indeed grown. And my issues with Roman Catholicism are as unresolved as ever. Yet I keep coming back to CA and keep exploring Catholicism. My question is related to this struggle. Do you believe your church has authority?

This is proving to be really tough for me because I sincerely believe that Jesus meant to create just one church.

I’m not convinced that any Protestant denomination was actually meant to be created by Jesus, though I do believe that in the Middle Ages the RC church did deviate from what Christ intended.

So so all the Protestants on CA - and RC’s I guess - do you believe your church has the authority to teach definitely? If not, how does that make you feel about it’s teachings then? Do you believe your denomination got it right? And if so, what is it about your denomination that sets it apart from the authority of any other church?

God Bless.
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If a group of people who agree on the basics of the gospel get together to fellowship, pray, worship and grow spiritually, who has the authority to insist that they must have authority?
 
Simply replying without a lot of thought, I would suggest agreement with the Biblical account of Jesus birth, life, ministry, death and resurrection.
 
JohnStrachan said:
How is this determined? I can get two people in a room to discuss Matthew 25 and it’s implications for how to orient our lives and come up with radically different perspectives.
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And this does not begin to address the further issue of the many lesser intelligent people that simply cannot “discuss” the issue with any reasonable conclusions.

Peace!!!
 
How do you determine what the Biblical canon is to begin with? Still comes down to authority.
 
Scott Hahn in Rome Sweet Home:

'Besides, Dr. Gerstner, how can we be sure about the 27 books of the New Testament themselves being the infallible word of God, since fallible Church councils and Popes are the ones who made up the list?’
‘Scott, that simply means that all we can have is a fallible collection of infallible documents.’
I asked, ‘Is that really the best that historic Protestant Christianity can do?’
 
twf said:
How do you determine what the Biblical canon is to begin with? Still comes down to authority.
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I shouldn’t have started a conversation I can’t continue right now…have visitors t the house.
 
Christ said he would send the paraclete to guide the church into all truth. Also, that he’ll would not prevail against it. You can trust God will protect His church from error.
 
JohnStrachan said:
Do you believe your church has authority?
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Honestly, I’m having a hard time understanding what you mean by “authority.” What does that even mean in the context of religion?

I do understand authority in the context of human institutions. My church has authority granted by the IRS to collect donations without paying taxes. But I see no corollary to that in the realm of religion.

Some people in this thread have talked about “authority” in the context of Scripture, as if being written in Scripture makes something true. Personally, I don’t think that is the case at all. Being true makes something true. Nothing is true simply by virtue of being included in a particular book.

I think Scripture is highly reliable, so it is reasonable to assume that if something is included in the Scriptures, there is a very high likelihood it is true. But that is similar to what I would say about a study published in a very reputable scientific journal. Being in the journal doesn’t make it true. Being in the journal simply represents strong evidence and expert consensus that it very likely is true.

If there are many Scriptures saying the same thing, that is even better, because now you have many experts, from different backgrounds and in different cultural settings, reaching the same conclusion. That is very convincing.

In that sense, I suppose you could say Scriptures have “authority” because they reflect expert consensus, and it is reasonable to trust the knowledge of experts (even if they are sometimes wrong).

But I’m not sure if that’s what you mean by “authority.” So perhaps, could you clarify, please?
 
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Are you praying the Rosary every day? Everyone needs to be praying the Rosary daily. Grace flows through Mary.
 
“I should not believe the Gospel, except by the authority of the Catholic Church”–St. Augustine

Now, as an Orthodox Christian I will say that once I have overcome the problems of needing an authority to interpret and pass down the teachings of the Gospel, then I must move to the problem of which of those Apostolic Churches is the Catholic Church?

Is is the Catholic Church in communion with Rome?

Is it the Orthodox Catholic Church?

Is it the Oriental Orthodox Churches?

The best question I could find to weigh the merits of each, is Christ’s saying “Ye shall know them by their fruits.” And what is the fruit of each particular church but her saints? For in the Saints you find the highest and most sublime expression of the spirituality of the faith.
 
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