Im thinking of leaving the church

[Tantum_ergo]

I think we are answering you, aren’t we? You’ve been given accurate information on all you have brought up so far ‘against’ the Church. I know it is hard when you have received (not 20 posts to each statement, actually but probably 8-10) more than you gave, but really now. You yourself didn’t actually answer those who answered you.

Let me point out: You questioned praying to the saints and gave remarks on ‘idol worship’ and statues. You were given information about the Church teaching on this.

You then went on to post on other topics–the ‘pagan’ Romans (this was addressed).
The language of the Bible (this was addressed).
How a saint is canonized, which you wrongly attributed to ‘the pope’ (this was addressed).
Isn’t it all about the Bible and God (while God is the be-all and end-all, and Scripture is the Written Word, you are leaving out some very important things like Tradition–the oral word–and authority and how the Holy Spirit guides us) . This was addressed.
You bring up saints and Mary again without even addressing the information already given you–and giving a faulty analogy on Abraham as well, off topic.
You then bring up “I’m born in sin”. What does that have to do with the topic?
You then bring up a ‘youtube’ video.
And finally, you attempt to throw onus on us for not answering you–when you are the one not really answering us.

If you are a Catholic, then please do what has been suggested by many here, Catholic and Protestant alike, and educate yourself as to what the Church actually teaches.

From your posts, you not only do not know what the Church teaches, you refuse to even look at what it teaches. Apparently what you have seen or heard from ‘somebody’ --emphatically not from God Himself though I’m sure He gets a kick out of the occasional good clean You-Tube videos–is so appealing to you that you’re willing to take it for truth and ignore the real truth.

And either you’re here hoping to stir others into following your error (I hope not) or there is some part of you that, even while it is being tempted into evil and falsity, comes here hoping to get ‘the truth’ that the Catholic Church does offer. If the latter, you are being given the grace to accept–please, accept!

 

[exiled]

i get 20 questons for each post, i aswer and ask as much.

I guess I’ve missed where you are actually asking a question. It seems to me that you are making assertions.
Is our worship of one God an error simply because another culture at some time in history believed in only one god?
Is our belief in the afterlife an error because some pagans believed in an afterlife?
Is belief in the inerrancy of a book an error simply because other people believe in the inerrancy of a heretical book? (book of Mormon, Quran)
Don’t throw out your faith on such rubbish as was contained in the youtube video.
The fact that pagans had some element of truth in what they believed does not make that which is Truth pagan.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Isnt it all about the bible and God? Why having saints, and why even talk about the virgin Mary? Its like talking about abrahams wife.

Okay. Here is some scripture supporting the Catholic theology of the Communion of Saints:

Communion of Saints Proved from Scripture

1. All Christians are connected through the Body of Christ

“If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.”** (1 Corinthians 12:26**)
“If anyone has caused grief, he has not so much grieved me as he has grieved all of you” (2 Corinthians 2:5)

2. Every Christian is a member of the Body of Christ

“Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others.” (Romans 12:4-5)

“The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.” (1 Corinthians 12:12-13)

2.5 We become members of the Body of Christ through baptism

---

“having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.” (Colossians 2:12)

“We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.” (Romans 6:4)

“for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.” (Galatians 3:27)

3. Physical death does not separate us from the Body of Christ

“For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 8:38-39)

**4. There is only one Body of Christ, in Heaven and on Earth; **

“by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.” (Ephesians 2:15-16)

“There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called—one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.” (Ephesians 4:4-5)

**5. The Church is the Body of Christ; **

“And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.” (Ephesians 1:22-23)

“And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy” (Colossians 1:18)

**6. Just as we can pray for one another, we can suffer for one another; **

“Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. (Colossians 1:24)

I can give you lots more scriptural explanations for Catholic doctrine if you like. The Bible was written, preserved, promulgated and promoted by the Catholic Church so nothing in the Bible conflicts with the Church’s teachings and vice versa.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:

 

[Ani_Ibi]

i get 20 questons for each post, i aswer and ask as much.

Maybe from those lurking from another website, but not from us. Do you have a target date as to when you might be “leaving” (your word) the Catholic Church, by the way?

It just strikes me as odd that, for someone who is leaving, you seem to be spending an inordinate amount of time staying. Find us good company, do you?

 

[banjo]

Im thinking of leaving the catholic church for the protestant, iv done a lot of thinking. We have statues of Jesus and saints that we pray to when we have issues. THERE IS EVEN ONE FOR BALDNESS!

Maybe its cause the roman catholic church is roman. The romans accepted God, but they couldnt let go of polytheism and several Gods, maybe thats why we have saints?

Protestants uses the bible, Gods word. All arguments for catholism seems to come from other catholics.

I would like to ask you one question. Do you believe that after the consecration the bread ceases to be bread and becomes the actual body of Christ, and the wine ceases to be wine and becomes the actual blood of Christ and that only the appearance of bread and wine remain?

 

[Doberman]

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God…" (King James Bible, Exodus 20:4,5).

The Bible clearly warns against even BOWING to a graven image. God is a jealous God and will not share His rightful glory with another.

“I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.” (Isaiah 42:8)

In my catholic church people show respect to statues of a saint, and some pray to it. I admitt i have talked with protestants latley.

 

[VociMike]

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God…" (King James Bible, Exodus 20:4,5).

The Bible clearly warns against even BOWING to a graven image.

You vastly understate your case. The Bible clearly warns against making **any likeness **of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth! Read those words and recognize that you too are an idolator, in your literalist view. Every Christian alive is an idolator, in your literalist view. We are all doomed to idolatry, in your literalist view.

 

[SPH1]

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God…" (King James Bible, Exodus 20:4,5).

The Bible clearly warns against even BOWING to a graven image. God is a jealous God and will not share His rightful glory with another.

“I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.” (Isaiah 42:8)

In my catholic church people show respect to statues of a saint, and some pray to it. I admitt i have talked with protestants latley.

Yea, it sounds like you’re taking a Protestantized view, and have virtually no real understanding of any Catholic view.

And it sounds like you’ve already left the Holy Catholic Church.

 

[Doberman]

You vastly understate your case. The Bible clearly warns against making **any likeness **of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth! Read those words and recognize that you too are an idolator, in your literalist view. Every Christian alive is an idolator, in your literalist view. We are all doomed to idolatry, in your literalist view.

Maybe, we are born in sin so it is possible. Jesus died for our sins so…

But still, having pictures of mother mary in your home can not be excused.

You should go directly to God not thrue a picture or statue of someone else. That is having Idols.

 

[Michael_Howard]

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God…" (King James Bible, Exodus 20:4,5).

The Bible clearly warns against even BOWING to a graven image. God is a jealous God and will not share His rightful glory with another.

“I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.” (Isaiah 42:8)

In my catholic church people show respect to statues of a saint, and some pray to it. I admitt i have talked with protestants latley.

Something in my gut tells me you’re not being forthright here, anybody else feel the same?

 

[Doberman]

Yea, it sounds like you’re taking a Protestantized view, and have virtually no real understanding of any Catholic view.

And it sounds like you’ve already left the Holy Catholic Church.

I have full understanding. And no i havent left the catholic church. And dont think I ever will. Im just saying there are great flaws in it.

 

[SPH1]

I have full understanding. And no i havent left the catholic church. And dont think I ever will. Im just saying there are great flaws in it.

Glad to hear that you haven’t left! There are many great Catholic sites that can answer and refute pretty much anything that the Protestants can throw at the Holy Church. Catholic Answers here is a good place to start, they have material on their main site.

 

[FCEGM]

I have full understanding. And no i havent left the catholic church. And dont think I ever will. Im just saying there are great flaws in it.

This belies the above:

But still, having pictures of mother mary in your home can not be excused.

You should go directly to God not thrue a picture or statue of someone else. That is having Idols.

I’m afraid you have no understanding of the nature of the Church or of the reasons for rightly offering devotion to our - and your - Blessed Mother. But I could be wrong, so please tell us why, since you claim “full understanding”, the Church allows such images of the Holy Virgin?

 

[Michael_Howard]

I have full understanding. And no i havent left the catholic church. And dont think I ever will. Im just saying there are great flaws in it.

Are you SDA brother?

 

[NotWorthy]

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God…" (King James Bible, Exodus 20:4,5).

The Bible clearly warns against even BOWING to a graven image. God is a jealous God and will not share His rightful glory with another.

“I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.” (Isaiah 42:8)

In my catholic church people show respect to statues of a saint, and some pray to it. I admitt i have talked with protestants latley.

A) Why are you using a King James Version of the Bible??? You’re missing out on seven books of God’s Sacred Word. You state that the Bible is where we should go for all truth, and then you use a book that doesn’t have all the books of the Bible. Even the original KJV had these books, then took them out.

B) Why do people that stick to the first commandment like glue turn around and deny anything else from the OT, saying “we’re no longer under the Mosaic Covenant”??? I’m not saying the OP is, it’s just something I’ve noticed from time to time.

C) Do you go to your English Teacher to learn Calculus? Why go to a Protestant to learn about the Catholic Church. I mean, that ISIS thing cracks me up!!!

 

[Crumpy]

Doberman: you’re thinking is so much out in left field, it seems that you have already left the church far behind, for the reasons you so copiously provide.

If your faith comes down to what responses are posted here in this thread, you’ve put your hope in something far too hit-or-miss.

Even the idea that you would leave the Catholic Church with no particular alternative in hand. I only suggest that you give THAT church the same going over that you are giving the Catholic Church.

Your OP boils down to sola scriptura, which is discussed extensively in these forums. There are many points to be made against sola scriptura, and many of those come right from scripture.

I’ll suggest you consider even one of them:

I Ti 3:15 But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.

It is the CHURCH, not the BIBLE which is the pillar and foundation of truth.

 

[NotWorthy]

Originally Posted by Doberman forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
I have full understanding. And no i havent left the catholic church. And dont think I ever will. Im just saying there are great flaws in it.
Yes, there are many great flaws in the people of the church, but not the Church’s Teaching. Else, the Gates of Hell would have prevailed if the Holy Spirit would have allowed the Church to teach in error. You’ll find that in Matthew 16, so please don’t dispute Jesus’ Word.

 

[Michael_Howard]

A) Why are you using a King James Version of the Bible??? You’re missing out on seven books of God’s Sacred Word. You state that the Bible is where we should go for all truth, and then you use a book that doesn’t have all the books of the Bible. Even the original KJV had these books, then took them out.

B) Why do people that stick to the first commandment like glue turn around and deny anything else from the OT, saying “we’re no longer under the Mosaic Covenant”??? I’m not saying the OP is, it’s just something I’ve noticed from time to time.

C) Do you go to your English Teacher to learn Calculus? Why go to a Protestant to learn about the Catholic Church. I mean, that ISIS thing cracks me up!!!

My gut tells me this brother is not being forthright, I hope I’m wrong though…

 

[Doberman]

This belies the above:

I’m afraid you have no understanding of the nature of the Church or of the reasons for rightly offering devotion to our - and your - Blessed Mother. But I could be wrong, so please tell us why, since you claim “full understanding”, the Church allows such images of the Holy Virgin?

Cause Satan decieves many, he can even come in the form of angels…

All over the world people see the virgin mother. She has SHRINES! Iv visited one of them in turkey! They glorify her! IDOLTARY!

Lady of the roses, Ishtar, Afrodite, Satan, it has many names…

 

[Doberman]

Yes, there are many great flaws in the people of the church, but not the Church’s Teaching. Else, the Gates of Hell would have prevailed if the Holy Spirit would have allowed the Church to teach in error. You’ll find that in Matthew 16, so please don’t dispute Jesus’ Word.

I know thats why im still here. But these “people” influences the church…