I'm very liberal, considering Catholicism.

[D0UBTFIRE]

Hi all!

This has become a stumbling block for me. Part of me is really interested in becoming Catholic because a lot of the theology makes sense, but the other part of me is terrified of conservative clergy. I’m having a very hard time differentiating what is peoples opinions and what is the actual teaching of the Church.

I read somewhere that if a Catholic votes for a politician that is not pro-life that they are automatically excommunicated. Is that how it is?

 

[apromisemade]

Hi all!

This has become a stumbling block for me. Part of me is really interested in becoming Catholic because a lot of the theology makes sense, but the other part of me is terrified of conservative clergy. I’m having a very hard time differentiating what is peoples opinions and what is the actual teaching of the Church.

I read somewhere that if a Catholic votes for a politician that is not pro-life that they are automatically excommunicated. Is that how it is?

In the for-what-it’s-worth department I’m in the same boat. I would love to become Catholic but I feel like I could never be an acceptable member of the Catholic community because of some of my political beliefs. So it’s not just you .

 

[StCsDavid]

I read somewhere that if a Catholic votes for a politician that is not pro-life that they are automatically excommunicated. Is that how it is?

You heard wrong there, though the person could find oneself in a state of serious sin assuming other factors were in play. A Catholic is neither liberal nor conservative, but rather in communion with the teachings of Christ and the only Church He gave to humanity or not. If one is not, and one is protesting one or or more of her teachings, then one is a Protestant, regardless of one’s political beliefs. Many Catholics, today, are politically conservative because the liberal party is so liberal it really gives them no other choice. Ultimately it comes down to do you put your faith in man or your faith in Christ.

 

[Dempsey1919]

Please define what you mean by “liberal.”

To me, liberal means that you support abortion, homosexuality, homosexual marriage and homosexual adoption. If this is what you mean, then I would say becoming Catholic would require you to change your beliefs on these issues. The Catholic Church teaches that acting on homosexual desires is sinful; it teaches that marriage is solely between men and women, and that children should only be raised in the traditional family setting. You cannot support abortion, and you should be aware that it is considered sinful to use any forms of artificial birth control.

As another poster has stated, you should not consider yourself a liberal or conservative Catholic. There are only faithful or disobedient Catholics. However, faithful Catholics are considered “conservative” by most people. The Church is steadfast in it’s defense of traditional values and this will never change. The Catholic Church will never change any of it’s moral or religious teachings.

Why are you terrified of conservative clergy? What you are saying is that you are terrified of faithful Bishops, priests and nuns who fully endorse and teach the Catholic faith in it’s entirety. These are good priests and I am sure that you will grow to love and respect them. You should also be aware that the number of conservative clergy is increasing; we are now beginning to see the fruits of the Great John Paul II as the newly ordained are more orthodox and conservative than the older generations of priests. This trend will only continue under the leadership of Benedict XVI. The days of the “liberal” dissenting clergy are numbered; the young priests are very faithful and orthodox, and would be considered “conservative” by a lot of people.

The Catholic Church is an “conservative” institution in that it teaches, defends, and promotes traditional morality and ethics. However, I do not like using the term “conservative” and prefer to use the word “faithful” instead. I believe those who are considered conservative are really just faithful Catholics.

Becoming Catholic is not an easy decision for anyone to make. You really have to decide whether you agree with everything that the Church teaches. Good Catholics do not pick and choose what we want to believe; we do not accept some doctrines and reject others, we believe them all. If you want to be Catholic, you have to submit faithfully to the teachings of the Magisterium, and accept all of the doctrines of the faith in their entirety. You need to do a lot of soul searching to decide whether you are willing and able to change your views and beliefs to those taught by the Catholic Church. Only become a Catholic if you really believe in everything that the Church teaches.

 

[KingAlfred]

Hi all!

This has become a stumbling block for me. Part of me is really interested in becoming Catholic because a lot of the theology makes sense, but the other part of me is terrified of conservative clergy. I’m having a very hard time differentiating what is peoples opinions and what is the actual teaching of the Church.

I read somewhere that if a Catholic votes for a politician that is not pro-life that they are automatically excommunicated. Is that how it is?

The Episcopal Church might be more appropriate for you. It has a ‘high-church’ component, which might satisfy your desire for Catholicism.

 

[Dempsey1919]

The Episcopal Church might be more appropriate for you. It has a ‘high-church’ component, which might satisfy your desire for Catholicism.

I second this. Although I would love for you to embrace the truth of the Catholic faith, I feel that the Episcopal faith would be easier for you to accept because it is far more liberal than the Catholic faith. Make no mistake, being Catholic in the modern world is extremely difficult. We are different than the rest of society and are held to a far greater moral standard. Our beliefs are offensive to many people. However, our doctrines and beliefs will never change. Liberal theologians and clergy have tried to change the faith over the last forty years but they have failed. The Church will never compromise with the modern worldview. If you hold “liberal” views, you will find the Catholic faith difficult to embrace. However, I encourage you to re-examine your beliefs and pray to God for guidance.

 

[neophyte]

Hi all!

This has become a stumbling block for me. Part of me is really interested in becoming Catholic because a lot of the theology makes sense, but the other part of me is terrified of conservative clergy. I’m having a very hard time differentiating what is peoples opinions and what is the actual teaching of the Church.

StCsDavid said something very significant. When I was investigating Catholicicsm, I came to a point where I realized that Christ established a government in the hands of Church officers, and gave that government the authority to teach in his name. So it didn’t matter whether or not I agreed with or liked a doctrine of the Church, because if the Church and I disagree on doctrine then by definition I’m the one who needs to change his mind because Christ said so.

You say that a lot of the theology makes sense to you. What I did was to take one tough issue at a time and prayefully study the teaching of the Church so that I could more fully understand the reasoning. My will was to submit to whatever God wanted for me. The Catechism, the Church Fathers and the other Saints, various Papal writings, the resources here at catholic.com - all of them were very valuable, and in the end I was able to willingly embrace every teaching that had previously repelled me.

Are the clergy human? Sure. Need you be terrified of them? No more than you need be terrified of anyone else, and in fact the most faithful are the easiest to love.

I read somewhere that if a Catholic votes for a politician that is not pro-life that they are automatically excommunicated. Is that how it is?

No, but it’s not really a yes or no question. There’s a lot that needs to be unpacked, and there are a few threads that discuss that issue.

Do not be afraid.

 

[1ke]

Hi all!

This has become a stumbling block for me. Part of me is really interested in becoming Catholic because a lot of the theology makes sense, but the other part of me is terrified of conservative clergy. I’m having a very hard time differentiating what is peoples opinions and what is the actual teaching of the Church.

I suggest you obtain a hard-copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. The doctrines of the Church are explained there in summary form. From there, you can dig in to specific doctrines in more detail if you do not understand them.

I read somewhere that if a Catholic votes for a politician that is not pro-life that they are automatically excommunicated. Is that how it is?

I don’t where you “read” this, but it is not true. Canon Law governs excommunication and that is not one of the items for which one is automatically excommunicated.

It is gravely sinful to support abortion and to enable abortion.

 

[Ron_Conte]

This has become a stumbling block for me. Part of me is really interested in becoming Catholic because a lot of the theology makes sense, but the other part of me is terrified of conservative clergy. I’m having a very hard time differentiating what is peoples opinions and what is the actual teaching of the Church.

I read somewhere that if a Catholic votes for a politician that is not pro-life that they are automatically excommunicated. Is that how it is?

To be Catholic, you have to put the teaching of the Church above what makes sense to you. So you cannot be liberal or conservative whenever the Church has a clear teaching on any point.

No, it is not true that voting for a pro-abortion politician causes excommunication. The USCCB and some individual Bishops have clearly stated that, under some conditions, a Catholic may licitly vote for a pro-abortion politician. The most common situation would be when both candidates are pro-abortion, one may vote so as to do the most good and least harm.

 

[Lisa44]

I second this. Although I would love for you to embrace the truth of the Catholic faith, I feel that the Episcopal faith would be easier for you to accept because it is far more liberal than the Catholic faith. Make no mistake, being Catholic in the modern world is extremely difficult. We are different than the rest of society and are held to a far greater moral standard. Our beliefs are offensive to many people. However, our doctrines and beliefs will never change. Liberal theologians and clergy have tried to change the faith over the last forty years but they have failed. The Church will never compromise with the modern worldview. If you hold “liberal” views, you will find the Catholic faith difficult to embrace. However, I encourage you to re-examine your beliefs and pray to God for guidance.

Good answer

 

[lizaanne]

The Episcopal Church might be more appropriate for you. It has a ‘high-church’ component, which might satisfy your desire for Catholicism.

The Episcopal Church does not hold the fullness of Truth, nor do they have Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. I don’t feel that pointing anyone toward anything less that what Christ intended (His One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church - the Catholic Church) is extremely irresponsible.

If someone has issues with the Catholic Church they need to change their understanding and acceptance to conform to the Truth - not just find a shoe that fits.

~Liza

 

[yellowbird]

.

If someone has issues with the Catholic Church they need to change their understanding and acceptance to conform to the Truth - not just find a shoe that fits.

~Liza

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

One may not vote for a pro-choice politician for the purposes of supporting the pro-life platform.

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI

“A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion, if he were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of the candidate’s permissive stand on abortion and/or euthanasia,”

“When a Catholic does not share a candidate’s stand in favor of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons.”

Where Catholics will disagree is the “presence of proportionate reasons.” This disagreement even exists between the clergy. Personally, I am not going to presuppose myself to know which clergy is correct and which is not. They have all dedicated their lives to Christ’s Church and His service and it’s not for me, or us, to judge their errors, or if any exists.

I personally, would not recommend any other Church to people than the Church Christ Himself started. I would feel a “cooperation” of misdirecting someone into a “Protestant” belief, which I think a lot of people choose simply because they are seeking a Church with doctrines to fit their own lifestyle. This is more fitting God to ourselves, than obedience to God, in my opinion.

There are doctrines in the Episcopal Church that are rejected and would not be allowed from the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. (e.g. women priests, gay bishops united in a “union” with a partner)

Clergy are men and men are sinners and fallible in their decisions. No Church is free of this. Catholics believe when the Pope speaks ex cathreda on matters of faith and morals, he speaks under the protection of the Holy Spirit.

Politics are of men and of this world. The Church is of Christ and eternity. There is a distinction between Church and state. The Holy Father addressed this distinction two days ago.

Vatican City, Dec 15, 2008 / 05:44 pm (CNA).- In his visit on Saturday morning to the Italian Embassy to the Holy See, Pope Benedict XVI noted that not only does the Church see the distinction between Church and State as important, but she considers it to be a “great progress for humanity.”

Meeting with representatives of the diplomatic corps to the Holy See, the Holy Father reaffirmed that the Church "is very aware that the distinction between what belongs to Caesar and what belongs to God, that is to say, the distinction between State and Church, is a part of the fundamental structure of Christianity,” he explained.

Not only does the Church acknowledge this distinction, the Pontiff continued, but she considers it to be a “great progress for humanity and a fundamental condition for its freedom and for fulfilling its universal mission of salvation among the peoples."

"At the same time, the Church feels the duty,” he went on, “of reawakening moral and spiritual forces in society, helping to make the will receptive to the demands of what is good.”

It is because of this that when the Church “recalls the value that fundamental ethical principles have” for private and public life, “she is in fact contributing to the guarantee and promotion of the dignity of the person and the well-being of society. In this sense, the Church “fulfills the true and proper co-operation that is sought between the State and Church,” he concluded.

I would suggest praying for the gifts of the Holy Spirit for guidance and would recommend you speak to the clergy and realize, there is nothing to be terrified of in speaking with the clergy. Another poster recommended you get a copy of the Catechism and it would be a great help to you, as well as reading scriptures.

If you want to read how to apply Christian values to politics as a layperson, here’s a Church Document, from the Vatican, that might help you.

[CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

DOCTRINAL NOTE
on some questions regarding
The Participation of Catholics in Political Life](http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...s/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20021124_politica_en.html)

 

[pentecostbaby]

I second this. Although I would love for you to embrace the truth of the Catholic faith, I feel that the Episcopal faith would be easier for you to accept because it is far more liberal than the Catholic faith.

Eeeek! Y’all are basically saying that my husband and I, who are faithful Catholics, should have been Episcopalian?!!

You need to start where you are, not where people wish you were. As a fairly liberal Catholic on social issues (poverty, environment, the war in Iraq), and someone who’s freaked out by hardcore conservatives as a general principle, I can tell you that I was totally accepted when I rejoined the Church.

Certainly, at that point, I had opinions that didn’t hold water with what the Church taught. But God, in His infinite goodness and (most importantly) mercy, met me where I was. I’ve changed some of my beliefs (particularly on abortion), and struggle very hard with other. God will make up for what you lack. You just need to take the plunge and keep praying.

Don’t let fear keep you from the Church. God will show you what you need to do. He has a way of doing that .

 

[JDaniel]

Hi all!

This has become a stumbling block for me. Part of me is really interested in becoming Catholic because a lot of the theology makes sense, but the other part of me is terrified of conservative clergy. I’m having a very hard time differentiating what is peoples opinions and what is the actual teaching of the Church.

I read somewhere that if a Catholic votes for a politician that is not pro-life that they are automatically excommunicated. Is that how it is?

Hello, DOUBTFIRE:

The position of the Catholic Church is: if you have the knowledge and information that voting for a pro-abortion candidate is a grave sin, and there are two candidates to vote for, and one candidate is against abortion while the other is not - you must vote for the anti-abortion candidate. Doing otherwise causes immediate, and without notice, excommunication. You would then have to go through the steps to regain communication, starting with a priest.

The problem we had in the past election, is that many Catholics (and Christians) actually did not know that Obama was pro-abortion and subsequently voted for him on other issues. We are expected to do all that is reasonably possible to get answers to such important questions, but, the president-elect played it very smart. From his statements, many folks did not realize that he was pro-abortion. Hence, a number of Catholics voted for him.

If a Catholic is honestly ignorant (the Church calls this invincible ignorance), at voting time, then a vote for the pro-abortion candidate would not result in self-induced, immediate excommunication, and no sin would have been commited.

It would be prudent, once you found out that you had voted incorrectly, that you vow to do more to find out about a candidate and this issue for future elections, and not vote wrongly again.

This was the common statement of belief from the letters that our American Bishops stated in letters prior to the election, letters that were to be read to each priest’s congregation. I believe those letters might still exist somewhere on CAF.

Merry Christmas and
God Bless,
JD

 

[rwoehmke]

Please define what you mean by “liberal.” To me, liberal means that you support abortion, homosexuality, homosexual marriage and homosexual adoption. The Catholic Church teaches that acting on homosexual desires is sinful; it teaches that marriage is solely between men and women, and that children should only be raised in the traditional family setting. You cannot support abortion, and you should be aware that it is considered sinful to use any form of artificial birth control.

The Catholic Church is a “conservative” institution in that it teaches, defends, and promotes traditional morality and ethics.
Becoming Catholic is not an easy decision for anyone to make. You really have to decide whether you agree with everything that the Church teaches.

The list of absolute moral no no’s listed above have been taught since almost day one of the founding of the Catholic Church by Jesus Christ. They will not change. If these strictures on certain human behaviors are unacceptable, then joining the Catholic Church would pose quite a problem for anyone wanting to join us.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

One may not vote for a pro-choice politician for the purposes of supporting the pro-choice platform.

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI

“A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion, if he were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of the candidate’s permissive stand on abortion and/or euthanasia,”

I had inadvertently misquoted a thought, which I have bolded and underlined for emphasis showing the corrected statement above. I realized my error after the time limitation to edit had passed.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

The link to the document below explains all the considerations one must take as a Catholic’s participation in political life.

[CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

DOCTRINAL NOTE
on some questions regarding
The Participation of Catholics in Political Life](http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...s/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20021124_politica_en.html)

When political activity comes up against moral principles that do not admit of exception, compromise or derogation, the Catholic commitment becomes more evident and laden with responsibility. In the face of fundamental and inalienable ethical demands, Christians must recognize that what is at stake is the essence of the moral law, which concerns the integral good of the human person. This is the case with laws concerning abortion and euthanasia (not to be confused with the decision to forgo extraordinary treatments, which is morally legitimate). Such laws must defend the basic right to life from conception to natural death. In the same way, it is necessary to recall the duty to respect and protect the rights of the human embryo. Analogously, the family needs to be safeguarded and promoted, based on monogamous marriage between a man and a woman, and protected in its unity and stability in the face of modern laws on divorce: in no way can other forms of cohabitation be placed on the same level as marriage, nor can they receive legal recognition as such. The same is true for the freedom of parents regarding the education of their children; it is an inalienable right recognized also by the Universal Declaration on Human Rights. In the same way, one must consider society’s protection of minors and freedom from modern forms of slavery (drug abuse and prostitution, for example). In addition, there is the right to religious freedom and the development of an economy that is at the service of the human person and of the common good, with respect for social justice, the principles of human solidarity and subsidiarity, according to which «the rights of all individuals, families, and organizations and their practical implementation must be acknowledged».[21] Finally, the question of peace must be mentioned. Certain pacifistic and ideological visions tend at times to secularize the value of peace, while, in other cases, there is the problem of summary ethical judgments which forget the complexity of the issues involved. Peace is always «the work of justice and the effect of charity».[22] It demands the absolute and radical rejection of violence and terrorism and requires a constant and vigilant commitment on the part of all political leaders.

 

[gardenswithkids]

…A Catholic is neither liberal nor conservative, but rather in communion with the teachings of Christ and the only Church He gave to humanity or not. If one is not, and one is protesting one or or more of her teachings, then one is a Protestant, regardless of one’s political beliefs. Many Catholics, today, are politically conservative because the liberal party is so liberal it really gives them no other choice. Ultimately it comes down to do you put your faith in man or your faith in Christ.

:yup:
Many do not understand this. It’s much easier to catagorize people as “liberal” or “conservative”.

Faithful Catholics often align with “conservatives” because of the issue of abortion (and the newer issue of the definition of marriage.) Not every faithful Catholic embraces the tax policies and other social policies of conservative politicians. Some faithful and loyal Catholic bishops sound like liberals when it comes to various social policies regarding care of the poor.

The Church does not tell Catholic who to vote for but teaches us about underlying moral principles that should affect our vote. The killing of the unborn is a* huge* moral issue of our time. Many liberals speak about social justice while ignoring the injustice of abortion.

Yet not every supposedly “conservative” politician embraces the Catholic teachings against abortion and the re-definition of marriage, while some supposedly “liberal” politicians do side with the Catholic church. Many faithful Catholics would welcome a real choice in voting between two pro-life politicians from different parties.

If the original poster wishes to join the Catholic church, I say welcome. We need more pro-life liberals who will stand up against the injustice of abortion.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

:yup:
Many do not understand this. It’s much easier to catagorize people as “liberal” or “conservative”.

Faithful Catholics often align with “conservatives” because of the issue of abortion (and the newer issue of the definition of marriage.) Not every faithful Catholic embraces the tax policies and other social policies of conservative politicians. Some faithful and loyal Catholic bishops sound like liberals when it comes to various social policies regarding care of the poor.

The Church does not tell Catholic who to vote for but teaches us about underlying moral principles that should affect our vote. The killing of the unborn is a* huge* moral issue of our time. Many liberals speak about social justice while ignoring the injustice of abortion.

Yet not every supposedly “conservative” politician embraces the Catholic teachings against abortion and the re-definition of marriage, while some supposedly “liberal” politicians do side with the Catholic church. Many faithful Catholics would welcome a real choice in voting between two pro-life politicians from different parties.

If the original poster wishes to join the Catholic church, I say welcome. We need more pro-life liberals who will stand up against the injustice of abortion.