I'm very liberal, considering Catholicism.

[fbl9]

Murder will continue regardless of the law.

Rape will continue regardless of the law.

Stealing will continue regardless of the law.

Slavery will continue regardless of the law.

There will always be criminals who will disregard the law.

Should we do away with laws because criminals break them?

The statistics are available in many public places. Do the research, how many abortions took place each year before abortion was legal?

for a nation that claims “in God we trust” the U.S.A. is the worst possible arguement for christainity.

 

[Janet_S]

Hi all!

This has become a stumbling block for me. Part of me is really interested in becoming Catholic because a lot of the theology makes sense, but the other part of me is terrified of conservative clergy. I’m having a very hard time differentiating what is peoples opinions and what is the actual teaching of the Church.

I read somewhere that if a Catholic votes for a politician that is not pro-life that they are automatically excommunicated. Is that how it is?

Don’t let your pride get in the way. You might have to change your mind about some things–that’s what conversion is all about. Listen to what the Church has to say with an open mind. Like a wise priest once told me–to every “no” of the Church, there is a bigger “yes.” I’ve found this to be true.

If you are against big government, big business, and materialism and you want to live a simpler life, you should read about “distributism” which is an economic system based on the teachings of Pope Leo XIII and his encyclical Rerum Novarum. Hillaire Belloc, EF Schumacher, and GK Chesterton are some of the authors you might check into.

About the moral issues–abortion, birth control, divorce, homosexuality–these are very hard for those of the liberal persuasion because the Church’s positions are not tolerated at all by the liberal political party in America. Still, it’s worth your while to “struggle” with the Church’s teaching if need be, even if it means going against your favorite political party. Lots of Catholics refuse to change their minds and don’t “struggle” at all. Don’t let politics come before God.

For me, I used to be a Democrat, and I’m not anymore, and I’m very happy that I am not.

 

[RitaM]

for a nation that claims “in God we trust” the U.S.A. is the worst possible arguement for christainity.

…except for all of the other countries. I don’t actually think this country is an example of a Christian nation, although we used to be, but of course not perfectly.

 

[JDaniel]

Saddam Hussein wasn’t an American or a Canadian, and maybe the rules are different in the Third World, but he was certainly pro-life with regard to the unborn and the elderly, but at the same time, he was a war-monger, and he supported torture.

I suppose for him, the distinction was, total protection for innocent life, but absolute ruthlessness against anyone that he perceived as an enemy.

Hello, jmcrae:

Could you please point me to any literature that describes Saddam’s thoughts regarding the unborn? You have made me curious, as it didn’t seem to bother him to kill and main many thousands of baby Kurds in his northern provinces.

I guess one could envision that Tony Soprano, as a “Catholic” (boy, I don’t like the thought of that either!) might have “supported” life and the elderly. If that is how Saddam’s mind operated, then, he was very a very aberrated individual.

Merry Christmas and
God Bless,
JD

 

[fbl9]

…except for all of the other countries. I don’t actually think this country is an example of a Christian nation, although we used to be, but of course not perfectly.

except all other countries don’t print on their money"in God we trust"

 

[JDaniel]

for a nation that claims “in God we trust” the U.S.A. is the worst possible arguement for christainity.

Hello, fbl19:

In what ways?

Merry Christmas and
God Bless,
JD

 

[estesbob]

IIf you think McCain would help to prevent it, then fine, but we just have to admit that it’s a serious question and not to be brushed under the rug. Cases of evils equal to the 1.2 million children killed per year are not, in my mind, as hypothetical as some might like to think; they’re just not talked about too often.
CONT’D →

Uusal McCain is evil talking points noted BUT even if everythng you said was true(which of course it is not) why would that translate into being able to support a man who supports unrestricted taxpayer funded abortion on demand.?

 

[fbl9]

Hello, fbl19:

In what ways?

Merry Christmas and
God Bless,
JD

let’s start with the fact that america is home to one of the largest porn industries.
or the fact that due to american greed and pride that many families in Canada have and stand to lose a large part of their income(this yr alone thanks to your gov’t my family lost 25,000 in income,and there many more that lost even more)

 

[jmcrae]

Hello, jmcrae:

Could you please point me to any literature that describes Saddam’s thoughts regarding the unborn? You have made me curious, as it didn’t seem to bother him to kill and main many thousands of baby Kurds in his northern provinces.

He always said that he was in accord with the Qu’ran with regard to life issues. The Qu’ran forbids abortion, population control, and any sort of disrespect toward the elderly.

But such things apparently didn’t apply to “the enemy,” in Saddam’s mind. This is also the nature of war, though, too - combatants in war become desensitized because they are surrounded by violence, and often end up killing children and other innocent persons, simply because they are in the way.

I am sure we would all be horrified if we found out that our own armies were killing innocent children in war, but I imagine that it must happen, even to our own guys.

 

[estesbob]

for a nation that claims “in God we trust” the U.S.A. is the worst possible arguement for christainity.

Next to the Catholic Church the Untied States has been the greatest force for good in the History of the World. 4 years of an abortion extremist leading the country will not change that

 

[JDaniel]

let’s start with the fact that america is home to one of the largest porn industries.
or the fact that due to american greed and pride that many families in Canada have and stand to lose a large part of their income(this yr alone thanks to your gov’t my family lost 25,000 in income,and there many more that lost even more)

fbl19:

America has long ago made porn illegal. America actively goes after the merchanisers of porn. America prosecutes the distributors of porn. But, with our Constitution in place, America cannot legislate what you watch or think. Nevertheless, you are “beating” America up for the actions of some of its citizens - criminal citizens, at that.

By the way, England has a sizable porn industry, Canada has a sizable porn-bar industry, Russia has a significant porn industry, Albania, etc., etc., etc.

I am not sure how the American government has extracted money from your family, or, how your family lost money to America. Perhaps you could explain this?

Merry Christmas and
God Bless,
JD

 

[RosaryFan]

I second this. Although I would love for you to embrace the truth of the Catholic faith, I feel that the Episcopal faith would be easier for you to accept because it is far more liberal than the Catholic faith. Make no mistake, being Catholic in the modern world is extremely difficult. We are different than the rest of society and are held to a far greater moral standard. Our beliefs are offensive to many people. However, our doctrines and beliefs will never change. Liberal theologians and clergy have tried to change the faith over the last forty years but they have failed. The Church will never compromise with the modern worldview. If you hold “liberal” views, you will find the Catholic faith difficult to embrace. However, I encourage you to re-examine your beliefs and pray to God for guidance.

Great point!! I mean, if God is eternal and all knowing, why would He suddendly decide that things like homosexual relations where acceptable? What kind of god would change his mind?? The fact that the Church holds firm to its beliefs is proof, in my eyes, that it’s the divine will of God at work. Truth and justice do not go out of style or become outdated. The laws of God must remain the same from Adam and Eve until the last man standing. Otherwise, God’s laws wouldn’t be worth the tablets they were written on.

 

[JDaniel]

He always said that he was in accord with the Qu’ran with regard to life issues. The Qu’ran forbids abortion, population control, and any sort of disrespect toward the elderly.

But such things apparently didn’t apply to “the enemy,” in Saddam’s mind. This is also the nature of war, though, too - combatants in war become desensitized because they are surrounded by violence, and often end up killing children and other innocent persons, simply because they are in the way.

I am sure we would all be horrified if we found out that our own armies were killing innocent children in war, but I imagine that it must happen, even to our own guys.

Interesting. but, the Kurds weren’t “enemies”. They were somply recalcitrant subjects! (Isn’t that great! I never thought I’d get to use that word in these fora.)

What is really interesting is what Saddam did for a living before becoming the commissar of Iraq. Then to couple that with being “pro-life”? Hmmm.

Merry Christmas and
God Bless,
JD

 

[fbl9]

fbl19:

America has long ago made porn illegal. America actively goes after the merchanisers of porn. America prosecutes the distributors of porn. But, with our Constitution in place, America cannot legislate what you watch or think. Nevertheless, you are “beating” America up for the actions of some of its citizens - criminal citizens, at that.

By the way, England has a sizable porn industry, Canada has a sizable porn-bar industry, Russia has a significant porn industry, Albania, etc., etc., etc.

I am not sure how the American government has extracted money from your family, or, how your family lost money to America. Perhaps you could explain this?

Merry Christmas and
God Bless,
JD

i guess the publisher of Huslter (etc)are exempt the other “hollywood” is just a figment of everyone’s imagination.
the same way my neighbours in Manitoba are going to lose half of the market for their weanling pigs…by your gov’ts prideful “country of origin lableing” policy…
how much has your country cost my country’s farmers through the mindless legal action taken against the CWB,which when was over found that the american’s didn’t have a leg to stand on.
i am done ranting you guys are the best,yeah right.

 

[estesbob]

let’s start with the fact that america is home to one of the largest porn industries.
or the fact that due to american greed and pride that many families in Canada have and stand to lose a large part of their income(this yr alone thanks to your gov’t my family lost 25,000 in income,and there many more that lost even more)

So US Govt policies have been providing you family $25,000 a year and you are mad at them?. To be honest canada has not provided me with one thin dime(although i do a couple of candians US tax returns every year,

 

[Catholicc]

Hi all!

This has become a stumbling block for me. Part of me is really interested in becoming Catholic because a lot of the theology makes sense, but the other part of me is terrified of conservative clergy. I’m having a very hard time differentiating what is peoples opinions and what is the actual teaching of the Church.

I read somewhere that if a Catholic votes for a politician that is not pro-life that they are automatically excommunicated. Is that how it is?

One does not accept Catholicsm because it agrees with our opinions. Quite the opposite: One has faith in Christ and His Church and surrenders his/her worldy ideas in order to accept the teachings of the Church. This can be difficult, and requires sacrafice and a willingness to accept that our previous ideas may have been wrong. But that is what Christianity is all about. There is no ressurection without the cross.

The Magisterium is neither conservative nor liberal: It preserves and hands on the teachings of Christ, without error…Many Christians truths are “conservative”, such as the evil of abortion and the wrongness of same-sex sex. Many Christians truths are “liberal”, such as care for the poor and peace among nations. One single label cannot encompass Catholic morality, but one must accept ALL of it.

Catholicism is not a smorgasborg religion where you can pick and choose what you like (the way some Catholic politicians do, to their own detriment) and discard the rest. Catholicism is a commitment, a way of life, a set of beliefs. You must have faith, accept them and believe them. Only then will you truly be free.

 

[fbl9]

So US Govt policies have been providing you family $25,000 a year and you are mad at them?. To be honest canada has not provided me with one thin dime(although i do a couple of candians US tax returns every year,

take off the red/white and blue blinders dude and read what i have told you… your gov’t cost my family and many others this amount this yr and many more yrs to come.it is ammerican policies that have kept Canada from being the proud nation it should have been…
free trade=american’s take productsm Canada for free

 

[PJM]

Hi all!

This has become a stumbling block for me. Part of me is really interested in becoming Catholic because a lot of the theology makes sense, but the other part of me is terrified of conservative clergy. I’m having a very hard time differentiating what is peoples opinions and what is the actual teaching of the Church.

I read somewhere that if a Catholic votes for a politician that is not pro-life that they are automatically excommunicated. Is that how it is?

Reply:

Wecome!

First you should know that here in America we have a “church” inside “The Church.” (The only Church actually founded by Jesus Christ Himself!)

There continues to be a great many catholics (small “c”) who practice their faith as if they can somehow pick and choose what they will accept and what if anything they will practice. They are Catholics in name only, and are likely no closer to getting to Heaven than the Mormons. (Who are not Christian.) Avoid them!

To answer your querry about excommunication because of a voting choice.

If, and only IF, an informed practcing Roman Catholic, knowing in advance the position of the RCC regards this matter, still choose freely to exercise there “American rights” to vote as they chose to, knowing and understanding that that the candidate was/ is an advocate of legalized death and killing of healthy innocent babies, in favor of some other social or ecconomic issue, that would not be “equal too” the gravity of Abortion, they would commit a Mortal Sin, which would seperate them from the Sacraments (Except Confession) and actually seperate them from the Catholic Community until they repented, Confessed and received Absolutation from a priest.

For the record no other “proportionant” issue exist! If we are dead, what else matters?

A priest generally cannot excomunicate anyone, however a bishop given certain circumstances, and the power of his office could in very specific cases, obstanance, contiued public disobedience, and a unwillingness to adhere to RCC doctrine, could have such a consequence, after having been conseled and warned,

The Catholic Church cannot (not will not) change her doctrinal or dogmatic practices.

God placed us here on earth to prove to God that we love Him, more than we love ourselves! It is not always easy, but it is alway’s possible with God’s help! “If you wish to come after me, take up your Cross and follow me.” Mt. 16:24

God bless you, pray, pray, pray,

Merry Christmas!

PJM m.c.

We informed, practcing Roman Catholics can answer all of your specific questions and querry’s. From the “Infallibility of Peter” (and all Popes) on defined matters of Faith and Morals, to the Blessed Vigin Mary, Mother of God, and what ever else you may have questions about.

God has led you the the source, it’s up to you to prayerfully ask what you will. Know however that not everyone on this site is a “informed, practcing Roman Catholic.” Seek us out we are anxious to be of assistance.

God bless you,
Merry Christmas!

PJM m.c.

 

[TMC]

No, that is not true. The pope did not say that. What the pope said was that when faced with two candidates who are both pro-abortion, one may vote for a candidate based on other issues or for the one who is less pro-abortion. The USCCB echoed that.

If there is one candidate who supports abortion and one who opposes it, then Catholics CANNOT, in good conscience, vote for the pro-abortion candidate. Saying that you didn’t vote for them because of their pro-abortion views and that it was for other reasons is a cop-out because they are are trying to rationalize voting for someone who supports the destruction of innocent human life.

In Christ,
Rand

This is oft-repeated, but simply untrue. The Pope has never said that one can vote for a pro-abortion candidate only if the other candidate is equally or more pro-abortion.

As Prefect for the Congregation of Faith, then-Cardinal Ratzinger sent a letter to the US Bishops discussing politicians that advocate policies that are against Church teaching. In a footnote to that letter, he noted that “When a Catholic does not share a candidate’s stand in favour of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons.” The Cardinal did not say that a Catholic must always vote based on the candidate’s stand on abortion, and neither did the USCCB.

 

[Ender]

In a footnote to that letter, he noted that “When a Catholic does not share a candidate’s stand in favour of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons.” The Cardinal did not say that a Catholic must always vote based on the candidate’s stand on abortion, and neither did the USCCB.

You are correct as far as you go. The caveat in Ratzinger’s statement is that there must be a proportionate reason for supporting someone who favors abortion and it is the arguments supporting ones views on what constitutes a proportionate reason that come across as more rationalized than rational.

Ender