Immaculate Conception and HDO in general

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nfinke

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This topic has been brought up before but I have a slightly different question.

My first question, which was supposed to be answered in those other threads but I couldnt find, is why is the Immaculate Conception of Mary a holy day of obligation, while the Annunciation is not? Again this has been asked before but its my understanding that Mary didnt even need to be born without sin to fill her role, thats just how God decided to do it. So while her immaculate conception is a fact, and even a very interesting fact, I dont think it even comes near the annunciation, which is really the most significant thing Mary did, if you see the birth of christ as a natural consequence of the annunciation.

But the bigger question this brings up is how does the Church decide on any holy days of obligation? obviously people have had holidays forever, and feast days where they celebrate certain things, so that Isnt unusual at all. But for the church to pick certain days where our obligation to go to Mass equals the obligation given by God Himself in the ten commandments seems pretty drastic to me, as theres a big difference between “lets remember and honor the conception of Mary today” and “you need to go to Mass this wednesday to honor Mary’s conception or your soul will actually be in peril.”

where/when did the Church decide they had the ability to essentially create new Sundays throughout the year, and how do they make a decision such as “Yes, the IC needs to be a day of obligation, but the feast of the Annunciation can just stay a regular solemnity.”

Does the Pope need to weigh in on a decision like that? How often do they add new ones?
 
nfinke said:
Again this has been asked before but its my understanding that Mary didnt even need to be born without sin to fill her role, thats just how God decided to do it. So while her immaculate conception is a fact, and even a very interesting fact,
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This is problematic thinking. The Immaculate Conception was part of God’s divine plan, not just an extra thing tossed in that did not matter.

Study the requirements for the Ark of the Covenant, then think of the Ark who would carry the Incarnate God in her womb. That vessel could not be touched by the stain of sin. Without the Immaculate Conception, God is not born of the Virgin Mary.

Holy Days of Obligation are one of our beautiful Traditions. The Bishops can choose to remove the Obligation from some Holy Days.

Assumption is a Holy Day of Obligation unless your Bishop has made a decision for his Diocese:

 
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First of all, your question is only pertaining to the Latin Church, because in the Byzantine Catholic and maybe some other Eastern Catholic Churches, I understand the Annunciation is their equivalent of an HDO in the Latin Church. I further understand that they focus more on Jesus’ conception than on Mary for that day.

Second, the Annunciation has the rank of Solemnity in the Latin Church. That means it is a feast day of the highest rank, whether or not it is a Holy Day of Obligation. Holy Days of Obligation do not rank higher than solemnities that are not Holy Days of Obligation.

Third, HDOs are designated partly based on practical and prudential concerns. There used to be 36 Holy Days of Obligation, which were reduced by Pope Pius X (beloved of traditionalists) to only 8, partly because the practical issues of having 36 were already recognized by many bishops who had waived some of them for their dioceses. The number of HDOs was later increased to 10. If you look at the current group of universal HDOs, there are 4 that focus on Jesus, 3 that focus on Mary, and 3 that focus on other saints. This seems like a reasonable selection.

Fourth, we are always free to observe and attend Mass on any Solemnity regardless of whether it’s an HDO. Many countries have very few HDOs because most of the 10 Universal ones are waived by the bishops. People who truly want to celebrate a solemnity shouldn’t need the Church telling them “You must go to Mass on this day” - rather, if they can go to Mass then they’ll go.
 
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I appreaciate all the info, but my questions werent actually addressed here.

I know technically all solemnities are of the same “rank”, but when your bishop or the Pope tells you you are expected to go to mass on this solemnity, that does make it seem more important than another solemnity, even if just in the mind of the general leity.

And I know people shouldnt need the church telling them they need to go to mass on this day to celebrate, but the church does do that for certain feast, but not for the vast majority of them. so Im just trying to figure out what credentials the immaculate conception or the assumption met for being made a HDO that the Annunciation didnt meet?
 
Saint Pope Pius X reduced the number of them that were not on Sunday to eight from thirty-six, in 1911, for the Latin church.


Eastern Catholic churches may or may not observe the Feast of the Annunciation as obligatory, but have the following five listed as universal:
(CCEO) Can. 880 §3. Holy days of obligation common to all the Eastern Churches, beyond Sundays, are the Nativity of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Epiphany, the Ascension, the Dormition of the Holy Mary Mother of God and the Holy Apostles Peter and Paul except for the particular law of a Church sui iuris approved by the Apostolic See which suppresses a holy days of obligation or transfers them to a Sunday.
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Do we know what criteria he used to decide which 26 days to cross off the list? Why did the immaculate conception meet that criteria and the annunciation did not? Im obviously just a layperson, but if I was choosing the ones to keep, the Annunciation might have been second only to Christmas.
 
Can. 1246 §1. Sunday, on which by apostolic tradition the paschal mystery is celebrated, must be observed in the universal Church as the primordial holy day of obligation. The following days must also be observed: the Nativity of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Epiphany, the Ascension, the Body and Blood of Christ, Holy Mary the Mother of God, her Immaculate Conception, her Assumption, Saint Joseph, Saint Peter and Saint Paul the Apostles, and All Saints.

§2. With the prior approval of the Apostolic See, however, the conference of bishops can suppress some of the holy days of obligation or transfer them to a Sunday.
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In addition, Bishops conferences can choose other holy days within their jurisdiction. Mexico celebrates the Virgin of Guadalupe in a few days, and Malta celebrates the Shipwreck of St Paul on Malta. A list is available at Wikipedia.

The Immaculate Conception celebrates the overturning of original sin by the grace of God. It is probably made into an HDO at around the same time as it was declared a dogma, 1854. The US Bishops adopted it as the patronal feast for the USA around that time as well.

While the Annunciation seems like the proper time for this celebration, it is problematic for practical reasons. March 25 can fall on Good Friday, which displaces the Annunciation to April 4. That places the holiday in proper relation to Easter, but it creates confusion about its importance. This is not an overwhelming problem, but it does make it difficult to promote it.

There is a theological issue. Mary’s affirmation at the Annunciation is not what earned her liberation from sin; that was accomplished by a free gift from God at the first moment of her existence. The Immaculate Conception is a better date because we do not earn salvation, but receive it as a free gift at Baptism, even though the IC and Annunciation are similar.

I am not sure that makes sense, or that it is right, just some thoughts on the question.
 
nfinke said:
when your bishop or the Pope tells you you are expected to go to mass on this solemnity, that does make it seem more important than another solemnity, even if just in the mind of the general leity.
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This falls in the same category as “I feel…” Feelings, or wrong impressions, don’t govern here.

The reality is, all solemnities are the same rank. If some layperson wants to get a wrong idea in their head, all I can say is it wouldn’t be the first time.

Furthermore, in many countries, most of those HDOs are waived, and in many dioceses some are also transferred to Sunday, so that a person only needs to attend church on a couple of HDO weekdays. That might lead some laypersons to think the ones that are waived or transferred to Sunday are “less important” than the one we have to attend on a weekday. Again, this is all in somebody’s head. A solemnity is a solemnity.
 
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From the Catholic Encylopedia article it was: “high cost of living and to the necessity of caring in due season for crops, fruits, etc.,” and for “effecting greater uniformity” since the Church discipline “has tended to lessen the number of Holy Days in certain countries”. It was a similar concern that allowed for the fulfillment of the Mass obligation on the eve of the calendar day before a feast (Eucharisticum Mysterium, May 25, 1967, 28. Anticipating the Sunday and Feast Day Masses on the Previous Evening).
 
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this is interesting about the dates. I guess I assumed if we chose to make the annunciation a HDO we would move the date. I forgot that it is on a specific date in relation to Christmas for a reason. I suppose that would cause issues in the calendar.

it is neat that they celebrate Pauls shipwreck on Malta, I like that alot haha.
 
Vico said:
From the Catholic Encylopedia article it was: “high cost of living and to the necessity of caring in due season for crops, fruits, etc.,” and for “effecting greater uniformity” since the Church discipline “has tended to lessen the number of Holy Days in certain countries”.
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Yes, let’s not forget that a lot of people have to travel a distance to go to Mass and it’s not always a simple matter of a 15-minute drive in the car on a good road. And a lot of priests likewise have to travel a distance to say Masses at multiple parishes, sometimes without the benefit of cars or good roads. The Masses also have to be said at times when people can actually attend them.
 
you guys seem to be missing the point of what Im asking here.

I understand why they reduced the number of HDOs in general.

So the Pope decided the number of HDOs needed to be greatly reduced, but clearly he didnt just choose 26 at random to remove the distinction from. He had to has used some sort of reasoning to decide that the feast of St. Joseph should stay a HDO, but lets say the feast of St. John needs to be crossed off the list. Im asking if we know the criteria used to put them on the list over time, and the criteria used to cross off that large bunch all at once.

Also I get solemnities are technically all of equal rank, that doesnt mean they are all of equal importance. I really cant think of a coherent way to say “this feast day feel free to celebrate or not at your discretion, but this feast day you need to go to mass or you could possibly go to hell for eternity. But these two days are equally important.” Unless the church is just arbitrarily saying that we are required to go to mass on those days, there is added importance given to them just by definition, even if they arent granted a higher title such as “super solemnity” or something. If there is some reasoning against that I dont see it.
 
The Annunciation is not a Marian feast. It’s a feast of Our Lord.

When selecting HDOs, there are feasts of the Lord, Marian feasts, and feasts of the Saints to select from.

So, as feasts of our Lord go, Annunciation isn’t among those selected which are Christmas, Epiphany, the Ascension, and Corpus Christi.

There hasn’t been a reason given that I am aware of.
 
nfinke said:
So the Pope decided the number of HDOs needed to be greatly reduced, but clearly he didnt just choose 26 at random to remove the distinction from. He had to has used some sort of reasoning
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A past thread on CAF that lists all the previous 36 days also states that before Pope Pius X even got around to winnowing down the universal list, many individual countries had already shortened the list quite a bit through the bishop’s authority, so that for example, Canada had 6 days, USA had 6 days, and UK and Ireland had between 8 and 13 days. Other countries likely did the same. The Pope likely took into account which days were still observed in the most places when making up his list.

Also, some of the 36 days were octave days, and those were likely eliminated because one had already had the HDO for the solemnity itself and didn’t need another HDO for the octave.

Finally, it appears the number of saints’ days were greatly cut back, which makes sense given that “All Saints” would include all of them.
 
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In ancient times, no feasts were celebrated in Lent so the Annunciation generally was not, given the date of March 25 was generally accepted as correct. Later, Annunciation became a Holy Day of Obligation in the universal Church.

In general, as the CE article cited above notes, due to rising costs of living and the need to care for crops, etc. some places began to locally reduce the number of HDOs. For example, the USA dropped the Annunciation and a bunch of others at the Third Council of Baltimore in 1884.

St. Pius X, in the 1911 motu propio, Supremi disciplinae, essentially extended the reduction to the universal Church’s general law (reducing the number from 36 to 8). The current list–with the exception of the Circumcision instead of the Solemnity of Mary, Mother of God–was instituted with the promulgation of the 1917 Code of Canon Law.

I’m guessing the Annunciation was dropped due to being in Lent and/or near Easter.
 
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THe other issue i did not think of earlier, is that the calendar for Rome is the basis for everyone’s calendar.

The following are offered to try and convey some of thinking behind the calendars. The first discusses the ranking system proposed by Pius X just before he revised the calendar.


This is roughly the calendar before Pius X:


This is roughly the calendar after Pius X:


I do not know if any of this will help you. My eyes glaze over when I see semidoubles and double-doubles and the rest. I do not think they will answer your question, though the IC was more important after Pius X because it had “a common octave” but both Annunciation and IC were Doubles of the I class.
 
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When a future conclave goes positively nuts and elects me Pope, one of the first things I’m going to have on my “first 30 days list” is to make the Annunciation (25 March) a Holy Day of Obligation, never derogated, never transferred, never subject to indult in any diocese.

This is the day on which Our Lord was made flesh, and on which, we may piously grant, His Divine Soul entered that Body. This is when He came to us, not nine months later. In fact, I’ve always viewed Christmas (the Nativity) as being kind of anticlimactic — “didn’t the real miracle happen nine months before?”. I’d even like to see it become a family holiday, with gifts given, special dinner prepared, and of course, days off work. (And, yes, I’d lift any Lenten restrictions such as fast and abstinence on that day, and possibly even the day after.)

Making the Annunciation an HDO would be a ringing affirmation of life beginning at conception, and a stinging rebuke to all of the “pro-choice” people in the world, for the best possible reason.
 
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OP, I think there is a simpler answer to your question.

The reason the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary is a Holy Day of Obligation in every diocese in the USA is because officially Mary was chosen as patron saint of the United States as the Immaculate Conception. Just as Mary is patron saint of México as the Virgin of Guadalupe.

Every bishop has the authority to choose (or change) which solemnities or feasts will be Holy Days of Obligation. EXCEPT- Christmas, the Nativity of the Lord, AND any that his national bishops’ conference has chosen to be mandatory-like for the nation’s patronal saint in this case. For example, in the Archdiocese of Honolulu, there are only TWO Holy Days of Obligation, the two mentioned here.

A bishop can also choose to move the celebration of feasts and solemnities to Sunday (as most of the US celebrates the Ascension and Corpus Christi on Sundays) except for Christmas Dec. 25, and Mary, Mother of God ends the Octave of the Nativity. A national bishops conference can decide which Holy Days of Obligation may be abrogated when they fall on a Saturday or a Monday. In the US that is all of them except Christmas, and our patron saint’s day: the Immaculate Conception.

As to which day is more important, the Anunciation or the Immaculate Conception… all the solemnities are important.
But think of this: why do you think Mary was sure to give her fiat “…be it done to me according to thy word.” ? Maybe because without any sin, she was certain to follow God’s will.
Who was the other woman who was created/concieved without the stain of Original Sin? Eve chose her own will, Mary conformed her will to God’s.
 
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HomeschoolDad said:
This is the day on which Our Lord was made flesh, and on which, we may piously grant, His Divine Soul entered that Body. This is when He came to us, not nine months later. In fact, I’ve always viewed Christmas (the Nativity) as being kind of anticlimactic — “didn’t the real miracle happen nine months before?”.
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I have thought this before as well. I also think it would help a lot if we were expected to go to mass on that day and hear the story told every year. I (and Im sure many other people) didnt learn until i was an adult that Jesus’ conception even happened at the annunciation. Hearing it preached once a year would help, though its the problem of bad catachesis more generally.
 
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