Immaculate Conception - Dec 8

[LilyM]

My opinion here is go to Maqss Saturday evening and then again Sunday morning. As a personal pius act. Since you must work and are unable to attend because of this and there are no Holy Day Vigil Masses available you don’t have an obligation for the Holy day. The Feast of the Immaculate Conception like a few other Holy Day Feasts is never moved or abrogated no matter what day it falls on.

True - if you have unavoidable work or other important obligations on the Friday and Saturday and can’t get to any of the available Masses as a result, then there is no obligation for you. But it would be a great gesture, as Br Rich says, to go on Saturday vigil anyway, and then again on Sunday, if you can. I’m sure Our Lady would appreciate the gesture

 

[Pug]

The Feast of the Immaculate Conception like a few other Holy Day Feasts is never moved or abrogated no matter what day it falls on.

I did not know this. Does this mean that if Dec 8 is on a Sunday, that it takes over the second Sunday of Advent? I don’t ever remember this happening before, though.

Which exact holy days are never moved, transferred, abrogated, etc? I know Christmas is always Christmas, no matter what, but I also seem to recall that All Saints seems to not be obligatory if it is on a Monday, I believe. What is the full set of rules?

 

[NetNuncio]

Sunday is a kind of “Superday”, being longer, liturgically than any other. Harkening back to our Jewish roots, Sunday begins at the liturgical sundown of Saturday, that being First Vespers of Sunday, which occur around 4:30 or 5PM.

So, the reason the Vigil on Saturday doesn’t count for Immaculate Conception is because it is no longer the Immaculate Conception…it’s the Second Sunday of Advent.

 

[Pug]

Check with your church, there is probably a Friday Vigil Mass for the Immaculate Conception.

I have already checked and we have none. That is quite unusual. I don’t ever remember this happening before. That’s why I’m phoning the nearest parish (besides mine ) on Monday to see if they have a mass on Friday evening.

 

[estesbob]

Sunday is a kind of “Superday”, being longer, liturgically than any other. Harkening back to our Jewish roots, Sunday begins at the liturgical sundown of Saturday, that being First Vespers of Sunday, which occur around 4:30 or 5PM.

So, the reason the Vigil on Saturday doesn’t count for Immaculate Conception is because it is no longer the Immaculate Conception…it’s the Second Sunday of Advent.

There are several feasts that do replace Sunday but the Immacualte Conception is not one of them

 

[puzzleannie]

Oh, and yes, Dec 8 is not abrogated this year in my diocese, of that I’m sure. I already checked that out. My curiosity had been peaked because our parish only has one mass for it and we usually have 4, so I wondered what was up with that.

Any thoughts on that Canon?

not anywhere this is one that cannot be moved, do your best, like any other situation where there is an overriding reason to miss Mass, you would have no obligation. If there is a Mass offered when you do not work within a reasonable distance, you must do your best to go there, and if you can take time off work without penalty you should do it.

 

[AlexV]

It can indeed be moved. In years when it falls on Sunday in the USA it is moved to the 9th and the obligation removed.

 

[benedictgal]

I did not know this. Does this mean that if Dec 8 is on a Sunday, that it takes over the second Sunday of Advent? I don’t ever remember this happening before, though.

Which exact holy days are never moved, transferred, abrogated, etc? I know Christmas is always Christmas, no matter what, but I also seem to recall that All Saints seems to not be obligatory if it is on a Monday, I believe. What is the full set of rules?

I don’t have the full set of rules; however, when December 8th falls on a Sunday, the feast is moved, “translated”, if you will, to Monday. In other words, the Feast Day would then be obligatory on December 9th.

You see, because December 8th falls right smack dab in the middle of Advent, the penitential season takes precedence over everything else.

Now, in the United States, because the Feast of the Immaculate Conception is the patronal solemnity of our country, it remains a Holy Day of Obligation. This is true, and, Brother Rich, correct me if I’m wrong, even when it is moved to December 9th. In Mexico, the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe is a Holy Day of Obligation. I believe, however, that the same rule applies whenever December 12th falls on a Sunday. Oddly enough, in my neck of the woods, both Marian feasts are heavily attended. The latter feast is important to my diocese, as OLG is our co-patron.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I did not know this. Does this mean that if Dec 8 is on a Sunday, that it takes over the second Sunday of Advent? I don’t ever remember this happening before, though.

Which exact holy days are never moved, transferred, abrogated, etc? I know Christmas is always Christmas, no matter what, but I also seem to recall that All Saints seems to not be obligatory if it is on a Monday, I believe. What is the full set of rules?

I’m doing this off the top of my head but Sundays in Ordinary Time can be replaced by certain Feasts. You have to look at the calendar and see what Holy days fall in Ordinary Time. Those Holy Days would be celebrated instead of the Mass for the Sunday in Ordinary Time. I also believe that if The Immaculate Conception were to fall on a Sunday it would be celebrated in the Americas instead of the Sunday in Advent because Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception is the parton of the Americas. I might be wrong on that and accept any correction, since I’m not actually looking it up.

 

[benedictgal]

I’m doing this off the top of my head but Sundays in Ordinary Time can be replaced by certain Feasts. You have to look at the calendar and see what Holy days fall in Ordinary Time. Those Holy Days would be celebrated instead of the Mass for the Sunday in Ordinary Time. I also believe that if The Immaculate Conception were to fall on a Sunday it would be celebrated in the Americas instead of the Sunday in Advent because Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception is the parton of the Americas. I might be wrong on that and accept any correction, since I’m not actually looking it up.

When December 8th falls on a Sunday during Advent, the feast is moved, “translated”, if you will, to Monday, December 9th. Even though December 9th is the Feast of St. Juan Diego, the Immaculate Conception takes precedence.

Nonetheless, because the Feast of the Immaculate Conception is the patronal day for the United States, I believe that the obligation remains. Although, for obvious reasons, the Vigil for the Feast cannot be celebrated Sunday evening. I think the only exception is when December 24th falls on a Sunday, like it did last year.

This is also similar to when the Feast of the Annunciation falls on a Sunday during Lent or during Holy Week. If it’s on a Lenten Sunday, the feast is moved to Monday. If it falls during Holy Week, it is moved to Easter week. Penitential Sundays (Advent and Lent) trump solemnities, I think. A few years ago, the USCCB issued a statement concerning the feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe, when December 12th fell on a Sunday. The ruling was that the feast had to be translated to Monday, December 13th. It upset quite a few people, but, the USCCB said that it had to be consistent with what the procedure is when December 8th falls on a Sunday.

Brother Rich, you are right about Sundays in

Ordinary Time

, since, for example, the Feasts of the Assumption and All Saints Day take precendence. Even the Solemnity of Saints Peter and Paul and the Birth of St. John the Baptist, also take precendence over Sundays in Ordinary Time (we had that this year on June 24th). Dioceses, parishes and religious communities can also substitute their patronal feasts when they fall on Sundays. The Paulists do that for the Conversion of St. Paul when the feast fallls on a Sunday. However, they do need a dispensation, I think.

 

[tradcathconvert]

At the Cathedral where we have our TLM, Friday night there will be a Vigil Mass of the Immaculate Conception with the bishop. The Extraordinary Mass for the Feast will be at 8:00 am Saturday. The other Ordinary Mass will be at 10:00.
The Satuday night Mass will be the usual Mass of Anticipation for Sunday.

 

[FelixRoma]

My priest made no mention of the feast this weekend.

I asked him about it privately, and he said it would not be celebrated because this year it is not a holy day of obligation.

Is this true? What should I do?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

My priest made no mention of the feast this weekend.

I asked him about it privately, and he said it would not be celebrated because this year it is not a holy day of obligation.

Is this true? What should I do?

Your priest was wrong. Find a parish if possible, to attend Mass on Friday evening or Saturday Morning. Then attend Mass at your parish on Sunday.

If you can’t find a Mass for the Immaculate Conception, don’t worry about it. Its not your fault but the fault of misinformed pastors in your dioceses.

Jim

 

[benedictgal]

My priest made no mention of the feast this weekend.

I asked him about it privately, and he said it would not be celebrated because this year it is not a holy day of obligation.

Is this true? What should I do?

I would check with the Chancery (the office of the Bishop). Then, I would check around other parishes in your city to see if they will be having Mass and go to the church nearest you. Our diocesan Director of Divine Worship was very clear (he’s a priest) that this was a Holy Day of Obligation. Even my dad’s pastor (who doesn’t necessarily agree with the director of DW) concurred on this one.

I hope this helps.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

I am in the Archdiocese of Miami, Florida.
In my parish bulletin today,
there is a BIG notice that THIS YEAR
the Immaculate Conception is NOT a holy day of obligation.

My parish ALWAYS has vigil masses for holy days of obligation, as well as 2 morning English masses on the Holy Day itself.
But this year the Satuday 12/8 mass is the regular little morning mass at 8 a.m. in the little chapel.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

 

[benedictgal]

Unfortunately, Father didn’t get it 100% right.

The obligations can be satisfied in any of the following ways:

1. Saturday morning or early afternoon Mass, then Saturday anticipated Mass; or
2. Saturday anticipated Mass and Sunday Mass on Sunday; or
3. Saturday daytime Mass and Sunday daytime Mass.

The reason for this is because Canon Law specifically states that the liturgical day runs midnight to midnight.

I would be most interested to see that notation. Someone posted a reference to canon law, but, it did not specify that it was a liturgical day. Furthermore, there is no such thing as a two-for-one deal when it comes to fulfilling the obligation. For example, when Christmas Eve falls on a Sunday, the evening Mass on that day only satisfies the Christmas obligation, not the Sunday obligation. In order to fulfill the obligation, the readings must be from the propers of that day. Therefore, you fulfill your obligation on Saturday evening, for the fourth Sunday of Advent up until before the vigil Mass for Christmas Eve, Sunday evening.

I don’t quite know why it would necessitate a difficulty for people to go to Mass twice over the weekend. It’s as though we have lost a sense of the sacred. We can go to the movies twice in a weekend (or a week). We can to go the Mall and fight the crowds at 4AM the day after Thanksgiving and then start all over again the following day. We can go to a bar to watch the Dallas Cowboys play and then return the next day to hear a band. But, when it comes to the Mass, that’s too much for us to do.

 

[Phemie]

I can simplify it for you. Move to Canada where the Immaculate Conception is not a holy day of obligation.

 

[benedictgal]

I am in the Archdiocese of Miami, Florida.
In my parish bulletin today,
there is a BIG notice that THIS YEAR
the Immaculate Conception is NOT a holy day of obligation.

My parish ALWAYS has vigil masses for holy days of obligation, as well as 2 morning English masses on the Holy Day itself.
But this year the Satuday 12/8 mass is the regular little morning mass at 8 a.m. in the little chapel.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

Our bishop made no mention of it not being a holy day of Obligation this year. I will, nonetheless, go to Mass at our Cathedral. I still think that something is amiss.

 

[FelixRoma]

My diocese also said it’s not a Holy Day of Obligation this year, so I guess it’s OK.

 

[whatevergirl]

This is so wild…why are all the dioceses not in agreement with this? In our bulletin, and announced today after mass–next Saturday, Dec. 8th IS A HOLY DAY OF OBLIGATION. And thus they are having a Friday night vigil mass…or 9am mass on Sat. I don’t get why all the parishes nationwide, are not in agreement? I mean…isn’t this something that is mandated from the Pope? How can one parish say it’s not a holy day, and another mandate it?