Immaculate Conception feastday

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Does that mean that the obligation is on Sunday? My Catholic calendar says that the ninth is not a holy day of obligation. I guess it could be wrong though.

You’re correct. This year December 8 is on a Sunday and the obligation to attend Mass is on Sunday. Even though the celebration of the Immaculate Conception will transfer to Monday the obligation to attend Mass will not transfer.

 

[ProVobis]

[post=10862908]Nailed it[/post].


tee

I imagine it has something to do with the fact that the readings of the Second Advent of Advent, being on a 3-yr cycle, can’t be broken? I can’t think of any other reason.

 

[tee_eff_em]

I imagine it has something to do with the fact that the readings of the Second Advent of Advent, being on a 3-yr cycle, can’t be broken? I can’t think of any other reason.

In general, the Sundays of Advent take precedence over Solemnities of the Blessed Virgin Mary in the General Calendar (cf. Table of Liturgical Days), though apparently even [post=11460327]that can be dispensed[/post].

tee

 

[The_Reginator]

UK, Wales and Canada need to get with the program.

-Tim-

For some time now I’ve found it rather odd that Holy Days of Obligation are not universal in the “Universal Church”.
I found this here on CAF from List of all holy days of obligation - Canada 2011

… in Canada we find the following:

Holy Mary the Mother of God (Holy Day of Obligation)
Nativity of our Lord Jesus Christ (Holy Day of Obligation)

Epiphany (January 6th or the Sunday after January 1, whichever comes first; this year Epiphany is celebrated on Jan. 2, next year it’ll be on January 6th but still not a Holy Day of Obligation)

Ascension (transferred to Sunday)
Body and Blood of Christ (transferred to Sunday)

Immaculate Conception (abrogated)
Assumption (abrogated)
Saint Joseph (abrogated)
Saint Peter and Saint Paul the Apostles (abrogated)
All Saints (abrogated)

That, of course, is in addition to every Sunday throughout the year.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

For some time now I’ve found it rather odd that Holy Days of Obligation are not universal in the “Universal Church”.

They’re universal in the sense that they’re spelled out in canon law:

Can. 1246 §1. Sunday, on which by apostolic tradition the paschal mystery is celebrated, must be observed in the universal Church as the primordial holy day of obligation. The following days must also be observed: the Nativity of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Epiphany, the Ascension, the Body and Blood of Christ, Holy Mary the Mother of God, her Immaculate Conception, her Assumption, Saint Joseph, Saint Peter and Saint Paul the Apostles, and All Saints.

But that’s followed by:

§2. With the prior approval of the Apostolic See, however, the conference of bishops can suppress some of the holy days of obligation or transfer them to a Sunday.

And that’s why they vary by country.

 

[yaycatholic]

The Italian Bishops managed to persuade the Vatican to allow them to celebrate the solemnity on the Sunday. See link below:

chiesacattolica.it/liturgia/siti_di_uffici_e_servizi/ufficio_liturgico_nazionale/00040801_Solennita_dell_Immacolata.html

Spanish Bishops also got permission from CDW to celebrate the solemnity on sunday instead of monday!

 

[Megan7]

Immaculate Conception is ALWAYS a Holy Day of obligation.

See:

catholicism.about.com/od/holydaysandholidays/a/2013_Lit_Cal.htm
catholicism.about.com/od/holydaysandholidays/f/Imm_Con_Holy.htm

And also note this promulgation from the US Conference of Catholic Bishops:

Immaculate Conception is not mentioned in the paragraph pertaining to abrogating the obligation.

Thanks

 

[liturgyluver]

Spanish Bishops also got permission from CDW to celebrate the solemnity on sunday instead of monday!

Interesting. Looks like the US Bishops missed a trick!

 

[corsair]

From today’s Rorate Caeli BlogSpot,

Immaculate Conception: Sunday, not Monday

We usually do not concern ourselves with the whimsical novelties of the norvus ordo, but this Sunday may present confusion in mixed-use parishes that can be easily clarified ahead of time.

“This Sunday, 8 December, is the feast of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary. The novus ordo has transfered its feast to Monday while declaring there is no obligation to hear Mass on the transfered holy day. It is not our job to explain novus ordo decisions.”

“The traditional Latin Mass, however, follows the calendar and rubrics in place for 1962, as specified in #28 of Universae Ecclesiae. To that end, when the first class feast of the Immaculate Conception falls on the same day as the first class Second Sunday of Advent, the feast of the Immaculate Conception is observed, and the Second Sunday of Advent is commemorated.”

These are their words.

 

[dixieagle]

“Whimsical novelties?” Really?

 

[ProVobis]

“Whimsical novelties?” Really?

I believe the change to use only a single set of readings was implemented around 1960 as part of the Mass reforms. Prior to that even daily Masses used not only the readings of the day but sometimes readings of the previous Sunday as well. There’s a reason why those missals and handmissals had five or six ribbons included.

 

[JReducation]

From today’s Rorate Caeli BlogSpot,

Immaculate Conception: Sunday, not Monday

We usually do not concern ourselves with the whimsical novelties of the norvus ordo, but this Sunday may present confusion in mixed-use parishes that can be easily clarified ahead of time.

“This Sunday, 8 December, is the feast of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary. The novus ordo has transfered its feast to Monday while declaring there is no obligation to hear Mass on the transfered holy day. It is not our job to explain novus ordo decisions.”

“The traditional Latin Mass, however, follows the calendar and rubrics in place for 1962, as specified in #28 of Universae Ecclesiae. To that end, when the first class feast of the Immaculate Conception falls on the same day as the first class Second Sunday of Advent, the feast of the Immaculate Conception is observed, and the Second Sunday of Advent is commemorated.”

These are their words.

Wow!

That is very disrespectful of the Holy See.

There is a theological reason why the solemnity is moved. They may not be up to date on their theological studies.

Sunday masses are always solemnities of the Lord. No solemnity of a saint, including the Blessed Mother, may trump a solemnity of the Lord.

Normally, if another solemnity conflicts with the Sunday Solemnity, it is skipped that year. However, since the Immaculate Conception is the patronal feast of the USA, the USCCB moved it to Dec 9 to honor Our Lady and Patroness. In other countries, they have the option to celebrate the Sunday of Advent and skip the Immaculate Conception completely. Each conference of bishops will decide.

As to whether it’s holy day of obligation or not, this varies by country. It normally is a holy day of obligation in the USA, because it’s our patronal feast. It’s not a holy day of obligation in many countries around the world. in the Latin Church. It’s not even on some of the calendars of the Eastern Churches.

I guess it must be one of those whimsical Eastern Catholic idiosyncrasies.

 

[ProVobis]

I have a question regarding the poll.

What exactly is the difference between “Not many” and “several”? And what is the purpose of the poll?

I ask this because it reminds me that in one of the documents of Vatican II, “haud raro” (literally, “not rarely”) was translated “frequently” and this apparently led to using the vernacular all the time.

 

[Chatter163]

Sunday masses are always solemnities of the Lord. No solemnity of a saint, including the Blessed Mother, may trump a solemnity of the Lord.

Normally, if another solemnity conflicts with the Sunday Solemnity, it is skipped that year. However, since the Immaculate Conception is the patronal feast of the USA, the USCCB moved it to Dec 9 to honor Our Lady and Patroness. In other countries, they have the option to celebrate the Sunday of Advent and skip the Immaculate Conception completely. Each conference of bishops will decide.

As to whether it’s holy day of obligation or not, this varies by country. It normally is a holy day of obligation in the USA, because it’s our patronal feast. It’s not a holy day of obligation in many countries around the world. in the Latin Church. It’s not even on some of the calendars of the Eastern Churches.

I guess it must be one of those whimsical Eastern Catholic idiosyncrasies.

With respect, Brother, this is not accurate. In the Ordinary Form, the Sundays of Advent, Lent and Easter always supersede any other solemnity, which is why the Immaculate Conception is transferred to Monday in the universal kalendar, not just in the USA. The solemnity is transferred to the first unimpeded day. Normally this is the next day, but if the next day is a solemnity, as well, then the displaced solemnity is transferred to the first unimpeded day. This is why sometimes in Lent, when the solemnities of St. Joseph and the Annunciation fall in Holy Week or Easter Week, they are transferred to the Monday and/or Tuesday after Easter Week. If St. Joseph falls during Holy Week, then Annunciation falls during Easter Week, and we see St. Joseph transferred to the Monday of the first full week of April and Annunciation to the next day.

Also, the Sundays during Ordinary Time always give way to a solemnity, even a solemnity not of Our Lord. Thus, when the Assumption, All Saints, Sts. Peter and Paul, and the Nativity of St. John the Baptist fall on a Sunday in Ordinary Time, they supersede the Sunday on the universal calendar. It is not something that bishops decide. Next year, the Solemnity of Sts. Peter and Paul falls on a Sunday and it will be celebrated on that day. Last year the Nativity of St. John the Baptist fell on a Sunday and was celebrated on that day. Both of these were on the universal calendar.

 

[JReducation]

With respect, Brother, this is not accurate. In the Ordinary Form, the Sundays of Advent, Lent and Easter always supersede any other solemnity,

That’s what I said. I said it a little differently. I said that no solemnity that is not a solemnity of the Lord can trump a Sunday.

The Sundays of Advent, Lent and Easter are solemnities of the Lord.

But I can see where my explanation was not clear. I should have clarified that the Sunday of Advent, Lent and Easter are not the same as the Sundays of Ordinary Time. Ordinary Time pauses. Thank you for pointing that out.

Also, the Sundays during Ordinary Time always give way to a solemnity, even a solemnity not of Our Lord. Thus, when the Assumption, All Saints, Sts. Peter and Paul, and the Nativity of St. John the Baptist fall on a Sunday in Ordinary Time, they supersede the Sunday on the universal calendar. It is not something that bishops decide. Next year, the Solemnity of Sts. Peter and Paul falls on a Sunday and it will be celebrated on that day. Last year the Nativity of St. John the Baptist fell on a Sunday and was celebrated on that day. Both of these were on the universal calendar.

These are built into the Latin Church’s calendar by the Holy See, that’s why. The individual conferences have no say on these. But that’s not the case with patronal solemnities.

The conferences have been given permission to lift the obligation whenever it’s pastorally necessary. Some are not holy day of obligation.

I’ve marked in red those in the paragraph above that are not universal solemnities. They are feasts in some calendars. For example on the Franciscan Calendar, these are feasts, not solemnities. Whereas the Stigmata of St. Francis, St. Francis, and St. Clare are solemnities and holy days of obligation for us, but I’m not even sure if they even appear on the universal calendar.

 

[luna1234]

For those who follow the EF Mass, the Immaculate Conception takes priority. In the OF Mass, its Advent.

Check it out.

 

[luna1234]

Rankings of feasts for the EF, at least for Sunday are pretty simple, as described below:

From wikipedia (which looks to be mostly lifted from a hand missal)

Pope John XXIII’s Code of Rubrics divided Sundays into two classes. Sundays of the I class were the four of Advent, the four of Lent, the two of Passiontide, Easter Sunday, Low Sunday, and Pentecost.[12] No feast whatsoever could replace the celebration of these Sundays, with the sole exception of the feast of the Immaculate Conception.[13] All other Sundays were of II class,[14] and outranked feasts of II class, with the exception that feasts of the Lord, whether I or II class, replaced celebration of a II class Sunday on which they happened to fall.[15]

The Immaculate Conception is the only feast during Advent that outranks the Sunday. The Sunday’s Mass will be commemorated. So we get the best of both worlds. It really irks me when Holy Days are transferred. It seems odd that Holy Days that occur on Saturday or Monday are dispensed and moved to Sunday, yet one that occurs on Sunday is moved to a Monday with no obligation to attend. The argument for the former is that more people will be able to hear the Mass of the Holy Day. This just seems odd.

The Holy day should occur on the actual day. Thankfully that is usually always the case in the EF.

 

[tee_eff_em]

I am very confused.

That’s what I said. I said it a little differently. I said that no solemnity that is not a solemnity of the Lord can trump a Sunday.

The Sundays of Advent, Lent and Easter are solemnities of the Lord.

But I can see where my explanation was not clear. I should have clarified that the Sunday of Advent, Lent and Easter are not the same as the Sundays of Ordinary Time. Ordinary Time pauses. Thank you for pointing that out.

Also, the Sundays during Ordinary Time always give way to a solemnity, even a solemnity not of Our Lord. Thus, when the Assumption, All Saints, Sts. Peter and Paul

Do you mean to say that the celebration of All Saints is neither a solemnity nor a holy day of obligation on the Franciscan calendar!? That was never my understanding when I was among the Franciscans?

Nor does it seem in line with the General Norms for the Liturgical Year and the Calendar #50, on the drawing up of a particular calendar.


tee

 

[JReducation]

I am very confused.

Do you mean to say that the celebration of All Saints is neither a solemnity nor a holy day of obligation on the Franciscan calendar!? That was never my understanding when I was among the Franciscans?

Nor does it seem in line with the General Norms for the Liturgical Year and the Calendar #50, on the drawing up of a particular calendar.


tee

It depends on when it falls and which ordo the friars are using. In the USA we use pretty much the same ordo as the secular clergy uses, with some exceptions. That’s not the case everywhere. Our ordos are done by regions and submitted for approval by the General Ministers and the Congregation for Divine Worship. These two bodies have the final word. That’s why you’ll find that we have different missals, lectionaries and breviaries around the world.

But that is not important for the sake of this thread. For the sake of this thread, what is important is the manner in which the article in the blog uses language. It’s offensive to us.

 

[ProVobis]

Spanish Bishops also got permission from CDW to celebrate the solemnity on sunday instead of monday!

I attended the Spanish Mass (Sunday vigil) and they celebrated the 2nd Advent of Advent. Perhaps the Sunday Masses will be celebrating the IC.