Immaculate Conception Readings confusing

[CatholicDR]

Why on the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception do they have the reading where the Angel Gabriel announces to Mary that she will give birth to Jesus? That is supposed to be when Mary conceives Jesus by the Holy Spirit–which is not the Immaculate Conception. I can understand why people get confused…

 

[edward_george1]

This is the source text in the Gospels for the Immaculate Conception.

1. Mary doesn’t react in fear to the presence of the angel, as does everyone else in scripture who encounters an angel. This is because Mary, being Immaculately Conceived can be in the presence of an angel, who mediates the presence of God, without fear of being annihilated.
2. Mary is addressed by the angel as “Full of Grace.” The grammatical construction of the word on Greek refer to how she has always been perfected in grace by her Immaculate Conception.
3. The angel tells Mary that the power of the Holy Spirit will overshadow her, just as the Holy Spirit overshadowed the Ark of the Covenant. Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant.
4. When Zachariah questions Gabriel, he is struck dumb, because he is questioning his metaphysical superior. When Mary asks a question, the angel answers her, because she, being the Immaculately Conceived Queen of the Angels, has the right to ask questions of the Angels.

-Fr ACEGC

 

[Julius_Caesar]

Mary doesn’t react in fear to the presence of the angel, as does everyone else in scripture who encounters an angel. This is because Mary, being Immaculately Conceived can be in the presence of an angel, who mediates the presence of God, without fear of being annihilated.

The Gospel states that Mary was greatly troubled when she saw Gabriel.

 

[Vico]

Why on the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception do they have the reading where the Angel Gabriel announces to Mary that she will give birth to Jesus? That is supposed to be when Mary conceives Jesus by the Holy Spirit–which is not the Immaculate Conception. I can understand why people get confused…

The Protoevangelium of James is not canonical so it is not used. Ineffabilis Deus (1854) refers to Genesis 3:15. Genesis 3:9-15, 20 is used in the readings.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The Gospel states that Mary was greatly troubled when she saw Gabriel.

The Angel also specifically tells her, “Do not be afraid.” If she wasn’t at least a little nervous, why did he say that?

 

[Todd_Easton]

Before the angel announces to Mary that she will give birth to Jesus, he addresses Mary as “full of grace.” The Greek word used in Luke 1:28, κεχαριτωμένη, and translated in the lectionary reading as “full of grace,” refers to some kind of enduring grace or favor that God gave to Mary sometime in the past prior to the angel’s appearance. Catholics have come to understand that this grace or favor included her immaculate conception.

 

[edward_george1]

She was greatly troubled “and wondered what sort of greeting this might be.” She seems more troubled that the angel has called her “full of grace” than that he’s there at all. She doesn’t react with the great degree of fear that basically everyone else does when they see an angel. No prostration, no covering the face.

 

[stpurl]

The angel also told St. Joseph, “do not be afraid to take Mary into your home.’

I believe the translation of “do not be afraid’ does not relate, as it would in our English 21st century understanding, to a concept of a listener being ‘nervous’ or ‘fearful’ but more to a understanding of, “Yes, the time has come and as God’s messenger I rejoice in telling you His will”. Mary’s words in response to the angel, “Be it done to me according to Your will —the you being God, not the angel—show that through Gabriel it is God speaking to Mary. We might in modern terms then hear a father telling his child, “Don’t worry honey, everything will be all right in the end.” And the child trustfully answering, “Yes, Daddy, I’ll do just as you ask me.”

 

[porthos11]

Why on the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception do they have the reading where the Angel Gabriel announces to Mary that she will give birth to Jesus? That is supposed to be when Mary conceives Jesus by the Holy Spirit–which is not the Immaculate Conception. I can understand why people get confused…

It is because the passage contains the word “kecharitomene” in the reading, a key word in the teaching on the Immaculate Conception.

 

[hope]

I am curious as to what reading you feel would have been more appropriate?

The mention of Mary is limited to only a hand full of times. We only hear her speak twice. Once at the Annunciation and last at the Wedding at Cana where her last words are “Do whatever he tells you.”

 

[HeDa]

Third is the meeting with Elisabeth when St John the Baptist is leaping with joy in his mother´s womb. And that is a magnificent meeting.

 

[CatholicDR]

I get that this passage is where we derive that she is “full of grace” and was Immaculately conceived. It’s just that to all the non-bible scholar Catholics and Christians, they are looking at the fact that she conceives Jesus there too–so most people then think that the Immaculate Conception was when Jesus was conceived. Maybe keep the Alleluia of Luke 1:28 “And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.” and use John 2:3-5 - 2:3. And the wine failing, the mother of Jesus saith to him: They have no wine.
2:4. And Jesus saith to her: Woman, what is that to me and to thee? My hour is not yet come.
2:5. His mother saith to the waiters: Whatsoever he shall say to you, do ye.
It’s really not the best either but one has to admit that the day’s Gospel passage confuses a LOT of people.

 

[IanM]

It’s really not the best either but one has to admit that the day’s Gospel passage confuses a LOT of people.

You may consider comparing the readings of the OF Mass of today with those of the EF Mass (TLM) . I think that the EF (TLM) readings point more steadfastly at what the Church has long thought and are more educative.

Introit Isa 61. 10

Lesson Proverbs 8. 22-35

Gradual Judith 13. 23

Tract Ps. 86. 1

Gospel St. Luke 1. 26- 28

Offetory St Luke 1. 28

 

[hope]

Maybe that is why our pastor spent time in explaining it?

 

[Richca]

I think the reason the Church has the gospel reading of the Annunciation on the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception is because the person of Mary points us to Jesus. Mary was immaculately conceived because of her future vocation to be the mother of the incarnate eternal Word. And she was preserved from all stain of original sin in advance of the redeeming work of her divine Son. Mary leads us to Jesus who is God incarnate so it makes sense that the gospel reading is about the Annunciation and incarnation of the eternal Son of God.

 

[Jen7]

Well, there isn’t a reading for her conception. But you’re right - it does explain why there’s confusion.

 

[Cathoholic]

Why on the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception do they have the reading where the Angel Gabriel announces to Mary that she will give birth to Jesus?

Because the Archangel Gabriel greets The Blessed Virgin Mary as “Full of Grace”.

And the Greek is perfect tense.

This signifies a past action being carried over to the present.

If the Blessed Virgin Mary was “full” in a past sense too (and She was) . . . This points back, even to the moment of Her conception.

Hope that helps.

God bless.

Cathoholic

PS. Anticipated question. St. Stephen being “full of grace” is for that moment. Not “full of grace” in a perfect tense for St. Stephen.

 

[Cathoholic]

The Gospel states that Mary was greatly troubled when she saw Gabriel.

The Blessed Virgin Mary’s “trouble” was a filial fear.
A fear of offending God.

("If this is a bad Spirit, I do not want to offend God by consorting with it. So I will be quiet, pray, contemplate, and listen to what God tells Me in My Immaculate Heart. I do not want to offend God in any way.)

The Blessed Virgin Mary had a filial fear.

Not a “fear” of being a frightened woman in the sense of being afraid of the angel encounter per se.

And we know that from the text
because fear in a non-filial sense would be a sin.

Yet The Blessed Virgin is called by her title—“Full of Grace”—in a perfect tense.

If The Virgin was scared,
She would NOT be being described as “Full of Grace” in that sense.

She would be described as who BEFORE had a lot of grace until now when you doubted or were scared.

Also . . . .

Notice also the Blessed Virgin Mary never talks back to the Angel until . . . .

Until when?

Well let’s look at the text in the next post and find out what that “until” is!

1/2 . . .

 

[Cathoholic]

2/2 . . . .

Well let’s now look at the text and find out what that “until” is!

LUKE 1:26-34a 26 In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And he came to her and said, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!” 29 But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be. 30 And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus.

32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High;
and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David,
33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever;
and of his kingdom there will be no end.”

34 And Mary said to the angel, “How can this be . . .

St. Gabriel says His name will be
Jesus and “He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High”.

AFTER THAT, the Blessed Virgin talks to the Angel.

She does not say a word, until the Angel affirms Jesus as the Son of God. At least in an anticipatory sense, which is the best that can occur there to humans in time.

Remember Jesus gave the Blessed Virgin Mary to the Beloved Disciple St. John (in a primary or direct sense, and to us in a secondary sense) at the foot of the Cross.

1st JOHN 2:22-23, 26-27 and 4:1-3, 18 22 Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. He who confesses the Son has the Father also. . . . 26 I write this to you about those who would deceive you; 27 but the anointing which you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that any one should teach you; as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie, just as it has taught you, abide in him.

. . . . 1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are of God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit which confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit which does not confess Jesus is not of God. This is the spirit of antichrist, of which you heard that it was coming, and now it is in the world already. . . .

. . . . . . 18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and he who fears is not perfected in love. . . .

This is the “bad fear” that the Blessed Virgin did not even need to “cast out” (and we KNOW She did not have that kind of “fear” because She is “Full of Grace” in the perfect tense sense).

I cannot prove this but it is my opinion that St. John learned this paradigm that he wrote about in 1st John (of how to deal with a spirit) directly from the Blessed Virgin Mary!

And in Luke chapter one, we are seeing that paradigm in action to a certain extent.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

If The Virgin was scared, She would not be being described as “Full of Grace” in that sense.

But you said:

The Blessed Virgin Mary’s “trouble” was a **filial fear. **
A fear of offending God.

And what better way to express that than wondering why you are allowed to see God’s angel and still live to tell the tale? The two don’t conflict.