The immaculate conception and her perpetual virginity are crucial because they are true. The Catholic Church does not “decide” what will be doctrine, it simply says what God has revealed as true. It wasn’t crucial for God to become man, but it is true. Why deny the truth?
Protestants are not going to agree with the Doctrines surrounding Mary because they are not in the Bible. My curiosity is why they are important. Are there any crucial doctrines that are based on them?
Perhaps an example will help.
But I still don’t see the necessity of the Marian Doctrines. They may be there to support the truths of Christ, but they do not have any direct effect on them. In other words if the Marian Doctrines were to disappear no other substantial doctrines of the church would be effected.
So, you think Mary is still alive? Since her death in not in the Bible, she must never have died, right? The question is, do the doctrines oppose anything in the Bible, not is it stated that it is, but is it stated that it isn’t. Again why do you think, you know what is important? Don’t you trust God? It seems you’re looking for the “drive thru” salvation; just give me what I need to be saved, keep the rest. Sorry, but God doesn’t operate that way.
Who says? I know where her perpetual virginity is stated, but you disagree. Who says it’s not in the Bible? And who says it needs to be in the Bible? The Bible certainly doesn’t, in fact the Bible says the Catholic Church is the pillar of truth, and we are to judge things by the Church, the Bible is based on the Church, not the other way around!
Not directly, but… perhaps the idea that Sacred Tradition is equal in importance as the Bible to Catholics would be a crucial doctrine? The New Testament simply consists of that information that was written down. The Bible even states that if everything that could be written down was, all of the books in the world could not contain the stories, so we know that there was plenty of less crucial but true information left out. For a good part of the early church, that information was passed on directly through oral tradition. The Bible, as such, didn’t come into existence until nearly 400 AD, and then, the books to be included were determined by a series of Catholic councils. For over 20% of Christianity, there was no Bible (although Sacred Scripture certainly did exist in a variety of other forms). Many books, such as the Didache, the Epistle of Barnabas, the Shepherd of Hermas, and others, almost made it into the Bible and were accepted as Holy Scripture in some areas. Other books, like Revelation, were almost rejected entirely. It took the authority of the Catholic Church, using Sacred Tradition, to determine which books should be included. Further, it was the Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church that determined that the Trinity was doctrine. The Catholic Council of Nicaea was called to come to a decision over this belief, which was questioned by the Arians. Although the Bible “implies” the Trinity, it is never explicitly stated. The fact that Sacred Tradition is so important would be one reason to believe in the Immaculate Conception. If you don’t, you reject the idea that Sacred Tradition matters at all.
I think you misunderstand my point in asking. I believe in extra-biblical teachings. I am not a sola-scriptora christian. My only question is what is their true significance? I am not disrespecting them, I find them fascinating. What I cannot discern is why they are so important to Catholics. The Virgin Mary is held with incredible esteem and given attributes neigh on divine by the church and I wonder why? What purpose does that serve?
See I wondered about that. I can understand the logic behind Jesus being born without “original sin.” But why would Mary need to be sinless in order for that to take place?
If the truths of the Marian Doctrine were that clear in scriptures I would be Catholic. I would not argue with your beliefs even if they were based on implications in the scriptures. I believe in things that are not explicitly stated in the bible, we only see shadows of them. So I am not demeaning your beliefs only trying to understand them.
Let me see if I can paint the purpose and origin of the Bible in a different light. “All scripture is God breathed…” I think of the Bible as being the mind and will of God, written by an inspired human hand. Surely the men who wrote it had no idea their writings would be published as they are today but God did.
Because truth is supported by truth! Let’s look at the Mother of God example again. The reason it was necessary to define it is because folks at the time were saying Jesus wasn’t really God, just a man. They tried to prove this by saying that Mary was just the mother of the man Jesus because she could not be the Mother of God (much like some modern Protestants say). The early Church said, no, Jesus is fully God and fully man, therefore Mary is the Mother of God.