Immaculate Conception

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"For the record. I don’t support the Catholic church, I don’t believe in the Catholic church nor do I accept the Catholic church as a legitimate branch of the Christian faith - it is heresy built upon men. Just as I would never accept Mormonism, I reject any and all forms of Catholicism which is making inroads in the evangelical church. Don’t ask me to pray for the Pope or for the leaders within the Catholic religion, other than that they get saved and then LEAVE that darkness they are in.

That’s my position and it will never change."

Read this on fb this morning by some nut job who supports the likes of Benny Hinn, now this is “anti-Catholic”, but I am not, and when I read drivel like this, it almost makes me want to run back to the Church, almost…
 
stewstew03 said:
You’ve been given plenty of evidence here and here, but haven’t actually responded to any of the scriptures. Perhaps it’s a daunting task, so let’s just focus on one verse:

[BIBLEDRB]Genesis 3:15[/BIBLEDRB]

You would agree that the woman in this verse is Mary, and that her seed is Jesus, yes?

:bible1:
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Sounds like a bad translation, Jesus is the one that crushes the snake’s head, and the snake strikes at Christ’s heel…
 
Fragile said:
Sounds like a bad translation, Jesus is the one that crushes the snake’s head, and the snake strikes at Christ’s heel…
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No - not a bad translation. Jesus is the one that crushes the serpent’s head, which means Mary is the “woman” referred to in the passage, right? So, with that in mind, we can translate it this way:

God speaking…
“I will make Satan, and the woman [Mary] enemies to each other. Satan’s offspring and Mary’s offspring [Jesus] will be enemies. Satan will bite the foot of Jesus, but He will crush Satan’s head.”

:bible1:
 
Fragile said:
"For the record. I don’t support the Catholic church, I don’t believe in the Catholic church nor do I accept the Catholic church as a legitimate branch of the Christian faith - it is heresy built upon men. Just as I would never accept Mormonism, I reject any and all forms of Catholicism which is making inroads in the evangelical church. Don’t ask me to pray for the Pope or for the leaders within the Catholic religion, other than that they get saved and then LEAVE that darkness they are in.

That’s my position and it will never change."

Read this on fb this morning by some nut job who supports the likes of Benny Hinn, now this is “anti-Catholic”, but I am not, and when I read drivel like this, it almost makes me want to run back to the Church, almost…
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Fragile - it is enough to say “I am not anti-Catholic.” You don’t need to cut/paste anti-Catholic sentiments on CAF and then try to distance yourself from such sentiments.
 
…oh, but it’s perfectly fine to do so w/Protestants? Thing is, I’ve been accused of just that a few times here, wanted to clarify.
 
stewstew03 said:
No - not a bad translation. Jesus is the one that crushes the serpent’s head, which means Mary is the “woman” referred to in the passage, right? So, with that in mind, we can translate it this way:

God speaking…
“I will make Satan, and the woman [Mary] enemies to each other. Satan’s offspring and Mary’s offspring [Jesus] will be enemies. Satan will bite the foot of Jesus, but He will crush Satan’s head.”

:bible1:
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I’ll buy that for a dollar! 👍
 
Fragile said:
Some of you seem to think the bible is just a book like any other, to the contrary, it is “alive and active, sharper than any two edged sword, able to pierce and divide, revealing the thoughts and intents of the heart” So yes, I believe the bible is fully capable, and does all those things listed there.
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Is it living flesh? Can it call a council to address questions of faith? To bible Christians, the fragmentary written record (Luke 3:18, John 20:30, John 21:25, Acts 2:40,1 Corinthians 11:34, Ephesians 6:21 etc.), the tiny slice of perfection that it is, forms a sort of foundation, but the Church was not founded by Christ upon partial revelation. Christ founded it upon men who were chosen by Him and guided by the Holy Spirit, according to the very Word Himself - Jesus Christ. What has happened since then is that Christ’s authoritative Body has been rejected and that the "Word’ has come to mean only the bible. Arguing over what those printed words actually mean has caused almost irreparable harm to the Body of Christ - and the devil delights in this.
 
Fragile said:
Some of you seem to think the bible is just a book like any other, to the contrary, it is “alive and active, sharper than any two edged sword, able to pierce and divide, revealing the thoughts and intents of the heart” So yes, I believe the bible is fully capable, and does all those things listed there.
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This, again, could be taken as bibliolatry.

The Word of God, which is JESUS, is “alive and active, sharper than any two edged sword, able to pierce and divide, revealing the thoughts and intents of the heart”.

Not a book, not matter how holy.

See how things can be taken superficially and misunderstood as idolatry?
 
Fragile said:
Out of context, yes.
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To what are your responding?

Are you providing an answer to those non-Catholics who view veneration of Mary as idolatry?

Is that what you mean by “out of context, yes”?
 
Imm conception is a revealed truth which became dogma in the 19th century. That is when one of the pope’s issued a papal bull on the topic declaring it as a revealed truth.

The Bible is a revealed truth.
 
Do you people have any sense of humor? You sound like Jerry’s uncle on Seinfeld where everything was “Anti-Semitic!” :rolleyes:
 
=Dave27360;10472063]Hello All,
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I was talking to a Protestant who was asking me more about the Immaculate Conception of Mary. In particular they were wanting to know Biblical references of Mary being sinless. They reject Tradition and the Magisterium I found the following link which provided more information catholic.com/tracts/immaculate-conception-and-assumption. The passage that the Protestant References was Luke 1: 26-56. The NAB Revised edition also references Titus 3:4 and Jude 25. I told that that I am still learning more about the Catholic Faith (I am currently attending RCIA with plans of being Confirmed this Easter Vigil), but I would be glad to try to find out more information about the Immaculate Conception. Are there any scriptural references abouut the Immaculate Conception? From what I can tell it looks like the Catholic Doctrine on the Immaculate Conception is a combination of Scripture, Tradition, and Magisterium. I did explain to them that Tradition is an important part of the Catholic Faith. And that the difference in views on Mary being sinless may come from a difference in individual translations. They said that they try to use the Holy Spirit when reading the scriptures. I do think that the Holy Spirit helps us with reading the scriptures but believe that it is possible for the individual to misinterupt what they read.
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Thank You for the Feedback,
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Dave27360
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  1. Because Is Perfect
  2. Because God in-order to BE God MUST remain perfect
  3. Mary had to be perfect[ed] and was through the merits of her to come Son [time does not exist for God]
  4. Then Mary using her mind, intellect, and freewill had to then choose FREELY to remain PERFECT, which she did with God’s grace and her complete and total cooperation with it.
  5. God COULD NOT be born from a (name removed by moderator)erfect mother. Theologically, and morally impossible. Amen
 
Dave27360 said:
Hello All,

I was talking to a Protestant who was asking me more about the Immaculate Conception of Mary. In particular they were wanting to know Biblical references of Mary being sinless. They reject Tradition and the Magisterium I found the following link which provided more information catholic.com/tracts/immaculate-conception-and-assumption. The passage that the Protestant References was Luke 1: 26-56. The NAB Revised edition also references Titus 3:4 and Jude 25. I told that that I am still learning more about the Catholic Faith (I am currently attending RCIA with plans of being Confirmed this Easter Vigil), but I would be glad to try to find out more information about the Immaculate Conception. Are there any scriptural references abouut the Immaculate Conception? From what I can tell it looks like the Catholic Doctrine on the Immaculate Conception is a combination of Scripture, Tradition, and Magisterium. I did explain to them that Tradition is an important part of the Catholic Faith. And that the difference in views on Mary being sinless may come from a difference in individual translations. They said that they try to use the Holy Spirit when reading the scriptures. I do think that the Holy Spirit helps us with reading the scriptures but believe that it is possible for the individual to misinterupt what they read.

Thank You for the Feedback,

Dave27360
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As you mentioned, Luke 1 is basically the only place in Scripture you can find evidence of the Immaculate Conception. Of course, Tradition, especially from the Early Church, will show that they were much more Marian than most Protestants. It’s probably best to explain how Scripture/NT wasn’t around in an organized canon for almost 400 years after Christ’s death. Even the disciples didn’t have the books in the New Testament for at least 10 years. They were using Tradition to spread the faith. 😉
 
From what I can tell all of the Early Church Fathers believed in the In the Immaculate Conception.
 
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