Immigration Rallies Planned Nationwide

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caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=494&invol=259

It has NOTHING to do with 1st Amendment rights with respect to illegals but speaks about how the 4th, 5th and 6th Amendments were applied to that specific case.
UNITED STATES v. VERDUGO-URQUIDEZ, 494 U.S. 259 (1990)
Held: The Fourth Amendment does not apply to the search and seizure by United States agents of property owned by a nonresident alien and located in a foreign country

Relying on INS v. Lopez-Mendoza, 468 U.S. 1032 - where a majority assumed that illegal aliens in the United States have Fourth Amendment rights
caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=494&invol=259
[

](Caselaw: Cases and Codes - FindLaw Caselaw)
Which appears to be consistent with the statement from the Court:
While this textual exegesis is by no means conclusive, it suggests that “the people” protected by the Fourth Amendment, and by the First and Second Amendments, and to whom rights and powers are reserved in the Ninth and Tenth Amendments, refers to a class of persons who are part of a national community or who have otherwise developed sufficient connection with this country to be considered part of that community. See United States ex rel. Turner v. Williams, 194 U.S. 279, 292 (1904
caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=494&invol=259
It appears that the “illegal” that we speak of fall under this category. All one has to do is look at our judicial process to see that indeed their rights are protected every day. Even those who have committed serious crimes. It’s not intended to keep them from being deported but the Constitution is intended to protect us all.

***If you re-read the material, I think you’ll find that The Rutherford Institute considers numerous complex aspects of the laws and shows how, for example, the “Equal Protection Clause” of the Fourteenth Amendment is consistent with and a working component of a number of Amendments, including the First Amendment. ***

BTW, I don’t support the Institute in all of its positions. I used it mainly because it was a conservative source. It would have been much easier to link to ACLU sources or to neutral sources like this one:
Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights

**
usconstitution.net/xconst_Am14.html**
And, no "citizenship does not refer to “US citizenship”. But I won’t get into that any further as it will only lead to unnecessary discussion.
 
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Ituyu:
Guess what word this definition is for:
1 a : slow of mind : OBTUSE b : given to unintelligent decisions or acts : acting in an unintelligent or careless manner c : lacking intelligence or reason
: BRUTISH

Ironic isn’t it? The use of the law by you to undeservedly extend rights and privileges to illegal immigrants, while others falsely accuse the law to be “patently unjust” that denies them those same rights and privileges.

I just heard an interivew with retired SCOTUS Judge Sandra Day O’Connor who said she is alarmed that basic civics classes has been nearly eliminated in all highschools to the obvious detrament to our society. This thread has proven that correct to some degree.

Sound bytes are not sufficient, but the laws must be read fully; civil and religious. Truth will always win. We should be able to identify truth as Catholics since we know the Truth. Doing the right thing is not always easy but it is always right. A contrite heart gets rewarded by God. Honor and dignity should be the goal, not the expense.
 
Well, you and I both know there are many foreign residents in our county who never learn english - documented or not.
So what? We both know that has always been the case in this country and English has only been “Required” to become a citizen.
So, again, this would present a problem for a good number of undocumented immigrants. I suspect, however, that the test standards won’t be that high in order to facilitate the goal of the process - get more people through than turn away.
It presents a problem for most aliens that do not speak English. However, the demand for ESL classes exceeds the current supply.

Test standards have never been very rigid but they do have to demonstrate an ability to understand and respond to the questions.
Well, a felony for a US citizen **is **a serious crime, that’s my point. If convicted of a felony one must always admit to that when seeking employment and I think you even lose the right to vote. Assuming a false identity is a felony.
Why do you make that assumption? I was a victim of ID theft. Please don’t confuse ID theft with the use of false SS# or false Driver’s Licenses. ID theft means that someone assumes your real identity for the purposed of creating debt and making purchases with no intent to pay those debts. Or, to collect unearned SS benefits. The process could ruin a person financially. What most of the “illegal” do does not fit that class of criminal activity. In my case, I went to the LAPD with the address of the person who had stolen my Identity and guess what? They refused to pursue it. Why? They said it was a Civil matter not a Criminal one.
Productive? How so? That must mean they were earning wages and paying into the tax system for a number of years.
It means more than that but yes most of the “illegal” pay taxes and as a group they pay MORE into the system than they get.
 
How did they get those earnings? Through false identities and that is the felony.
If it was a felony, then the LAPD failed to do its job. If it was a felony then IRCA of 1986 allowed for it. And, according to what I was told by the LAPD, it was a Civil matter.
These are the people who are marching. Families who have been here long enough to grow to the size of 4-5 children and who are at risk for one or more of the members of that family getting caught for their crime of falsifying records.
Again, any legalization procedure would have to agree not to pursue action in most cases. IRCA of 1986 forgave that issue as long as the applicant provided full discloser of all ID’s used, documents and names.
Yes. Our obligation is to tend to the needs of all people. To visit those who are in prison, not to keep them from going to prison.
In Church view, most are not guilty of any crime so prison is not a justifiable option nor would it be a viable one for 12 million or more people.
When we encounter a criminal we are to treat them with dignity, yes. Now, keep in mind that goes for thieves, rapists, murderers, as well. The Church is saying we are not to judge the person, but to always treat them as we would Jesus.
Again, in Church view, no “crime was committed” and under US Civil Code crossing our border without inspection is not a “crime” but a violation punishable by fine/deportation and to enforce it would not serve us or them.
Are we morally obliged to turn them in? I don’t know.
OF COURSE NOT! That is why the Cardinal Mahony announced that it would not obey the law that would require the Church to report the “illegal” and that would also make it “illegal” to offer them Christian charity.
If the law requires us to do so, then I would think we are. If there is no law ruling one way or the other, then it appears we are not morally obliged to turn them in.
Either way, there is no “moral” obligation to turn them in for their “illegal” presence. Of course if they are selling drugs, they should be turned in.
But if/when they are caught in their crime, then it is our obligation to continue to make sure the person is treated fairly and with dignity. Fairly, for a criminal, is a right to a fair trial and just punishment.
Their “illegal” presence is NOT a criminal offense; it’s a “violation” for which the punishment is a fine/deportation not prison.
If that includes being deported, then we take care of the family that member leaves behind and make sure the person who is sent away is treated decently en route.
It’s an “unjust” law and breaking the family apart would only add to the injustice.
And, yes, that includes families of murderers, rapists, thieves and the lot, if we are to take Matthew’s passage to heart.
I’m afraid that due to many errant assumptions, your scenario falls far short of what is asked of us in Mathew 25.
 
Ironic isn’t it? The use of the law by you to undeservedly extend rights and privileges to illegal immigrants, while others falsely accuse the law to be “patently unjust” that denies them those same rights and privileges.

I just heard an interivew with retired SCOTUS Judge Sandra Day O’Connor who said she is alarmed that basic civics classes has been nearly eliminated in all highschools to the obvious detrament to our society. This thread has proven that correct to some degree.

Sound bytes are not sufficient, but the laws must be read fully; civil and religious. Truth will always win. We should be able to identify truth as Catholics since we know the Truth. Doing the right thing is not always easy but it is always right. A contrite heart gets rewarded by God. Honor and dignity should be the goal, not the expense.
I can agree with this because I feel it mostly applies to your errant understanding of the Constitution. So you believe that the “illegal” have no Freedom of Religion under the First Amendment? Why do you believe that the U.S. Supreme Court hears these cases if the “illegal” can be summarily denied all Constitutional rights? How would they do that in practice on probable cause? Because they spoke Spanish? Did you read Plyler v. Doe? To insist that the Constitution does not apply to the “illegal” only shows an inability to accept the facts.
 
I can agree with this because I feel it mostly applies to your errant understanding of the Constitution. So you believe that the “illegal” have no Freedom of Religion under the First Amendment? Why do you believe that the U.S. Supreme Court hears these cases if the “illegal” can be summarily denied all Constitutional rights? How would they do that in practice on probable cause? Because they spoke Spanish? Did you read Plyler v. Doe? To insist that the Constitution does not apply to the “illegal” only shows an inability to accept the facts.
Wow.
In a stunning reversal of lower appellate court decisions, the Supreme Court ruled in the government’s favor on February 23, 1999. In a decision reminiscent of the Japanese internment cases decades ago, the Court sent a chilling message to immigrant communities across the United States by holding that, “as a general matter – and assuredly in the present case – **an alien unlawfully in this country has no constitutional right to assert selective enforcement as a defense against his deportation.” What the decision boils down to is one simple, clear message: immigrants have no First Amendment rights. **The US Supreme Court sent the LA Eight back to immigration court where the government will soon begin to prosecute their deportation case once more.
merip.org/mer/mer212/212_butterfield.html
The Supreme Court sharply limited the First Amendment rights of illegal immigrants yesterday, ruling that people here unlawfully cannot shield themselves from deportation by claiming the government is trying to banish them simply because of their controversial political views.
washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/supcourt/stories/court022599.htm
 
Immigration is a complicated issue and the subject of much debate. There is no easy solution to the problem of illegal immigration. Yes, illegal immigrants are breaking the law. But what drives them to do such a thing? Desperation! The majority of illegals do not come here with the intent of violating the law. They come here seeking some of the basic necessities every human being should have; clothes, food, a decent home. Poverty forces many of them to leave their homes and families to find better economic opportunities, opportunities that are vrtually non-existent in their own lands.

Coming here illegally is no cake walk. The journey to the U.S is a perilous one and many of them die. They sell whatever they have in order to pay a “coyote” to bring them here, but many are left stranded in the desert and left to die. Those that manage to come here live in constant fear of being deported and are forced to take jobs that pay wages no American would accept. Their illegal status makes them ideal victims of exploitation. But this is a price many are willing to pay to escape the grip of poverty and help the families they left behind. Many who virulently oppose illegal immigrants patronize businesses that hire them and thus benefit from their labor.

No human being should be denied basic medical care, whether they are native, legal, or illegal. I cannot fathom how anyone bearing the name of Christian and claiming to have the love of God in their hearts can support such a measure. I am not an immigrant. I am a tax-paying native born American who is not bothered if my taxes help pay for the medical care of any person - native, legal, illegal - that truly needs it.

As Christians, our opinion of immigrants and immigration policy should always be informed by the virtue of charity. Our immigration policy should be strictly guided by security concerns and the welfare of the nation, not racism or bigotry. It also has to be based on reality and practical. There are millions of illegal immigrants who live in the U.S and many of them have worked here for many years. Many of them also have American born children. These kids should not pay for the sins of their parents and no immigration policy should be so cruel as to destroy a family. May God bless you all.

God Bless,
Michael
 
one way to stop the illegal immigration is to stop ‘anchor babies’. canada had the same problem with chineese illegals who would purposely have babies to become citizens. we are pretty stupid to allow citizenship when parents themselves are not citizens.
 
It would be easier to make it legal to cross the border.
It would be easier to find a reasonable, charitable, practical, and fair way of dealing with illegal immigrants that are already here. This does not mean, however, that we should have an open border. We should find ways of preventing further illegal immigration.

God Bless,
Michael
 
one way to stop the illegal immigration is to stop ‘anchor babies’. canada had the same problem with chineese illegals who would purposely have babies to become citizens. we are pretty stupid to allow citizenship when parents themselves are not citizens.
So how would you enforce this in the case of a child born in this country and educated here? Deprive him of his citizenship and deport him to a country that he is unfamiliar with? A place where he will most likely face poverty and hunger?

God Bless,
Michael
 
You’ve said that the Constitutional protections were limited to US citizens. Obviously that is wrong since there are an array of cases involving non-citizens in the Supreme Court. There are also cases involving the “illegal”. The Freedom of Religion comes under the First Amendment So when you suggest that they have no such right you are wrong. They have Fifth Amendment rights that protects them from self incrimination. They have Fouth Amendment rights under “probable cause” and they also have Fourteenth Amendment rights as to the “Equal Protection Clause” as shown in Plyler v. Doe.

NO MATTER how you spin it, the “illegal” have Constitutional rights! If you were correct then none of the above rights would exist, but they do. And no, if excludable, it won’t protect them from deportation. Get it straight!
 
It’s kind of standard that children are the citizens of countries they were born in, would you have that changed? Incidentally, Canada, at least until a few years ago, had no qualms deporting the non-citizen parent (the parent could decide to take the child along or leave him/her behind).
 
It would be easier to make it legal to cross the border.
Easier, less expensive, more effective, better for the economy, better for society, consistent with the Rule of Law, more security conscious, most reasonable, humane and most Christian.
 
Easier, less expensive, more effective, better for the economy, better for society, consistent with the Rule of Law, more security conscious, most reasonable, humane and most Christian.
Yeah, but then we’d have to share our blessings…:rolleyes:
 
So how would you enforce this in the case of a child born in this country and educated here? Deprive him of his citizenship and deport him to a country that he is unfamiliar with? A place where he will most likely face poverty and hunger?
proof of citizenship should be required in any public school. otherwise the parents should pay up front the cost of education. this would favor legal immigration.

the same costs should be charged to illegals in hospitals. unless they can pay the cost, they should be deported.
 
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