Immodest dress comment

[Arlene]

This is a tough one. Although you may be right, the comment really needs to come from another woman to be heard. It’s very easy for a woman to ignore or be offended by a comment like this coming from a man.

There are just some things that only women can say.

hmm, I’m not sure about that. Most women who dress that way are doing it because they want to be noticed by men. How refreshing to have a man tell her it’s not what he wants to see.

Maybe something along the lines of, “Personally, I prefer to have some things left to the imagination, but the color is very pretty”

My own personality tends to be a little sarcastic, and depending on my relationship with the other person, I might say something like, “That dress really makes your eyes look awesome… Too bad no one is looking at your eyes.”

 

[chevalier]

hmm, I’m not sure about that. Most women who dress that way are doing it because they want to be noticed by men. How refreshing to have a man tell her it’s not what he wants to see.

Maybe something along the lines of, “Personally, I prefer to have some things left to the imagination, but the color is very pretty”

My own personality tends to be a little sarcastic, and depending on my relationship with the other person, I might say something like, “That dress really makes your eyes look awesome… Too bad no one is looking at your eyes.”

While those lines look nice and tactful, they also make the matter relative, as in it’s only just your opinion. That’s not exactly what we think because we don’t really think it’s up to people. That’s why I think it’s better to be a bit more direct.

 

[ack]

I can see what you’re saying, because in the past, I’ve heard women say that a complement from a man has more effect than we realize.

Still, we’re had previous discussions of modesty on CAF, and the most violently angry posts have always come from women who do not want men telling them want to wear, and they state that they would never associate with a man in real life who criticizes a woman’s clothing. However, I’ve noticed the reception is better when one woman is giving another woman tips on modesty. From this, I concluded that modesty advice from another woman is much better received.

hmm, I’m not sure about that. Most women who dress that way are doing it because they want to be noticed by men. How refreshing to have a man tell her it’s not what he wants to see.

Maybe something along the lines of, “Personally, I prefer to have some things left to the imagination, but the color is very pretty”

My own personality tends to be a little sarcastic, and depending on my relationship with the other person, I might say something like, “That dress really makes your eyes look awesome… Too bad no one is looking at your eyes.”

 

[aball1035]

I can see what you’re saying, because in the past, I’ve heard women say that a complement from a man has more effect than we realize.

Still, we’re had previous discussions of modesty on CAF, and the most violently angry posts have always come from women who do not want men telling them want to wear, and they state that they would never associate with a man in real life who criticizes a woman’s clothing. However, I’ve noticed the reception is better when one woman is giving another woman tips on modesty. From this, I concluded that modesty advice from another woman is much better received.

I know what you mean. These woman sometimes classify people’s criticizm of them as “verbal abuse” if they’re that far away from Christ

 

[SophieG]

I used to reply “You should put some more clothes on.” I’m sorry, but I’m a Padre Pio fan. Everybody started to get a very nasty impression of me, so I changed it to “Well, it’s a bit tight, but I like the colors!” Is this the right way to go, or what should I do?

Why don’t you say, “Well, personally, it’s not my favorite kind of clothes–I’m a Padre Pio fan” and see what the responses are?

 

[Mark77]

I definately think you should stick with “it’s a bit tight, but I like the colors.”
I commend your virtue, but lets face it, your not going to change anybodys mind about propriety by telling them they need to cover up. I think trying to find *something * positive to say about it is a goood approach.

I disagree. We are called to witness to the Truth! My jaded mind has been changed by courageous people, especially some incredibly courageous women, who have shown love while not lying to me!

Your witness to the Truth, to the fact that they are buying into the lies that are spread by those who do not love them, but will profit from their demise, is showing your love for them.

How many beautiful women have listened to the lies and sold their beauty for passing acceptance, sold their love to someone who did not love them? How many bear the scars of broken hearts, of pain and abandonment, of abortion, because they wanted to be seen as desirable?

“i am not worthy to receive You, but only say the Word and I shall be healed!!!”

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

Mark

 

[Student09]

I’m a college student and used to dress immodestly. My parents never said anything about it. In high school a lovely girl I knew who was Catholic said to me one time, “That shirt really isn’t you.” I knew she was referring to modesty. At the time, I was offended, but with reflection I came to see how loving that comment was. I deeply appreciate it. Another comment from a loving person in my life caused me to start covering myself up, and I realized I never really wanted to dress like that - I was just giving in to ideas about how I was “supposed” to dress.

So take it from me - they may not realize it right now, but you are doing these girls a favor by telling them (kindly and lovingly) the truth.

 

[Student09]

Oh, and I agree with everything Mark said.

It’s the people who love us who tell us the things we don’t want to hear - and thereby save us from ourselves!

 

[Arlene]

I can see what you’re saying, because in the past, I’ve heard women say that a complement from a man has more effect than we realize.

Still, we’re had previous discussions of modesty on CAF, and the most violently angry posts have always come from women who do not want men telling them want to wear, and they state that they would never associate with a man in real life who criticizes a woman’s clothing. However, I’ve noticed the reception is better when one woman is giving another woman tips on modesty. From this, I concluded that modesty advice from another woman is much better received.

I agree that it can be a control issue to have a guy tell you what to wear, but in the OP’s case, he was asked his opinion. I always say, don’t ask me my opinion if you don’t want to hear it.

 

[chevalier]

I agree that it can be a control issue to have a guy tell you what to wear, but in the OP’s case, he was asked his opinion. I always say, don’t ask me my opinion if you don’t want to hear it.

True. Asking for an opinion and only wanting an opinion one likes, is a control issue.

 

[apromisemade]

I’m a college student and used to dress immodestly. My parents never said anything about it. In high school a lovely girl I knew who was Catholic said to me one time, “That shirt really isn’t you.” I knew she was referring to modesty. At the time, I was offended, but with reflection I came to see how loving that comment was. I deeply appreciate it. Another comment from a loving person in my life caused me to start covering myself up, and I realized I never really wanted to dress like that - I was just giving in to ideas about how I was “supposed” to dress.

So take it from me - they may not realize it right now, but you are doing these girls a favor by telling them (kindly and lovingly) the truth.

I guess it all depends on how you word it. “That shirt isn’t really you” isn’t quite the same as “you need to put more clothes on.” Although in this case they would be rooted in the same sentiment.

 

[manualman]

Try this: think ahead about any woman who knows you well enough to be likely to ask you such a question (it’s rarely asked of strangers). For each of them, find an attractive element of hers that she ought to emphasize in her overall look.

If she puts on something immodest and asks

“How does this dress look on me?”

“Sheila, it’s a knockout, but I’m not sure it’s your best choice. I’ve noticed that when you smile at a guy your left eye does almost a stealth wink that’s very fun and unique. You’d attract a better class of guy with that than with this dress. It’s a shame no guys are going to notice your eyes tonight.”

She may still be offended, but if she knows her looks well she’ll eventually realize that you’ve complimented her, not insulted her. This will only work if you’re prepared with an element of her looks that deserves a sincere compliment. Good luck!

 

[aball1035]

I guess the thing is though that they want to look sexy, and try to have guys notice their bodies (at least from a guys perspective)

 

[peregrinator_it]

I guess the thing is though that they want to look sexy, and try to have guys notice their bodies (at least from a guy’s perspective)

Hmmm… having read through this thread, I don’t think it’s possible to give you a useful answer without some context. Do you go to a Catholic college/university? Are your friends Catholic? (I would assume so, if you’re referring to your admiration for Padre Pio…)

If your friends are not Catholic, or are not well-catechized, they may not have much of an idea of what modesty is, let alone value it. If this is the case, I would think that harshly admonishing them would accomplish nothing good, only convince them that you’re not a very nice person.

If you’ll give a hearing to the perspective of a woman considerably older than yourself, (and somone else has pointed this out, too) most normal women do not actually want to be objectified by men, however much their clothing might scream that they do.

Women who are not Catholic, or who have not been well catechized, have been taught-- at the feet of the popular media and the fashion industry and by the example of those around them (men as well as women, sorry)-- that men are attracted to “sexy” women and the way to catch the attention of any eligible men is to choose clothing that flaunt their bodies.

What these young ladies want is to garner attention from young gentlemen like yourself- the immodest clothing (in their minds) is simply a means to that end. Thus, telling them “that’s immodest” or “you should put some more clothes on” is going to seem a) beside the point and b) mean to them, so I would try to put more gently.

If you want to teach them a little bit about modesty, it would be wise not merely to admonish them when they wear immodest clothing, but complement when they wear clothes that are not revealing- or if not friends, find a modestly dressed woman in the room to speak positively about.

(Although, as an aside, I cannot understand your friends anyway. I would have had all my toenails forcibly removed as an undergraduate, before I asked some guy (no matter how good a friend he was) what he thought of my dress, much less ask repeatedly.)

 

[kevinsgirl]

“Honestly? I think that outfit distracts from your beauty”

In high school a lovely girl I knew who was Catholic said to me one time, “That shirt really isn’t you.” I knew she was referring to modesty. At the time, I was offended, but with reflection I came to see how loving that comment was. I deeply appreciate it. Another comment from a loving person in my life caused me to start covering myself up, and I realized I never really wanted to dress like that - I was just giving in to ideas about how I was “supposed” to dress.

I think these are both kind, charitable, tactful ways to pay a compliment but also encourage your friends to be better!

What about Padre Pio? Oftentimes his comments seemed extremely uncaring. (throwing people out of onfessionals and yelling at them) What should we think of that?

But you’re not Padre Pio… Yes, sometimes saints responded very markedly to the things those around them were doing, but I also feel that those saints were much closer to God than I am. Until I find myself with the stigmata, I’m going to take the encouraging, tactful route. I’m not perfect, and rather than let my emotions run away with me, I prefer to err on the side of charity.

 

[peregrinator_it]

Still, we’re had previous discussions of modesty on CAF, and the most violently angry posts have always come from women who do not want men telling them want to wear, and they state that they would never associate with a man in real life who criticizes a woman’s clothing.

I agree with the above poster’s conclusion (though for different reasons) but I don’t the above is a fair characterization of most modesty discussions on this forum.

It seems to me that what elicits the most irate responses (especially from women who do try to practice modesty) is not the “some man telling me what to wear” aspect of the conversation, but the extreme standards of dress presented as “modesty” by some posters. E.g. the illogical, unsupported anti-pants arguments. (Which, of course, are harder to take from men, who don’t generally spend much time in long skirts.)

This is why I’ve asked the OP to give some context above.

It’s one thing to try and point out to clueless female college students with no notion of modesty, that their clothes are not appropriate, but challenging whatever standards of modesty young practicing Catholic ladies might be following is something else entirely.

 

[peregrinator_it]

But you’re not Padre Pio… Yes, sometimes saints responded very markedly to the things those around them were doing, but I also feel that those saints were much closer to God than I am. Until I find myself with the stigmata, I’m going to take the encouraging, tactful route. I’m not perfect, and rather than let my emotions run away with me, I prefer to err on the side of charity.

Exactly

 

[Mimi]

“Honestly? I think that outfit distracts from your beauty”

Good one!

I recently bought Cleavage Coverups (the 3-basic-color pkg).
www.cleavagecoverups.com
Comes with strips of fabric tape to attach the triangle of fabric to fill the gap in a blouse or top with a deep V-neck opening. Maybe you could get them for your female friends for a birthday present?

These are v practical, since in warmer weather another shirt underneath isn’t necessary to get the layered look. (Yeah, the layered look is Very hip these days.)

I’ve seen mothers (!) with little kids at church with deep V necklines. When they bend over to pick up a toddler, they are exposing themselves even more. One gets the impression they are exhibitionists. Don’t they think of being a “near occasion of sin” to the males in the congregation (esp. the priest and/or deacon)??

There’s even a demo at this site.

Mimi

 

[aball1035]

I agree with the above poster’s conclusion (though for different reasons) but I don’t the above is a fair characterization of most modesty discussions on this forum.

It seems to me that what elicits the most irate responses (especially from women who do try to practice modesty) is not the “some man telling me what to wear” aspect of the conversation, but the extreme standards of dress presented as “modesty” by some posters. E.g. the illogical, unsupported anti-pants arguments. (Which, of course, are harder to take from men, who don’t generally spend much time in long skirts.)

This is why I’ve asked the OP to give some context above.

It’s one thing to try and point out to clueless female college students with no notion of modesty, that their clothes are not appropriate, but challenging whatever standards of modesty young practicing Catholic ladies might be following is something else entirely.

I’m the only Catholic one-the rest are loose Protestants or atheists. They know that they dress immodestly, but they still do it.

One of them is in a “Woman’s Studies” class, and complains bitterly about how society objectifies women (which it does), but nonetheless, she dresses to show almost as much as possible. Kind of ironic.

 

[dakotagirl]

You should say “Oh dear, I really prefer modest styles” in a regretful tone.