Immoral and the p-boy mansion?

[litllulu]

Again, thank you for all your prayers and comments.

To answer some of the questions. Yes, we do have children who thank God are unaware of the situation. To clarify, my husband is not a poker player. He occasionally watches on TV. The main reason for going is to say, I have been to the mansion.

As for the actual invite this is a whole other issue. On a flight he sat next to a single woman whose brother is playing in the tournament. After chatting and even meeting the brothers wife he was invited. I do have a problem with this and we have argued about this too. His claim is he is not attracted and he would be going with the whole family. I believe married men/women should not go anywhere with the opposite sex without their spouse meeting them. Especially not strangers. He claims he is not attracted which I do believe but the whole principal is the problem.

To get back to the point. We have spoken and he is not going to go. However, this is a BIG however, he has made is clear I am wrong. First, b/c I don’t trust him. Second, I don’t understand what it means to sin. He said doing an immoral act is sinning. Going to a place where immoral acts occur is not a sin for him nor wrong b/c he is not planning to do anything. Third, I am an unloving wife, b/c he said if I wanted to do something even if it meant going to an abortion clinic for a craft show he would be ok with that.

Besides all that, he tried to accuse me of being a hypocrite b/c I have been to vegas back in college. I didn’t attend vulgar shows but the fact that I went to a place of “sin” makes me a hypocrite.

I am sorry for this long reply. I really am confused and a little depressed. I feel I don’t have the convincing material for my husband to understand I am being a loving wife.

God Bless.

He’ll get over it!

 

[txspouse]

Ask how he would feel if you went to a male strip club only for the food before the strippers went on?

Unfortunately, he would say ok, b/c he “trusts” me. However, I would not even think about going to such a place.

Another problem is that he has spoken to many people and of course they say I am being unreasonable. These are non-catholic (not that they are bad people) but the moral foundation may differ.

God Bless.

 

[Black_Jaque]

Just to say, “I’ve been in the playboy mansion” THAT’s his reason for wanting to go!??!?

I’d hammer on that. What a stupid reason.

How stupid does he think you are?

Another problem is that he has spoken to many people and of course they say I am being unreasonable.

Just tell your husband, “You darn right I’m being unreasonable! When it comes to my husband’s immortal soul, the fidelity to the marriage, I am totally unreasonable.”

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

Unfortunately, he would say ok, b/c he “trusts” me. However, I would not even think about going to such a place.

I think that “trust” is not the issue when it comes to a situation like this. I understand what you are saying, but the degrading nature of this activity is (unfortunately) forgotten about by most people.

Another problem is that he has spoken to many people and of course they say I am being unreasonable. These are non-catholic (not that they are bad people) but the moral foundation may differ.

I can here the conversations now:

“Dude, why is your wife acting like this?”
“Why is she such a prude.”
“She knows you love her and she should let you go have fun playing poker, that is all this is, an awesome chance to play poker.”
“Road trip baby!”
“Who cares what she says, this is about you.”

Such a warped mentality that we can have. This is about you, you and him and your marriage. If he respects you, he should respect your concerns and your feelings.

Achew

God Bless

Thank you!

 

[mariam1976]

I would say… please appreciate the fact that he is not going because you told him so… and let him know that you respect and love him for doing this for you… i dont know how you will accomplish this without seeming to be condescending or

many a times, we do not appreciate that our husbands are being loving by doing things like this… I am probably going to be shunned by everyone for saying this…

 

[hkatzen]

I am a father of four and husband of one and there is no way I would ever think of going to a place like that. Even when I was single I would not enter such a place. And I was a heathen back then! Two things I would want to ask is why does it need to be at the mansion and ask him to visualize if Christ was standing next to him would he go. Because he is!!! Good luck, I’ll pray for him. Stand your ground. Because nothing good can come from going to such a place. If he is a believer tell him to search scriptures it talks about such places.

 

[rtconstant]

Here is my opinion.

First off DO NOT forbid him to go. That would be a mistake. Not because you don’t have good reasons to be against it. You’re objections are completely reasonable. However, neither you or he have the right to forbid the other to do anything. If things are boiling down to ultimatums then there are larger issues a foot. Making demands will cause resentment and it will tax your standing within the relationship. Again understand I say that while acknowledging that you are the one in the right here (and you are).

The issue here is that you have made it clear to your husband that you do not want him to go. In truth that really should be all the reason that he needs. Not becuase you demanded it but because it bothers you. There should be very few (if any) things that one wants to do so badly that they would willing knowlingly hurt their spouse.

Issue number two the man doesn’t need to be hanging out with women that arent you. Is it possible that a man can have a completely innocent relationship with a woman? Yes. Is that relationship worth fostering (understandable) doubt in one’s spouse? No.

Make your feelings clear to him and it sounds like you have. That’s good. Also be sure to tell him exactly why it bothers you. This both lets him see the very real issues you have and it’s is instructional to him if these are things he truly hasn’t considered. Also since he’s dropped the “trust” bomb on you catch that baby and throw it back.

After you break down to him exactly why you don’t like this feel free to let him know that it is exactly a trust issue. He is acting out in a way that demonstrates behavior that is at worst untrustworthy and at best apathetic. Ask him if these are really the signals he wants to send.

While I disagree with ulitmatums you should by all means not hold back on what all this means to you. He needs to know. How he’ll react I don’t know. It depends on him but he’ll get over it. If he doesn’t something else is going on.

 

[rayne89]

THE SIXTH AND NINTH COMMANDMENT

• Did I willfully entertain impure thoughts?
• Did I consent to evil desires against virtue of purity, even though I may not have carried them out? Were there any circumstances that aggravated the sin: affinity (relationship by marriage), consanguinity (blood relationship), either the married state or the consecration to God of a person involved?
• Did I engage in impure conversations? Did I start them?
• **Did I look for fun in forms of entertainment that places me in proximate occasions of sin, such as certain dances, movies, shows, or books with immoral contents? Did I frequent houses of ill-repute or keep bad company? **
• Did I realize that I might already have been committing a sin by placing myself in a proximate occasion of sin, such as sharing a room with a person I find sexually attractive, or being alone with such a person in circumstances that could lead to sin?

The above is from the examination of conscience provided on my parishes website. Here’s the link
saintcyrils.org/confession.htm
Your hubby may want to review it in it’s entirety.

 

[littlepaperstar]

I post on another forum where a member said she was invited to go there for some party or whatever. They told her she could bring a friend but she had to send a picture in of her friend for approval. They wanted to make sure her friend was attractive enough otherwise the friend couldn’t go. They don’t do this with the men. I guess the men just need a wallet

 

[whatevergirl]

Can I say NO based on moral ground?

My husband has been invited to a professional poker game to be held at the playboy mansion. I consider the place immoral. He said it is only a poker game and there will be nothing immoral, aka, inappropriate dressing taking place. However, if there is any “inappropriate dressing” happening he will leave. I have said no b/c the mansion produces immoral things. He said, I just don’t trust him.

I was “shocked” he would ask to go and I am confused why I feel bad saying, no.

Any prayers or comments are so appreciated.

.
God Bless.

Don’t feel bad saying no. That place is a joke. Not a place for a Christian man/woman…married or not, in my opinion.

 

[Goth_Catholic]

I’d let my husband go and I’d go with him.

I’m kidding, although i was entertaining the thought as I read the posts. I think saying that playboy abuses women is wrong. Playboy doesn’t automatically mean totally nude women. Are underwere models immortal? Belive it or not playboy can do tasteful non nude photos that actually turn out beatifully.

Lets not forget the Renissance, which began in our beloved Italy. The same person who painted the Sistine chapel, also did “the David”.

Nudity does not have to be evil. Some of the women who pose for playboy are … but others are respectable young women who are comfterable enough in their own bodies to bare some/all.

Now I’m probably gonna be flamed for this. Bring it on.

 

[txspouse]

Here is my opinion.

First off DO NOT forbid him to go. That would be a mistake. Not because you don’t have good reasons to be against it. You’re objections are completely reasonable. However, neither you or he have the right to forbid the other to do anything. If things are boiling down to ultimatums then there are larger issues a foot. Making demands will cause resentment and it will tax your standing within the relationship. Again understand I say that while acknowledging that you are the one in the right here (and you are).

The issue here is that you have made it clear to your husband that you do not want him to go. In truth that really should be all the reason that he needs. Not becuase you demanded it but because it bothers you. There should be very few (if any) things that one wants to do so badly that they would willing knowlingly hurt their spouse.

Issue number two the man doesn’t need to be hanging out with women that arent you. Is it possible that a man can have a completely innocent relationship with a woman? Yes. Is that relationship worth fostering (understandable) doubt in one’s spouse? No.

Make your feelings clear to him and it sounds like you have. That’s good. Also be sure to tell him exactly why it bothers you. This both lets him see the very real issues you have and it’s is instructional to him if these are things he truly hasn’t considered. Also since he’s dropped the “trust” bomb on you catch that baby and throw it back.

After you break down to him exactly why you don’t like this feel free to let him know that it is exactly a trust issue. He is acting out in a way that demonstrates behavior that is at worst untrustworthy and at best apathetic. Ask him if these are really the signals he wants to send.

While I disagree with ulitmatums you should by all means not hold back on what all this means to you. He needs to know. How he’ll react I don’t know. It depends on him but he’ll get over it. If he doesn’t something else is going on.

Thank you for this post. For me, this really sums up all that I am trying to tell him. I love my husband so much and the last thing I want is for him to feel like I have forbidden or demanded he not do something. I DO want him to understand that this is our marriage to cherish and protect. Everyday there are evils ready to tear it apart.

God Bless.

 

[whatevergirl]

I’d let my husband go and I’d go with him.

I’m kidding, although i was entertaining the thought as I read the posts. I think saying that playboy abuses women is wrong. Playboy doesn’t automatically mean totally nude women. Are underwere models immortal? Belive it or not playboy can do tasteful non nude photos that actually turn out beatifully.

Lets not forget the Renissance, which began in our beloved Italy. The same person who painted the Sistine chapel, also did “the David”.

Nudity does not have to be evil. Some of the women who pose for playboy are … but others are respectable young women who are comfterable enough in their own bodies to bare some/all.

Now I’m probably gonna be flamed for this. Bring it on.

I won’t flame you. lol I think your take on it is interesting, but it’s pretty common that immorality is at the top of the menu at the Playboy mansion. I mean, most of the women are dressed as if sex is on their minds …and should be at the top of everyone’s minds. There was a time when my husband read Playboy, but as a married, Christian man…he would have a hard time telling his kids…‘live moral lives,’ but daddy is going to the Playboy mansion. (also the reason he gave up reading the magazine)

A famous saint once said…‘witness for the faith, and use words if necessary.’ Hanging out at the PB mansion contradicts one’s value system, if he/she is trying to live a wholesome lifestyle.

I agree with rtconstant that I wouldn’t forbid it, but wouldn’t feel bad stating your feeling on it.

 

[whatevergirl]

And your husband’s reaction…‘you don’t trust me’ is not fair to say to you, really. Here’s the thing…the thrill of saying he went to the PB mansion will be very fleeting (and there is a thrill for some men of saying, I went to the PB mansion, etc) but the hurt (even if it’s minor) that he causes you in that process-- should matter more.

Really, end of the story right there.

 

[vester444]

First off all, he is most likely going just for the novelty of saying, Hey I went to the mansion!!!

and I would agree with him that just because you are in a place where other people are sinning doesnt mean you are. Thank Goodness, or else I wouldn’t be able to even work in an office, heck there are sinners everywhere - Playboy mansion to grocery store! I mean the grocery store has scandelous magazines, but I bet we all shop there right?

I dont think he should go without you though, and certinaly not with someone else’s wife, thats just wierd.

Bottom line though is that he isnt going. You dont have any ability to MAKE him do anything- and he is making a choice now to not go - be thankful for that - since that is what you want. And drop it. Dont bother him about it anymore. He did what you asked, now leave him alone.

Dont be depressed. He obviously loves you. He would rather be with you and do what you want than go somewhere with his buddies - what else do you need?

Vester

 

[rwoehmke]

What’s he got between his ears besides pine knots. So much good fun stuff out there and he wants to play/watch poker at a Playboy Mansion. That is fun? Maybe for idiots and callow kids who don’t know better. Watch’in grass grow would be a step up. Maybe he will get smarter when he gets a little older.

 

[Jay2]

Hugh Hefner took hold of a cultural swing/phenomenon, and promoted it into the standard of what the “hip & successful” man should be. Successful men, gorgeous women… the whole sub-culture emulated “James Bond 007”.
(My Mom & her friends did a fundraiser/dance/play for the the local hospital in “bunny” suits!.. there was nothing wrong with this… at the time.)

I’m a product of this era… Late '60’s/ early '70’s… back when having an American Express card was truly a statement of position. A man that had a PB Club Card, and entertained clients at the Clubs was really “doing it right”.

As a kid I had dinner at the downtown Chicago club many times, my Dad & I flew our Beech to the Lake Geneva WI club & airport many times.

So yes, there is some intrinsic value to being able to say “I’ve been to the Mansion”.

The question is trust. Do you trust your husband enough to go to the icon of “Bond… James Bond”, and come home clean?

 

[JezuUfamTobie]

The question is trust. Do you trust your husband enough to go to the icon of “Bond… James Bond”, and come home clean?

This is not a question of trusting.

This is a question of behaving in a trustworthy fashion.

Speaking as a young lady, I’d personally rather have a gravel omelette for breakfast every day for the rest of my life than marry a man who sees “intrinsic value” in impressing the worldly by tipping his hat to any of the many masters of hedonism and degradation.

“Wherever your treasure lies…”

 

[mariam1976]

This is not a question of trusting.

This is a question of behaving in a trustworthy fashion.

Speaking as a young lady, I’d personally rather have a gravel omelette for breakfast every day for the rest of my life than marry a man who sees “intrinsic value” in impressing the worldly by tipping his hat to any of the many masters of hedonism and degradation.

“Wherever your treasure lies…”

i totally agree with you… trust is built based on your actions…

many people think that you should be worthy of trust because you say that you are trustworthy…

 

[rayne89]

This is not a question of trusting.

This is a question of behaving in a trustworthy fashion.

Speaking as a young lady, I’d personally rather have a gravel omelette for breakfast every day for the rest of my life than marry a man who sees “intrinsic value” in impressing the worldly by tipping his hat to any of the many masters of hedonism and degradation.

“Wherever your treasure lies…”

:clapping: My thoughts exactly! I’d add it’s even more a matter of respect of women especially your wife. Come on I mean what does Playboy symbolize -objectifying women. Treating womens bodies as things to be used. That’s what you want to brag about and be associated with? That what you want your claim to fame to be?

I read this thread to my hubby yesterday and I got this look -. He thought the whole thing sounded fishy. A guy gets invited by a single woman on a plane to go to the playboy mansion to play poker. And he* really* wants to go -even though he doesn’t even play poker. He couldn’t believe a Catholic man (especially a married one) would consider the possibilty that this was remotely ok. And he found it even more ridiculous that this man would think that his wife would be in anyway ok with this.