IMO... It's better to be Protestant, but tell me why it's better to be Catholic

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TriuneUnity said:
I am not sure what the quotation from St. John has to do with it, directly. Yes, Holy Absolution is one of the means by which faith is created in the heart. Absolution is the message of the gospel (as are Baptism and the Lord’s Supper). Faith is not created in a vaccuum… it comes by means of word and sacrament.
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What it has to do with it is that future mortal sins must be confessed in the Sacrament of Confession.
 
One_in_Christ said:
Protestant believe that Christ atoned for our past, present, and future sins. Why would Jesus only pay for past and present sins, and not future sins? Was the work on the cross too weak to pay for them all? How are we to work out our salvation in fear and trembling? Or, who is working in us while we are working out our salvation in fear and trembling. All of Scripture is the complete story.
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Brother, Jesus died for the sins of all mand kind ,He redeemed all man kind , His death for our sins redeemed and saved us’ BUT, only those who, by God’s actual grace ,accepted that redemption are saved, He died for all of us. What you are missing is , that the process does not stop there. Let’s talk about present and future sins. YES, he forgives them but only if, when we sin now or in the future, we repent of them and seek forgiveness other wise we burn in hell.
I understand that what you said in your above post is what the believers of Once Saved always Saved are all about,That is false doctrine.

We work out our Salvation in fear and trembling, as Paul says,throught the gift of sanctifying grace which God gives us when we are Baptized and justified. It is a life long process, the Holy Spirit working in us to make us holy.

You want to learn Catholic Theology from some one other than a simple person like me??? Open a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Listen to what the teaching authority of the Catholic Church has to say(The Magisterium) If you do it ,calling upon the aid of the Holy Spirit, you will come away converted.👍;):cool::pGod love you! CArlan
 
Loboto-Me said:
What I don’t understand is why in the world would Jesus (resurected) tell Apostles this:

22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

If Jesus felt that we didn’t have a stake at our own salvation, He wouldn’t care about sin since He’d already have taken care of it all through his crucifixion some days prior.
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Yeah…what would even be the purpose for having a bible then? He could have inspired a page that just stated “praise me on Sunday, because of me, all you are going to be in heaven so have fun in your lives”.
 
Carlan said:
Brother, Jesus died for the sins of all mand kind ,He redeemed all man kind , His death for our sins redeemed and saved us’ BUT, only those who, by God’s actual grace ,accepted that redemption are saved, He died for all of us. What you are missing is , that the process does not stop there. Let’s talk about present and future sins. YES, he forgives them but only if, when we sin now or in the future, we repent of them and seek forgiveness other wise we burn in hell.
I understand that what you said in your above post is what the believers of Once Saved always Saved are all about,That is false doctrine.

We work out our Salvation in fear and trembling, as Paul says,throught the gift of sanctifying grace which God gives us when we are Baptized and justified. It is a life long process, the Holy Spirit working in us to make us holy.

You want to learn Catholic Theology from some one other than a simple person like me??? Open a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Listen to what the teaching authority of the Catholic Church has to say(The Magisterium) If you do it ,calling upon the aid of the Holy Spirit, you will come away converted.👍;):cool::pGod love you! CArlan
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Brother, this kind of Catholic theology makes no sense because it is short on common sense. If Jesus died for the sins of all mankind, and he redeemned all mankind, then end of story and the Catholic Faith appears to be preaching universalism. Unbelief is the real mortal sin which will destine most to Hell. Apart from Faith in His Son, there is no payment for sin, and no hope. Why would Jesus pay for the sins of those who will die in unbelief, if the unbeliever will receive just punishment for their own sins? God is not unjust in requiring paying twice for the same sins. What did Jesus accomplish in His life and death for sinners?

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. - Jesus
 
One_in_Christ said:
Brother, this kind of Catholic theology makes no sense because it is short on common sense. If Jesus died for the sins of all mankind, and he redeemned all mankind, then end of story and the Catholic Faith appears to be preaching universalism. Unbelief is the real mortal sin which will destine most to Hell. Apart from Faith in His Son, there is no payment for sin, and no hope. Why would Jesus pay for the sins of those who die in unbelief, if the unbeliever will receive just punishment for their own sins? God is not unjust in requiring paying twice for the same sins.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. - Jesus
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you are not listening, I did not say that when he redeemed man kind he saved man kind,
what I said was if by the grace of God man kind accepted his redemption then they would be saved . Obviously not all man kind has accepted Christ’s death on the cross for our sin.

yes, I believe your last paragraph, but you cannot leave out the rest of he story. I think you are being rather difficult. :rolleyes::shrug:Carlan
 
One_in_Christ said:
Brother, this kind of Catholic theology makes no sense because it is short on common sense. If Jesus died for the sins of all mankind, and he redeemned all mankind, then end of story and the Catholic Faith appears to be preaching universalism. Unbelief is the real mortal sin which will destine most to Hell. Apart from Faith in His Son, there is no payment for sin, and no hope. Why would Jesus pay for the sins of those who will die in unbelief, if the unbeliever will receive just punishment for their own sins? God is not unjust in requiring paying twice for the same sins. What did Jesus accomplish in His life and death for sinners?

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. - Jesus
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You are lumping together redemption and justification. Jesus Christ redeemed all mankind. It makes no difference if the gift is accepted or not, the price is paid. Justification comes with having faith in the work on Calvary. Sanctification is our growth in Christ. Protestants tend to lump these these three separate things together.
 
maesoph said:
I am very glad that I am Catholic because of the Theology Of The Body (TOB). It absolutely ROCKS. If you have a good marriage, you will catch on to TOB easily. If not, then you probably won’t get it.
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You’ll find that Martin Luther beat the RCC to the Theology of the Body by about 500 years… 🙂
 
OraLabora said:
And therein lies the problem. You think you are bypassing God’s judgement, or you think you know what His judgment will be before it happens. Which means you are usurping His role as sole judge.

You can’t be god, and serve God, at the same time.
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I did not say or imply that I was bypassing God’s judgement. I know my deeds will be judged. I just know that I am saved from hell. I did not say i was God.
 
One_in_Christ said:
Brother, this kind of Catholic theology makes no sense because it is short on common sense. If Jesus died for the sins of all mankind, and he redeemned all mankind, then end of story and the Catholic Faith appears to be preaching universalism. Unbelief is the real mortal sin which will destine most to Hell. Apart from Faith in His Son, there is no payment for sin, and no hope. Why would Jesus pay for the sins of those who will die in unbelief, if the unbeliever will receive just punishment for their own sins? God is not unjust in requiring paying twice for the same sins. What did Jesus accomplish in His life and death for sinners?

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. - Jesus
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2nd Adam, the Church doesn’t promote or teach universalism. Have you not learned anything from the last time you were here? If Christ only died for the elect, then He is not the new Adam but the new Noah.

P.S. Still waiting an answer from post 423. (link provided)
 
tweetymom said:
I did not say or imply that I was bypassing God’s judgement. I know my deeds will be judged. I just know that I am saved from hell. I did not say i was God.
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So your deeds will be judged, but you won’t go to hell.

What then will be your punishment for your bad deeds?

It sounds an awful lot like you’ve just admitted that you believe in… Purgatory.
 
OraLabora said:
So your deeds will be judged, but you won’t go to hell.

What then will be your punishment for your bad deeds?

It sounds an awful lot like you’ve just admitted that you believe in… Purgatory.
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Nope sorry do not believe in purgatory. My punisment will be whatever Jesus decides.
 
One_in_Christ said:
Protestant believe that Christ atoned for our past, present, and future sins. Why would Jesus only pay for past and present sins, and not future sins? Was the work on the cross too weak to pay for them all? How are we to work out our salvation in fear and trembling? Or, who is working in us while we are working out our salvation in fear and trembling. All of Scripture is the complete story.
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If Christ paid for our actual sins–past, present and future–then why did Christ Himself give the Apostles to forgive and retain sins (John 20:23) and St. James instruct his epistle to confess our sins to one another (James 5:15-16) if these actual sins are dealt with? How do you match up these Bible verses with your theology? Can you forgive a sin that hasn’t been committed yet?

Speaking of the Christ’s Sacrifice, was He too weak to redeem them all of humanity?
 
tweetymom said:
Nope sorry do not believe in purgatory. My punisment will be whatever Jesus decides.
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And where, or how, will He mete out this punishment? Heaven is not a place of punishment. Hell is a place of eternal punishment. Purgatory is a place of purification, of temporary punishment, to make us suitable for the Beatific Vision.

So it sounds an awful lot like Purgatory to me, which of course, is in fact where we are punished for the non-repented non-mortal sins still on our souls when we die. It could be a place, or a process; it doesn’t matter, but as one says, it is what it is, and what it is is Purgatory.

So, your choices, logically are:
  1. God doesn’t care about your un-repented sins when you die, he forgave you once and for all (the Protestant view), so you are NOT in fact punished for them, therefore no purgatory straight to heaven; if you hold this view your statement cannot be correct.
  2. God does care about your un-repented sins, and you go straight to hell for them regardless of what they are; no Christian I know of holds this view, and your statement of being punished but not going to hell, doesn’t fit this either;
  3. God does care about your un-repented sins; if they are mortal, you receive eternal punishment, and if they are not mortal, you go through a purification (punishment) for them that is not permanent but is expiatory. That is the Catholic view. And IMHO the correct one. And it happens to fit your statement (at least with regards to venial sin) that Jesus will judge you and punish you but won’t send you to hell.
Or you’re just making all of this up as you go along, following your sentiment rather than any kind of sound theological teaching either Catholic or Protestant. Which I think is more or less the only theory that fits you since you deny that you believe in Purgatory, even though what you wrote is a purification before entering heaven, which is what Purgatory is.

It doesn’t really sound like you’ve thought this one through very much.
 
CWBetts said:
You are lumping together redemption and justification. Jesus Christ redeemed all mankind. It makes no difference if the gift is accepted or not, the price is paid. Justification comes with having faith in the work on Calvary. Sanctification is our growth in Christ. Protestants tend to lump these these three separate things together.
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What do you guys mean by redemption or the redeemned ones. I understand that redemption only applies to those who are in Christ (believers).
 
OraLabora said:
And where, or how, will He mete out this punishment? Heaven is not a place of punishment. Hell is a place of eternal punishment. Purgatory is a place of purification, of temporary punishment, to make us suitable for the Beatific Vision.

So it sounds an awful lot like Purgatory to me, which of course, is in fact where we are punished for the non-repented non-mortal sins still on our souls when we die. It could be a place, or a process; it doesn’t matter, but as one says, it is what it is, and what it is is Purgatory.

So, your choices, logically are:
  1. God doesn’t care about your un-repented sins when you die, he forgave you once and for all (the Protestant view), so you are NOT in fact punished for them, therefore no purgatory straight to heaven; if you hold this view your statement cannot be correct.
  2. God does care about your un-repented sins, and you go straight to hell for them regardless of what they are; no Christian I know of holds this view, and your statement of being punished but not going to hell, doesn’t fit this either;
  3. God does care about your un-repented sins; if they are mortal, you receive eternal punishment, and if they are not mortal, you go through a purification (punishment) for them that is not permanent but is expiatory. That is the Catholic view. And IMHO the correct one. And it happens to fit your statement (at least with regards to venial sin) that Jesus will judge you and punish you but won’t send you to hell.
Or you’re just making all of this up as you go along, following your sentiment rather than any kind of sound theological teaching either Catholic or Protestant. Which I think is more or less the only theory that fits you since you deny that you believe in Purgatory, even though what you wrote is a purification before entering heaven, which is what Purgatory is.

It doesn’t really sound like you’ve thought this one through very much.
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Like I said I do not believe in purgayory. I believe we will all have the reward of heave. We will be questioned by God and have to answer for things we have not asked forgiveness for and that will be enough punishment for me to have to look in Christs eyes and see disappointment. Now if you believe in purgatory well good enough!
 
tweetymom said:
Nope sorry do not believe in purgatory. My punishment will be whatever Jesus decides.
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Christians with a believing Protestant theology mind set may not believe in Purgatory as you say, but you will have to experien ce it every bit as much as we Catholics,:p:yup::sad_yes: Peace, and I do hope your time in Purgatory will not last as long as the second coming,:eek::eek::rolleyes: here’s hoping! Carlan
 
Carlan said:
Christians with a believing Protestant theology mind set may not believe in Purgatory as you say, but you will have to experien ce it every bit as much as we Catholics,:p:yup::sad_yes: Peace, and I do hope your time in Purgatory will not last as long as the second coming,:eek::eek::rolleyes: here’s hoping! Carlan
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And hope yours doesn’ either,here’s hoping.
.
 
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