IMO... It's better to be Protestant, but tell me why it's better to be Catholic

[PJM]

=One in Christ;6383648]IMO…it’s better to be Protestant, but tell me why it’s better to be Catholic. But remember, Catholics and Protestants are one in Christ for those who actually are known by God through Christ. Please try to keep your responses grounded in official Catholic teaching. I’ll start:

1. It’s better to be Protestant because historic Protestant theology rest in the finished work of Christ for our eternal standing before God, We are justified by the person and work of Jesus Christ who earned our complete forgiveness and reconciliation for us, We are saved from God to God, and for God on the basis of the work of Jesus Christ. Therefore, historic

***So friend; why do the words “Redeemed” and Redeemer" appear so often in Scripture? Whay does God give you a mind, intellect and freewill?

Redeemed means heaven is NOW* accessible; not auotmatic salvation..

***I am a Catholic for all of the following reason which, by the way are both Biblically and secular-history proveable.

1. Our God; all- knowing, all-Wise and Perfect God, Willfully and specifically founded only one New Covenant; One New Church and One new Faith [Religion], that which can be proven to be today’s Catholic Church

The Bible as written by the end of the First Century and the Canon for the Bible in the early Forth Century; even then there was in existence only One Christian Faith; Catholism***.

Mt. 16:19: 19 I God singular] will give you [singular] the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you singular] bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Like it or not: God clearly gives the [all of the] key’s to the kingdom of haven to His CC. His words, not mine.

Eph. 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [singular] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; singular] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

This is BUT One of over 30 NT references for The One Church.

Only the Catholic Church has the ENTIRE Bible as Inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Only the CC has both Christ and the Holy Spirit’s active and ever-lasting Presence to insure Her turths and guide Her Faith.

**John 14: 16 ** And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you.

John 17: 14 " I [JESUS] have given them thy word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I do not pray that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth. As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.

ONLY the CC has all Seven Sacraments; all Instituted by Christ, and practices them validly and licitly, fully and completely. Including Jesus Himself in Catholic Holy Communion, and in Obedince to God’s very precise and specific COMMAND; plus the Sacrament of KNOWN FORGIVENESS. Not hoping, not guessing; KNOWING factually! And FYI… Yes it is GOD, not the Priest who forgives the sins; yet the role of th priest is nevertheless absolutely necessary, and Catholics know with absolute certainty there sins have been forgiven.

Once again; these are the Words of a Perfect God; Jesus himself. Unbeleif is denial of God!

**John.20 Verses 20 to 23: **"When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” That is precise, specific and frightningly clear friend.

BUT the single BIGGESTreason is Catholics get a glimse of Heaven, here on earth. Again in the WORDS of a PERFECT all-knowing, can’t be in error God…

Once again, denial of these precise, specific. clear words of our Perfect God, is denail OF GOD! His, not mine words. Deny God if you choose; I choose to know, love, serve, Obey and OH with such a Greatful Heart to receive God in the the most intimate and personal relationship possible; BY GOD’s Command, God’s Will; Catholics for a time become part of God, while God actually and really becomes part of them. IN Catholic Holy Communion.

John Chapter six: Don’'t TRANSLATE; READ THE WORGD CHRIST CHOOSE!

[53] So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; [54] he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.” And ys; it’s the same in your KJ Bible.

And if you’d actually like to know what v. 63 actually and really means, just ask.

How about them reasons friend?

Love and prayers for Faith and Understanding friends,

Pat**

 

[Dancelittleewok]

Maybe God’s moral law is a reflection of God’s holiness which cannot change. So, we are always accountable to God’s holiness in His law which demands punishment when we break it. God’s moral law shows us our sinfulness, driving us to Jesus Christ as Christians. It was never meant to be a means of salvation by keeping it. So, what do you mean by being bound by the moral law, and in what sense… since when we break a moral law we are in sin?

Under that kind of theology, then God gives us commandments that we cannot hope to achieve (even under His grace) which then questions His Goodness. Do you believe in TULIP?

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

Everything that happens isn’t always the will of God. If it was so, why are babies being aborted, women raped, families burned alive in pakistan? Is that the will of God?

Think of it this way, sometimes God ALLOWS things to happen even if it’s not His will. His ways are not our ways. Maybe he allowed this to happen so that His Church would buckle up? Maybe He ALLOWED the reformation to happen so that His children would not lose complete faith, figuring that although it’s a step back, they still have His Son to rely on and therefore the means to get back on the right path toward His Church eventually?

What do you think about the account of Job or Joseph with our current discussion? God is always in control but is never the author of evil. Do you believe the two earthquakes that recently happened were outside the sovereign will of God? These are just conversations between Christians to reflect how great of a God will share. Satan is just allowed to exists for reasons unknown to us. To answer your question about why women are raped, families burned alive in Pakistan, etc, we live in a fallen world which is in rebellion and sin against God. The day of wrath and judgement is getting near in which the world and its inhabitants will give an account. Only those in Christ will escape the wrath of God which is divine and holy judgment.

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

under that kind of theology, then god gives us commandments that we cannot hope to achieve (even under his grace) which then questions his goodness. Do you believe in tulip?

tulip?

 

[Dancelittleewok]

tulip?

The acronym to explain the tenets of Calvinism. See here from this website.

Do you mind addressing my points made in this post as well?

 

[Loboto-Me]

“We live in a fallen world” . We have always lived in a fallen world and unfortunately those who decided to do let go of God’s truth fell as well. Does this mean that God willed it to happen? Nuh Uh, just like all the other “fallen” things that have happened throughout history.

God said himself (somewhere in the bible) that he wouldn’t will disasters onto the world any longer, so no, I don’t think it was the will of God to allow hurricanes and earthquakes and all that stuff to happen.

Do you think God WILLED Lucifer to fall or did He just Allow it?

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

If Protestant, Catholic or Orthodox isn’t essential to being a Christian, then why assert that one is “better” (which you still haven’t defined that criteria) than the other? Either what you believe as a Christians is non-essential since what separates these three faith traditions are doctrinal matters or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t, then I don’t see why one would be better than the other if where we attend church is non-essential. Since you are asserting that Protestantism is better than Catholicism, then what believe and what faith tradition we are does matter.

Very good point. I see that all Christians know in part and should learn from other Christian communities and traditions than they belong to. For instances, many modern day Protestants should look to the Catholic Church on how they view tradition and church history, the creeds and confession… within a scope allowing them to remain distinctively Protestant. I think Catholics can look at the Protestant view of justification within range of still remaining Catholic. We are one in Christ with each one of us knowing in part, still struggling with sin that remains in us… which limits are perspective of our understanding of the Infinite.

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

“We live in a fallen world” . We have always lived in a fallen world and unfortunately those who decided to do let go of God’s truth fell as well. Does this mean that God willed it to happen? Nuh Uh, just like all the other “fallen” things that have happened throughout history.

God said himself (somewhere in the bible) that he wouldn’t will disasters onto the world any longer, so no, I don’t think it was the will of God to allow hurricanes and earthquakes and all that stuff to happen.

Do you think God WILLED Lucifer to fall or did He just Allow it?

Now you are getting to the mystery of evil which is simply a mystery. We did not always live in a fallen world in the begining prior to the fall. I think you are speaking about the promise that God would not destroy the entire world as in the flood with Noah. That’s really not the same thing as earthquakes and hurricanes. If God promised not to allow natural disasters, yet we still have them… we have to conclude that God is unable to keep His promises and He is not Almighty God in which the winds and waves obey Him. Your last question of allowing or will the fall… is the same, yet we have to add that God is not the author of evil.

 

[Loboto-Me]

If God promised not to allow natural disasters, yet we still have them… we have to conclude that God is unable to keep His promises and He is not Almighty God in which the winds and waves obey Him. Your last question of allowing or will the fall… is the same, yet we have to add that God is not the author of evil.

You still don’t get the difference between Willing and Allowing? I said He promised not to Will disasters… huge difference.

So what you’re saying is that God is Willing hurricanes and such to happen so he can bring down His Hand little by little?

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

You still don’t get the difference between Willing and Allowing? I said He promised not to Will disasters… huge difference.

So what you’re saying is that God is Willing hurricanes and such to happen so he can bring down His Hand little by little?

There is no difference, because if God allowed it or has the power to prevent it but doesn’t …then in His sovereign will… it comes to pass.

Please look at it this way, in the Haiti and Chile earthquakes… did God have the power to prevent them?

 

[Loboto-Me]

There is no difference, because if God allowed it or has the power to prevent it but doesn’t …then in His sovereign will… it comes to pass.

Please look at it this way, in the Haiti and Chile earthquakes… did God have the power to prevent them?

Woah! Then that means that you DO believe that God will’s the burning of pakistani christians and abortions and murder and so on and so forth.

That would mean that God’s on Satan’s side since He WILL’s Satan to do what he does! It’s no wonder Atheists become Atheists with such a nasty God.

That’s enough to make me “de-vert” (is that a word?)

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

Woah! Then that means that you DO believe that God will’s the burning of pakistani christians and abortions and murder and so on and so forth.

That would mean that God’s on Satan’s side since He WILL’s Satan to do what he does! It’s no wonder Atheists become Atheists with such a nasty God.

That’s enough to make me “de-vert” (is that a word?)

Of course not…! All that happens in the world can be traced back to the fall in the garden in which God is reconciling the world to Himself through the work of Christ.

 

[Loboto-Me]

Of course not…! All that happens in the world can be traced back to the fall in the garden in which God is reconciling the world to Himself through the work of Christ.

But then you’re telling me that since God didn’t stop it He willed it. Do you think He willed the fall in the garden of Eden? Do you not think that He was all powerful back in the beginning as well? I stand by my statement : His Will is not the same as Him allowing things to happen.

Ok, I know this started out as a statement that you think that God willed the reformation to happen and I had to disagree and say that he allowed it to happen. Just a saying so that it might go back to the original intent of your thread

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

But then you’re telling me that since God didn’t stop it He willed it. Do you think He willed the fall in the garden of Eden? Do you not think that He was all powerful back in the beginning as well? I stand by my statement : His Will is not the same as Him allowing things to happen.

Please explain what you mean. Are you familiar with the book of Job in which Satan needed the permission of God to send natural disasters and suffering of Job and his family?

 

[GeorgeSword]

Hiyas

It’s better to be Catholic, for me because I am Catholic :clapping::dancing::extrahappy:

I don’t believe Catholicism needed reformation - and you can’t prove it did

As always, just my thoughts

I disagree, to be honest. I think the Church at that time definitely needed reformation, just not that kind of reformation. The reformers reformed the wrong things - while they were changing doctrines and core beliefs, they should have been focusing more on the worldliness of certain people and certain people not living up to their duties. In short, the reformation should have just been what we call the counter-reformation.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

But then you’re telling me that since God didn’t stop it He willed it. Do you think He willed the fall in the garden of Eden? Do you not think that He was all powerful back in the beginning as well? I stand by my statement : His Will is not the same as Him allowing things to happen.

I agree with you on this.

I believe there is a difference because God has an ordaining Will and a permitting Will.

 

[Carlan]

Now you are getting to the mystery of evil which is simply a mystery. We did not always live in a fallen world in the begining prior to the fall. I think you are speaking about the promise that God would not destroy the entire world as in the flood with Noah. That’s really not the same thing as earthquakes and hurricanes. If God promised not to allow natural disasters, yet we still have them… we have to conclude that God is unable to keep His promises and He is not Almighty God in which the winds and waves obey Him. Your last question of allowing or will the fall… is the same, yet we have to add that God is not the author of evil.

God allows bad stuff to happen, he does not will it to happen.

He allowed Grandmother to get cancer and die, he did not will it.

Grandmother probably smoked and drank herself into bad health which caused the cancer,

He allows you to use free will to disobey his commandments,

He does not cause you to disobey his commandments,
God Bless, Carlan

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

I agree with you on this.

I believe there is a difference because God has an ordaining Will and a permitting Will.

How about hidden will verses revealed will. The Apostle Peter would be a great example who tried to go against the hidden will of God in regards to Jesus and the suffering of Jesus.

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

God allows bad stuff to happen, he does not will it to happen.

He allowed Grandmother to get cancer and die, he did not will it.

Grandmother probably smoked and drank herself into bad health which caused the cancer,

He allows you to use free will to disobey his commandments,

He does not cause you to disobey his commandments,
God Bless, Carlan

Please go back to the book of Job and reconsider your answer. Suffering for the Christian is willed by God for His purposes and our good!

Philippians 1:29
For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake,

God doesn’t cause us to disobey his commandments, we do that on our own. By the grace of God, we are enabled to obey His commandments. Without the grace of God, can we obey Him? Therefore, God provides to some what is needed to please Him.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

Please go back to the book of Job and reconsider your answer. Suffering for the Christian is willed by God for His purposes and our good!
Philippians 1:29
For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake,

God doesn’t cause us to disobey his commandments, we do that on our own.

Since the beginning of time, God has permitted things. The fall of Satan, the fall of man. These things go in line with what He has willed. If He permits me to suffer, then it helps add to what His plans - or Will for my life is. Difference. “Will” is more of the big picture, so to speak.

I think God has His hand on us with “Will.” “Permit” is all us.

:twocents: