IMO... It's better to be Protestant, but tell me why it's better to be Catholic

[spn82756]

Name-calling isn’t going to get us anywhere.

It’s the Catholic thing to do…just ask around.

I’m intensely insulted (and so are others) by the attitude of some posters when it comes to them ALWAYS knowing better than anyone else. For someone that doesn’t know me to tell me that I should change my religion is not only rude…but incredibly arrogant. AND THEN…to tell me that I can’t do the same with him because I know nothing about him borders on delusion. I thinks it’s best I make him the first to be on my ignore list.

 

[CWBetts]

It’s the Catholic thing to do…just ask around.

I’m intensely insulted (and so are others) by the attitude of some posters when it comes to them ALWAYS knowing better than anyone else. For someone that doesn’t know me to tell me that I should change my religion is not only rude…but incredibly arrogant. AND THEN…to tell me that I can’t do the same with him because I know nothing about him borders on delusion. I thinks it’s best I make him the first to be on my ignore list.

It is called fraternal rebuke. You are presenting something contrary to the teaching of the Church as authentic Catholic teaching, and that is something I will not abide. It is not arrogant to presnet the truth, and correct those who obviously do not even know the truth.

 

[Carlan]

It’s the Catholic thing to do…just ask around.

I’m intensely insulted (and so are others) by the attitude of some posters when it comes to them ALWAYS knowing better than anyone else. For someone that doesn’t know me to tell me that I should change my religion is not only rude…but incredibly arrogant. AND THEN…to tell me that I can’t do the same with him because I know nothing about him borders on delusion. I thinks it’s best I make him the first to be on my ignore list.

even though we are sinners and all fall short, we should try to follow the rule of humility,
to remind us, a few from St Benedict.

Do not dwell on the faults of others

accept censures even if unwarrented

Give in to the will of others

Accept insults and injuries

Be courteous and delicate when provoked

give into discussions , even when you are right.

Always choose the more difficult.
God Bless, Carlan

 

[spn82756]

It is called fraternal rebuke. You are presenting something contrary to the teaching of the Church as authentic Catholic teaching, and that is something I will not abide. It is not arrogant to presnet the truth, and correct those who obviously do not even know the truth.

Now there you go again. Telling me what I know. LOL!

Have a genuinely wonderful day.

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

This seems to be the real intent of your thread to speak about this issue even after Catholics have said we believe in the finished work of Christ. Why not start a new thread about it or examine official sources if you are interested in this? Frankly, I don’t see the relevance to why how Christ’s sacrifice about the Cross makes one tradition better than the other since we both believe in it. You’ve said that the Protestant view of justification is better, and that is why being a Protestant is better. Instead of polling us for answers, why not elaborate on this?

The doctrine of justification is not really uniformed in all of Protestantism. And I believe it is the same with Catholicism in a lesser degree. It is quite refreshing for a Catholic brother to post the Catholic Lutheran Joint declaration, finding common ground on justification, yet keeping each group true to their theological perspectives. Is it a compromise? Sure, but how else can we discuss things that historically divide us. My real intention is to explore our similarities and differences with the acknowledgment that we are One in Christ. If this is true, this is actual Christian Fellowship. I am telling many Protestants that I have much more common with Catholics who are orthodox than many of the liberal branches of Protestantism who are no longer orthodox on some of the very essentials of the Faith.

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

Are you suggesting a Protestant and Catholic syncretism–like a Calvinist Catholic or Catholic Baptist?

LOL… there was a group that broke from mainstream Calvinism a few years back and got labeled as a Catholic Calvinist movement. They left the historic view of justification and elevated the sacraments to almost a level to the Catholic Faith… and even got close to practicing baptismal regeneration. I believe Protestantism in general should move toward a higher view of the sacraments. And yes, I do acknowledge that Lutherans, Anglicans, and Reformed circles have a much higher view of the sacraments than most Protestant circles such as Baptist.

 

[Newbie2]

Protestants in general seem to rely on the written word exclusively.

So…the problem arises in interpretation. No authority, no authoritative interpretation. Interpretation takes on relativism; your interpretation is no better than mine and vice versa, even when mine says that God is OK with homosexual acts, etc. (example only…I really don’t believe such )

As well…and here is the biggest problem as I see it…

…wait for it…

…passages used to “justify” (no pun intended) some, many Protestant theologies contain quotes that may not in fact have been direct quotes. i.e. Did Jesus really say what we quote him as saying, or is what he has been reported to say a redaction by the authors of Scripture?

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

how is Catholic theology different in this regard? we also believe what Christ did on the Cross is finished. Do you think we believe the Mass is another sacrifice of Christ? It’s the same one Sacrifice, re-presented before us, as if we were at Calvary. That’s because it was a timeless event…not constrained by time. YOur post shows misunderstanding of Catholic teaching.

again, it seems you have a big misunderstanding of Catholicism. We believe this too.

Christ earned forgiveness and reconciliation for us, but these graces need to be applied to us somehow, and this happens through the Sacraments, which Christ clearly talked about in Scripture.

again, so does Catholicism.

I think it might help you to read the Catechism

I am familiar with the Catholic Catechism and the Protestant view of a forensic justification. I believe the difference comes down to a Catholic blended view of justification and sanctification (transformation process) to enter Heaven, and the Protestant view of separating justification and sanctification, with Christ’s righteousness being our only basis for entering Heaven. Do you believe this is correct?

 

[tweetymom]

We are brothers and sisters in Christ because there is only one family of God in which Christ purchased with His blood.

So true we are all the same in Christ Jesus.

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

One in Christ;6390334:

Of course not. But my theology is not based on one or two verses taken out of context. It is based on the entire Canon of Scripture, conveniently ignoring nothing (most Protestants tend to have very poor exegesis) and the whole of Sacred Tradition (not to be confused with “traditions of men”–that would be best exemplified by the 5 solas). Furthermore, “just believing without having to do anything else” is a lie straight from the pits of Hell.

I do believe there are different degrees of personal righteousness in the process of lifetime transformation. Yet, Protestants do not believe that our personal transformation by grace and being made into the image of Christ is our basis of entering Heaven and calling God our Heavenly Father on a daily basis. We believe it is only by the perfect righteousness of Christ credited to our account through faith alone is our only basis for eternal justification, received upon conversion. We approach the throne of grace with complete confidence by Christ’s righteousness alone. If your relationship with God as your Heavenly Father is determined by personal obedience to the moral law, or conditional in what you do as Christian, then we do see things quite differently. Should we divide because of this? I don’t think so.

 

[Pug]

The doctrine of justification is not really uniformed in all of Protestantism. And I believe it is the same with Catholicism in a lesser degree. It is quite refreshing for a Catholic brother to post the Catholic Lutheran Joint declaration, finding common ground on justification, yet keeping each group true to their theological perspectives. Is it a compromise? Sure, but how else can we discuss things that historically divide us. My real intention is to explore our similarities and differences with the acknowledgment that we are One in Christ. If this is true, this is actual Christian Fellowship. I am telling many Protestants that I have much more common with Catholics who are orthodox than many of the liberal branches of Protestantism who are no longer orthodox on some of the very essentials of the Faith.

This reminds me of something I find very hard…talking to an active Protestant relative of mine who is very impressed by things a particular bishop has written, and this has led her to view the resurrection as, well, not quite real. She rejects St. Paul, so it was no use quoting to her from 1Cor about the resurrection and in vain and such. It is hard to find common ground between the two of us. Things I assume a Protestant would believe, she does not.

I completely agree with you that the doctrine of Justification (or atonement) is not uniform across Protestant groups. This is why I mentioned earlier that some groups will not accept that a practicing Catholic can be justified (unless they give it up).

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

So true we are all the same in Christ Jesus.

We have others who confirm that we are actually One in Christ.

 

[stcalixtus]

IMO…it’s better to be Protestant, but tell me why it’s better to be Catholic. But remember, Catholics and Protestants are one in Christ for those who actually are known by God through Christ. Please try to keep your responses grounded in official Catholic teaching. I’ll start:

1. It’s better to be Protestant because historic Protestant theology rest in the finished work of Christ for our eternal standing before God, We are justified by the person and work of Jesus Christ who earned our complete forgiveness and reconciliation for us, We are saved from God to God, and for God on the basis of the work of Jesus Christ. Therefore, historic Protestant theology teaches that we have eternal peace with God because of the merit of Jesus Christ.

it's better to be LDS but tell me why it's better to protestant. And what type of protestant are you? there are so many different denominations...spread like dust in the wind, each stating they know the "right" way to salavation.

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

beautifully said.

I rejoice to for Monica’s love for God as a child of God.

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

it’s better to be LDS but tell me why it’s better to protestant. And what type of protestant are you? there are so many different denominations…spread like dust in the wind, each stating they know the “right” way to salavation.

Sorry, I do not see LDS to be part of the family of God. The right way to salvation is through faith in Christ, including the sacraments.

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

I don’t think One in Christ is saying that, but I could be wrong. If you look at his other statement of about morality, God gave us the Mosaic law (which to some includes the moral law as well). Since if man is damaged by sin (either by total depravity or original sin) he cannot keep the moral laws on his own—by each failing, he comes under the punishment of the law. However, God being perfect can. Hence why some Protestants have the alien righteousness of Christ. Christ did what no man could: He fulfilled the law, took the punishment of hell for breaking God’s law and the elect receive His righteousness. So sanctification (acts of obedience) occur after justification (which no man could ever achieve on his own except God). It’s not as if acts of obedience are completely unnecessary, just not with justification.

I, of course, don’t agree with the historic Protestant theology but I think it’s important to understand where the other is coming from.

Now, that is a Christ-like posting in which pleases God. We have to represent the other traditions honestly if we expect to dialogue as One in Christ. When we understand what the other tradition believes, then we are so much closer than most would like to admit. We both agree that the work of God in Christ is by grace alone. I honestly believe that the Catholic view of salvation is good, because everything flows from the merit of Christ. My goal is to be able to post the Catholic view of salvation in the same way you were able to post the historic Protestant view of salvation.

 

[stcalixtus]

Sorry, I do not see LDS to be part of the family of God. The right way to salvation is through faith in Christ, including the sacraments.

what type of protestant are you?

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

what type of protestant are you?

Historic

 

[Carlan]

The doctrine of justification is not really uniformed in all of Protestantism. And I believe it is the same with Catholicism in a lesser degree. It is quite refreshing for a Catholic brother to post the Catholic Lutheran Joint declaration, finding common ground on justification, yet keeping each group true to their theological perspectives. Is it a compromise? Sure, but how else can we discuss things that historically divide us. My real intention is to explore our similarities and differences with the acknowledgment that we are One in Christ. If this is true, this is actual Christian Fellowship. I am telling many Protestants that I have much more common with Catholics who are orthodox than many of the liberal branches of Protestantism who are no longer orthodox on some of the very essentials of the Faith.

Here is more Catholic teaching on justification.
Can you post what you particular Church denomination teaches you on justification.

THE
CATHOLIC TEACHING ON WHAT JUSTIFICATION IS.
As baptized Catholics, we can agree that we have been justified and we have been saved. Thus, in one sense, our justification and salvation is in the past as a completed action. The initial grace of justification and salvation we receive in baptism is a done deal. And Catholics do not believe we were partially justified or partially saved at baptism. Catholics believe, as Peter says in 1 Peter 3:21, “Baptism… now saves you…” Ananias said to Saul of Tarsus, “Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name” (Acts 22:16). That means the new Christian has been “washed… sanctified… [and] justified” as 1 Corinthians 6:11 remarks. That much is a done deal; thus, it is entirely proper to say we “have been justified” and we “have been saved.” However, this is not the end of the story. Scripture reveals that through this justification and salvation the new Christian experiences in baptism, he enters into a process of justification and salvation requiring his free cooperation with God’s grace. If we read the very next verses of our above-cited texts, we find the writer telling us there is more to the story.

Romans 5:1-2 states, “Therefore, since we are justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have obtained access to this grace in
which we stand, and we rejoice in our hope of sharing the glory of God.”

This text indicates that after having received the grace of justification, we now have access to God’s grace by which we stand in Christ and we can then rejoice in the hope of sharing God’s glory. That word hope indicates that what we are hoping for we do not yet ]possess.
“For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them” (Eph. 2:10). Without a doubt, we must continue to work in Christ as Christians; it is also true that it is only by the grace of God we can continue to do so. But even more importantly, Scripture tells us this grace can be resisted. Second Corinthians 6:1 tells us that "Working together with him, then, we entreat you not to accept the grace of God in vain."
St. Paul urged believers in Antioch—and all of us by implication—“to continue in the grace of God.” Indeed, Paul warns Christians that they can “fall from grace” in Galatians 5:4. This leads us to our next and most crucial point.

This example of justification being obtained in the future is not an isolated case. Numerous biblical texts indicate both justification and salvation to be future and contingent realities:
Romans 2:13-16: For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified … on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Jesus Christ.
Romans 6:16: Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience which leads to righteousness? (Greek dikaiosunen, “justification”)
Matthew 10:22: And you will be hated of all men for my name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.
Peace, Carlan

 

[tweetymom]

You have no idea about my faith, or my journey. Read my blog. Your words here make it clear that you are grossly uninformed on what the Church truly teaches on

And you do not know anyones heart. Only our Savior knows and He will be our judge, not someone on a forum. Praise God for that and for my salvation.