IMO... It's better to be Protestant, but tell me why it's better to be Catholic

[One_in_Christ_1]

I’ll gladly wear the Brown Bag Happy Face for that reason, as soon as I can figure out how to add it to my posts. There’s no greater desire than the unity or reunion of all Christians. Our Lord prayed for that on His last Night before His Crucifixion. My only “but” would be: Come among us Catholics to taste and see what we have. Now, regarding the Joint Declaration regarding Justification, don’t read too much into it. It does not see that we see eye-to-eye on Justification. It says that there are points of agreement that may lead to further discussions. But I have to tell you, that I have visited some Lutheran Churches (not Missouri Synod), and I was nearly knocked over by the odor of the apostacy of liberalism and “openess”. Take care that your desire for unity doesn’t lead you right out the back door of the Kingdom.

I am staunch believer in penal substitution, forensic justification, the great exchange in 2 Cor 5:21, and imputation in regards to the doctrine of justification. I think we should hold firm to that truth, yet not separate from those who hold to another view such as the Catholic view, I would have a much greater tendency to separate from liberal christianity, depending on the issue. Did you still want to wear the brown bag happy face? Being Anglican - Catholic, you must have a blended view of things.

 

[tweetymom]

I saw your religion title and I liked it so much that I changed mine. I know you are Catholic and you know that I am Protestant. But we are still One in Christ.

Thank you and God Bless

 

[paul_c]

The Catholic Church agrees. The teaching since Vatican II is that the Church of Christ subsists in the Catholic Church - but does not do so exclusively. Not only can Protestants be saved through the mediation of Christ, who is the sole mediator, but so can Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, etc.

It is only because of Christ’s sacrifice that anyone can be saved - but receiving grace is primarily through love, not through faith.

Be careful how you explain this: you may mislead . This is the official teaching from the Catechism:

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.3

848 “Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men.”

So if a Muslim or a Jew or a Mormon or an Evangelical should come to understand that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus and yet still doesn’t join, they can not be saved. If they are truly ignorant of this fact through no fault of their own, but they lived a life of love through the natural law, then it is possible for them to be saved.

Christian unity is only beneficial if Christians unite in the fullness of the Catholic faith as taught by the apostles. Uniting in error would not lead to salvation.

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

Be careful how you explain this: you may mislead . This is the official teaching from the Catechism:

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.3

848 “Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men.”

So if a Muslim or a Jew or a Mormon or an Evangelical should come to understand that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus and yet still doesn’t join, they can not be saved. If they are truly ignorant of this fact through no fault of their own, but they lived a life of love through the natural law, then it is possible for them to be saved.

Christian unity is only beneficial if Christians unite in the fullness of the Catholic faith as taught by the apostles. Uniting in error would not lead to salvation.

Paul C,

If seems you are saying that a condition for salvation is conditional of not rejecting the that the Catholic Church is the One True Church if you do know that the Catholic Church is the One True Church… correct? I see how Christian unity between Catholics and Protestants is difficult for you if you categorize Muslims, Jews, Mormons and Evangelicals in the same group. That is very grieving to me that you would post such a thing. You also seem to define that sinners can be saved through natural law (conscience, law, and general revelation) without faith in Jesus Christ. If sinners can be saved by keeping the law, then Christ died in vain since there is another way to the Father… if I understand what you are proclaiming. That is why I am not Catholic, but will still unite with Catholics as One in Christ based on their faith in Jesus Christ. You seem to be saying that Evangelicals are not saved by the work of Christ,but rather by the Evangelical’s obedience to natural law. Therefore, for the Evangelical’s Faith in Christ is meaningless in regards to redemption.

 

[stcalixtus]

This is where I disagree with the Catholic Church… for I do not believe Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and other non-Christians can be saved apart from faith in Christ. I believe children from a Christan household of faith can be saved apart from personal faith in Christ.

do you protest the Catholic church? if so post your protest on the cathedral door…are you a cafeteria catholic? me thinks so

 

[stcalixtus]

The problem is that this results in an unjust God who condemns people who respond to the grace that they are given. If one is born in a family wherein he never hears the true Gospel, is he to be cast into Hell through no fault of his own? My God is Pure Good, and He would not condemn the invincibly ignorant.

well said Sir Thomas! huzza!

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

do you protest the Catholic church? if so post your protest on the cathedral door…are you a cafeteria catholic? me thinks so

I do not protest the Catholic Church. All churches are imperfect here on earth. I guess I am a cafeteria Christian, trying to find the truth from all traditions within orthodox Christendom. God is an infinite God, so I do not believe all truth is found in a particular tradition or denomination.

 

[stcalixtus]

I did and am happy I did.

Are you a protestant?

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

Are you a protestant?

Sure, I am a Protestant who is not protesting the Catholic Church.

 

[stcalixtus]

Be careful how you explain this: you may mislead . This is the official teaching from the Catechism:

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.3

848 “Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men.”

So if a Muslim or a Jew or a Mormon or an Evangelical should come to understand that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus and yet still doesn’t join, they can not be saved. If they are truly ignorant of this fact through no fault of their own, but they lived a life of love through the natural law, then it is possible for them to be saved.

Christian unity is only beneficial if Christians unite in the fullness of the Catholic faith as taught by the apostles. Uniting in error would not lead to salvation.

yes I agree however they are all welcome to convert…right?

 

[spn82756]

brown bagging!

 

[spn82756]

This is where I disagree with the Catholic Church… for I do not believe Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and other non-Christians can be saved apart from faith in Christ. I believe children from a Christan household of faith can be saved apart from personal faith in Christ.

Hear ye! hear ye!

 

[spn82756]

Oye! It’s starting to look like a kumbaya, where’s the WWJD bracelet, and let’s all group hug type of movement.

I’ll wear a sac cloth for unity rather than your flimsy brown happy face bag. The thing is, unity has been prayed for, sacrificed through fasting and sacrificing by Catholics everywhere for years. It’s been working slowly and there has been loads of protestants coming home to the fullness of the Truth, Praise God!

Your little brown bag isn’t going to do much except maybe among your own, what you need to do for unity is start taking steps toward the Church and then start running toward the Church, she’ll receive you with open arms.

What you’re forgetting is that the Church, like Jesus, has always been there waiting for you to reUNITE,

My friend…what you’re forgetting is that there is happiness in Christ. Sometimes just being happy in that is great. I follow all church teachings…but we are all one in Christ!

 

[stcalixtus]

I do not protest the Catholic Church. All churches are imperfect here on earth. I guess I am a cafeteria Christian, trying to find the truth from all traditions within orthodox Christendom. God is an infinite God, so I do not believe all truth is found in a particular tradition or denomination.

man is imperfect, the catechism is, do you have any intention of converting to Catholicism? if not you better not hold your breath waiting for the Catholic church to accept protestant spiritual beliefs, it simply will not happen…you are welcome to join and I wouild be happy to sponsor you

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

Hear ye! hear ye!

Thanks for being a brown bag happy face for Christian unity for those who are in Christ!

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

yes I agree however they are all welcome to convert…right?

The Catholic Church already receives me as a separate brethren based on my baptism in the Triune formula and probably my faith in Christ. Could your personal view be outside the Catholic view? What do you mean by convert when you are speaking about Evangelicals or Protestants? Many ex-Protestants who are Catholic have posted that they were born again as a Protestant.

 

[stcalixtus]

Sure, I am a Protestant who is not protesting the Catholic Church.

you simply do not get it do you? look up the history of the reformation and it eventually leads to your disbelief of Catholic theology, a protestant is any Christian that is not orthodox…that is a fact and I am finished with you…how about you go antagonize the Mormon forum for awhile?

 

[spn82756]

you simply do not get it do you? look up the history of the reformation and it eventually leads to your disbelief of Catholic theology, a protestant is any Christian that is not orthodox…that is a fact and I am finished with you…how about you go antagonize the Mormon forum for awhile?

Your statement are so sad.

THEY WILL KNOW YOU BY YOUR LOVE FOR EACH OTHER.

I wonder who said that. Couldn’t have been a heretic.

 

[One_in_Christ_1]

you simply do not get it do you? look up the history of the reformation and it eventually leads to your disbelief of Catholic theology, a protestant is any Christian that is not orthodox…that is a fact and I am finished with you…how about you go antagonize the Mormon forum for awhile?

I guess putting on a brown bag happy face of Christian unity is out of the question for you. I would not unite with Mormons; I would evangelize them.

 

[tweetymom]

Are you a protestant?

I am a Christian and born again believer in Jesus Christ.