Importance of Mary's perpetual virginity

[Aslan10]

Hey guys, I realize this is a topic that comes up a lot on here but i haven’t seen anything yet concerning the question that im asking. I am currently a protestant attending an anglican church and could see myself becoming catholic one day. Currently im having a convo with my roomate on Mary’s perpetual virginity and whether or not the doctrine is true. But at the moment we aren’t concerned about whether or not its true. So my question is why is important that she remained a virgin? Is sex seen as something impure within catholicism (i realize it is outside of marriage)? Why is celibacy seen as something so much better than a husband and wife coming together in love within marriage? Or is this doctrine only important b/c it is a dogmatic teaching of the church and if it isn’t true than the church is in error and therefore the Catholic Church isn’t the one true church?

Peace be with you.

 

[rinnie]

Hey guys, I realize this is a topic that comes up a lot on here but i haven’t seen anything yet concerning the question that im asking. I am currently a protestant attending an anglican church and could see myself becoming catholic one day. Currently im having a convo with my roomate on Mary’s perpetual virginity and whether or not the doctrine is true. But at the moment we aren’t concerned about whether or not its true. So my question is why is important that she remained a virgin? Is sex seen as something impure within catholicism (i realize it is outside of marriage)? Why is celibacy seen as something so much better than a husband and wife coming together in love within marriage? Or is this doctrine only important b/c it is a dogmatic teaching of the church and if it isn’t true than the church is in error and therefore the Catholic Church isn’t the one true church?

Peace be with you.

Not at all. Sex is considered to be sacred and a great and wonderful gift to us from God between a woman and a man.

Here is why it is so important about the Virgin Mary. Simply because it is true.

It has always been a teaching of the RCC.

It is St Paul who said it is better to be celibrate because then you are not divided in mind. But that is if God calls you to the Priesthood, and the order is the Roman Rite.

Tell me something, think about this. Do you think if a Man or Woman become a Priest or Nun they have more time to do the work of God in his Church, or do you feel a married Man or Woman can have just as much time?

Do you see what St. Paul is saying? A married Man wants to not only please GOD but also his wife. But a Priest only lives to please GOD. Do you see the divided in mind St Paul is talking about?

 

[rinnie]

Also the reason it is important that Mary remained a virgin is because she gave up her life and made a vow to God.

She said I am the maidservant of the LORD!! She used her free will to please God and only God, And she remained true to her vow to him.

Read when the angel says to Mary you will have a Child and will name him Jesus. Why did Mary say HOW??? Do you think Mary did not know how people go pregnant?

The reason she said that I am a Virgin, was because she had all intention of keeping he vow to God.

She did not know how she would continue her vow, but that is when the Angel more or less told her, you will, by the power of the Holy Spirit you will become pregnant with the Son of God. But also keep your promise to God.

The RCC defends the truth, nothing more, nothing less/

 

[Aslan10]

Not at all. Sex is considered to be sacred and a great and wonderful gift to us from God between a woman and a man.

Here is why it is so important about the Virgin Mary. Simply because it is true.

It has always been a teaching of the RCC.

It is St Paul who said it is better to be celibrate because then you are not divided in mind. But that is if God calls you to the Priesthood, and the order is the Roman Rite.

Tell me something, think about this. Do you think if a Man or Woman become a Priest or Nun they have more time to do the work of God in his Church, or do you feel a married Man or Woman can have just as much time?

Do you see what St. Paul is saying? A married Man wants to not only please GOD but also his wife. But a Priest only lives to please GOD. Do you see the divided in mind St Paul is talking about?

Ok. So the real importance from a Catholic perspective is that it be true b/c the Church says so and it must be free from error? And yes, I see what you mean and I understand Paul’s explaination. And I ask this will all respect; But what does that have to do with the Mother of God? It seems that verse is only applicable to priests, nuns, and monks. But not to a married woman. Thanks for your reply.

Peace be with you

 

[Aslan10]

Also the reason it is important that Mary remained a virgin is because she gave up her life and made a vow to God.

She said I am the maidservant of the LORD!! She used her free will to please God and only God, And she remained true to her vow to him.

Read when the angel says to Mary you will have a Child and will name him Jesus. Why did Mary say HOW??? Do you think Mary did not know how people go pregnant?

The reason she said that I am a Virgin, was because she had all intention of keeping he vow to God.

She did not know how she would continue her vow, but that is when the Angel more or less told her, you will, by the power of the Holy Spirit you will become pregnant with the Son of God. But also keep your promise to God.

The RCC defends the truth, nothing more, nothing less/

I guess its hard for me to see this and how having relations with her husband would have been a bad thing, or unpleasing to God. I feel like it would be worse if a couple became married and they never had sex. Am I making sense?

 

[rinnie]

Ok. So the real importance from a Catholic perspective is that it be true b/c the Church says so and it must be free from error? And yes, I see what you mean and I understand Paul’s explaination. And I ask this will all respect; But what does that have to do with the Mother of God? It seems that verse is only applicable to priests, nuns, and monks. But not to a married woman. Thanks for your reply.

Peace be with you

The Blessed Mother took that Vow to remain a Virgin. Read the bible, it tells us we are all called to use our gifts.

Some are to be Mothers, Fathers,Priests,Nuns. Others never meet the right person,and if they want to live the true Catholic life and they do not choose to marry they should not have sex outside of marriage, Do you not agree? Is that not the word of God?

And it is not a importance from a Catholic perspective that the Church be free from error, it is a PROMISE from God. Did he not say to St Peter and the Apostles I am sending the advocate the HolySpirit to lead you into all truth?

Do you believe that St Peter belonged to the RCC? After all the proofs in the pudding, he is buried in that same Church in Rome is he not?

So lets make this easy, Was St Peter the Apostle of the One True Church? Then its home to rome my friend.

 

[SonCatcher]

Ok. So the real importance from a Catholic perspective is that it be true b/c the Church says so and it must be free from error? And yes, I see what you mean and I understand Paul’s explaination. And I ask this will all respect; But what does that have to do with the Mother of God? It seems that verse is only applicable to priests, nuns, and monks. But not to a married woman. Thanks for your reply.

Peace be with you

Actually, it’s not so much “because the Church says so” as the fact that this teaching has been handed down since the time of the Apostles. The same teaching is held in the Orthodox churches, even though the Faith developed independently in them for pretty much the whole history of the Church.

 

[rinnie]

I guess its hard for me to see this and how having relations with her husband would have been a bad thing, or unpleasing to God. I feel like it would be worse if a couple became married and they never had sex. Am I making sense?

Well see here is what you don’t know. Did you ever wonder where St Joseph was when Jesus was killed on the cross? After all Jesus was only in his early 30.s. The Blessed Mother was there,

Go back to Joseph, he already had a family. He was an old man when he married Mary.

People think he did not want to marry her because she was with child. But that was not it. He was too old to raise the child and he knew it. But he trusted God and did what was asked of him.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Tell me something, think about this. Do you think if a Man or Woman become a Priest or Nun they have more time to do the work of God in his Church, or do you feel a married Man or Woman can have just as much time?

Do you see what St. Paul is saying? A married Man wants to not only please GOD but also his wife. But a Priest only lives to please GOD. Do you see the divided in mind St Paul is talking about?

Jesus and Saint Paul didn’t call people to celibacy for the purpose of having more time. So many married secular men have demanding jobs that are much, much more demanding that being a priest. In fact, most priests I know aren’t half as busy as I am except during Sundays, and I’m a 9-5 guy.

 

[SonCatcher]

I guess its hard for me to see this and how having relations with her husband would have been a bad thing, or unpleasing to God. I feel like it would be worse if a couple became married and they never had sex. Am I making sense?

It would depend. If the couple both intend to remain abstinent through marriage for devotional reasons and are honest about that from before the marriage, they are not defrauding each other. Even today, couples can choose what is called a “Josephite marriage” so long as they mutually choose it and remain under the direction of a spiritual adviser.

 

[rinnie]

And from my point of view yes I think sex is very important in a marriage.

But lets say you are in your 80’s and your wife died, and you meet someone also up in age, or your wife is ill. Is sex that important.

Love is much more powerful then sex can ever be.

But LOVE and SEX is awesome and wonderful gift from God.

But my point is sex is not always the main point of a marraige. Many older people cannot have sex, but just want love and company. Do you see what I am saying.

But the point is the Blessed Mother was wanted to be true to only GOd, Like an nun would of today. It was her choice to not marry in the marriage sense.

Joseph only married her because in those days she would be stoned to death.

 

[WoundedIcon]

Her virginity is important mainly because that was how one consecrated oneself to God’s service in that day. Normally a woman would marry and have a bunch of children, and by setting oneself apart from that it freed them up to serve God more singlemindedly. The whole consecrated virgin thing was actually a major way that Christianity helped women have a higher social status. They were no longer expected to marry.

 

[Aslan10]

Interesting. I guess from someone living in the modern world were sex is literally everywhere it’s hard for me to understand. I’m clearly not meant to be a priest or monk!

And just to clear up something, i’m asking these questions because I really want to know and am really curious. Im not trying to start any arguments, I can’t stand it when people get all angry. Just thought i would put that out there! Im not a protestant trying to pick a fight I promise! haha.

Peace be with you

 

[Aslan10]

Joseph only married her because in those days she would be stoned to death.

Is this b/c she became pregnant with Christ? I thought they were committed to be married before the annunciation? I could clearly be wrong in this assumption though!

 

[Becky4906]

Another thought - I recently lead a bible study at my Parish based on Scott Hahn’s book “Hail Holy Queen: The Mother of God in the Word of God”.

In this book, he talks about the perpetual virginity of Mary, especially in the way that he compares Mary and the Ark of the Convenient. If you remember the story of the man who was stuck down because he reached out to steady the Ark, after God had given the commandment that no one was to touch the Ark because it was so holy and because His Spirit had overshadowed the Ark. Now, think of Mary, whose womb held not just His Spirit, but the literal physical presence of God in human form. If man was not to touch a golden box because of its holiness, how much more so would Mary have been set apart, as one who held the very physical presence of God.

On a more personal note…if I try to picture myself as Mary’s husband, a Jew who not only would have had a good knowledge of this story, but who would have had an Angel tell me that the child she carried was God’s son…would I ever feel like it was my place or duty as her husband to defile that space? Maybe that is just me (and I’m not a man, so I don’t know), but I don’t think I could find it in me to be where God had been.

 

[rinnie]

Jesus and Saint Paul didn’t call people to celibacy for the purpose of having more time. So many married secular men have demanding jobs that are much, much more demanding that being a priest. In fact, most priests I know aren’t half as busy as I am except during Sundays, and I’m a 9-5 guy.

Really? You are on call 24 hours a day 7 days a week. You have to get up in the middle of the night at any given moment to give last rites? You open your home and heart to people 24 hours a day.

Your entire life is consumed in doing the work of God and the work of God only?

Or do you get quiet a paycheck at the end of that demanding job? I know my husband has worked the last 3 days over 8 hours of overtime. But trust me, Payday will be great.

He was offered a unbelievable PAY but would work everywhere and anywhere and have no control over the hours so he said No. BUt if he did there was a nice financial gain there.

You are saying NO financial gain for you at all

 

[Aslan10]

Another thought - I recently lead a bible study at my Parish based on Scott Hahn’s book “Hail Holy Queen: The Mother of God in the Word of God”.

In this book, he talks about the perpetual virginity of Mary, especially in the way that he compares Mary and the Ark of the Convenient. If you remember the story of the man who was stuck down because he reached out to steady the Ark, after God had given the commandment that no one was to touch the Ark because it was so holy and because His Spirit had overshadowed the Ark. Now, think of Mary, whose womb held not just His Spirit, but the literal physical presence of God in human form. If man was not to touch a golden box because of its holiness, how much more so would Mary have been set apart, as one who held the very physical presence of God.

On a more personal note…if I try to picture myself as Mary’s husband, a Jew who not only would have had a good knowledge of this story, but who would have had an Angel tell me that the child she carried was God’s son…would I ever feel like it was my place or duty as her husband to defile that space? Maybe that is just me (and I’m not a man, so I don’t know), but I don’t think I could find it in me to be where God had been.

Well, i guess thats exactly my question…How would that be defiling her? If its within marriage he wouldn’t be doing anything wrong.

 

[rinnie]

I guess its hard for me to see this and how having relations with her husband would have been a bad thing, or unpleasing to God. I feel like it would be worse if a couple became married and they never had sex. Am I making sense?

Well let me ask you this. If I made an oath to God and was a nun today. Do you see where that would be unpleasing to God if I broke that vow?

Well in those days it was as stated, quite common for a (nun or as pointed out, a virgin to marry but remain faithful to God),

Just because the customs have changed, does not change the promise made.

 

[rinnie]

Well, i guess thats exactly my question…How would that be defiling her? If its within marriage he wouldn’t be doing anything wrong.

Because thats just what defiled means. He womb would remain pure.

 

[Aslan10]

Because thats just what defiled means. He womb would remain pure.

I understand the vow issue but still dont get the defiled part. Are you saying that all married women that have had sex within marriage are defiled? Or the having sex despite a vow of virginity would be defiling? Im sorry, im not trying to sound like a jerk. I just my mindset is a bit different. Just trying to understand. Thanks rinnie.

Peace be with you