Importance of Mary's perpetual virginity

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I used to be a Protestant and an Anglican church, too! 🙂 I finally became Catholic in 2010, and I’ll admit that the Marian doctrines seemed really strange to me when I was a Protestant. I had the same questions about the perpetual virginity, it just doesn’t seem necessary at first glance.

If you have a Catechism of the Catholic Church, the teachings on the virginity of Mary are in paragraphs 496-507. Lumen Gentium 57 might also be helpful. Both can be found on the web if you don’t.

I think what was helpful for me in understanding all of the Marian dogmas (perpetual virginity, immaculate conception - boy that was the toughest for me I think, the assumption, etc) is thinking of it in terms not of being necessary, but more of being fitting. Sex is certainly not a bad thing within marriage, so it wouldn’t have been “sinful” for her to have sex within her marriage. Traditionally understood, Mary made a vow of virginity even before she was married to Joseph (which is why she asked the angel during the annunciation how it would be possible for her to get pregnant). St. Augustine wrote about Mary’s perpetual virginity, and we see that even in the early church they believed it. But more than that, it’s fitting that the woman who gave birth to God, who carried the incarnation within her own body, should be a virgin.

As for celibacy vs. virginity, see the Catechism paragraph 2349. It quotes from St. Ambrose: “There are three forms of the virtue of chastity: the first is that of spouses, the second is that of widows, and the third is that of virgins. We do not praise any one of them to the exclusion of the others … This is what makes for the richness of the discipline of the Church.”

But the Church does recognize that some people are called to a consecrated celibacy, like in Mary’s case, or in the case of priests or other religious. It frees them up in a way to give themselves wholeheartedly to God alone. But of course we know that sex within a marriage is healthy and also images the trinity, so it’s not a case of better or worse, just different states of life.

Also see Rev 14:3-4: “They were singing (what seemed to be) a new hymn before the throne, before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn this hymn except the hundred and forty-four thousand who had been ransomed from the earth. These are they who were not defiled with women; they are virgins and these are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They have been ransomed as the firstfruits of the human race for God and the Lamb.”

Anyway, hope that’s helpful! Good luck to you! It is such an exciting journey, I’ll be praying for you! 🙂
 
I understand the vow issue but still dont get the defiled part. Are you saying that all married women that have had sex within marriage are defiled? Or the having sex despite a vow of virginity would be defiling? Im sorry, im not trying to sound like a jerk. I just my mindset is a bit different. Just trying to understand. Thanks rinnie.

Peace be with you
No, you must understand that the O.T. to understand the N.T. The Ark of the Covenant in the O.T.

The Ark of the Covenant just like the O.T.contained the word. But in the N.T. was the womb of the Blessed Mother. The word that became flesh. Jesus Christ.

Just like the ark of the Cov, in the O.T. was to remain un-defiled. So was the womb of the Blessed Mother.

Her womb was made Holy by the Power of the Holy Spirit for what it contained. Let me find you the exact scritpure so you can understand better.
 
denzinger.patristica.net/
13 We believe in one God, the father almighty, the creator of all things invisible and visible; and in one lord Jesus Christ, the son of God, the only begotten born of God the father, that is of the substance of the Father, God of God, light of light, true God of true God, begotten not made, consubstantial to the father, by whom all things were made, both those in heaven and those on earth, both visible and invisible, who for us melt and for our salvation came down and became man, that is was completely born of holy Mary ever-virgin by the Holy Spirit…
The Virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary *
[From epistle (9) “Accepi litteras vestras” to Anysius,
Bishop of Thessalonica, 392]
91 (3) Surely, we cannot deny that regarding the sons of Mary the statement is justly censured, and your holiness has rightly abhorred it, that from the same virginal womb, from which according to the flesh Christ was born, another offspring was brought forth. For neither would the Lord Jesus have chosen to be born of a virgin, if he had judged she would be so incontinent, that with the seed of human copulation she would pollute that generative chamber of the Lord’s body, that palace of the eternal King. For he who imputes this, imputes nothing other than the falsehood of the Jews, who say that he could not have been born of a virgin. For, if they accept this authority from the priests, that Mary seems to have brought forth many children, they strive to sweep away the truth of faith with greater zeal.
COUNCIL OF CONSTANTINOPLE II 553
214 Can. 2. If anyone does not confess that there are two generations of the Word of God, the one from the Father before the ages, without time and incorporeally, the other in the last days, when the same came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the holy and glorious Mother of God and ever Virgin Mary, and was born of her, let such a one be anathema.
THE LATERAN COUNCIL 649
256 Can. 3. If anyone does not properly and truly confess in accord with the holy Fathers, that the holy Mother of God and ever Virgin and immaculate Mary in the earliest of the ages conceived of the Holy Spirit without seed, namely, God the Word Himself specifically and truly, who was born of God the Father before all ages, and that she incorruptibly bore [Him?], her virginity remaining indestructible even after His birth, let him be condemned [see n. 218].
 
Our Lady Of Guadalupe told Juan Diego, " Know, and be assured, my dearest son, that I am the Perfect Ever Virgin, Holy Mary, the Mother of the one true God…"
 
No, you must understand that the O.T. to understand the N.T. The Ark of the Covenant in the O.T.

The Ark of the Covenant just like the O.T.contained the word. But in the N.T. was the womb of the Blessed Mother. The word that became flesh. Jesus Christ.

Just like the ark of the Cov, in the O.T. was to remain un-defiled. So was the womb of the Blessed Mother.

Her womb was made Holy by the Power of the Holy Spirit for what it contained. Let me find you the exact scritpure so you can understand better.
Yes, but how is sex within marriage “defiling”? I think thats the nature of my question. If something is pemissable by God and a gift from God, how can it defile? thank you for your patience.
 
Our Lady Of Guadalupe told Juan Diego, " Know, and be assured, my dearest son, that I am the Perfect Ever Virgin, Holy Mary, the Mother of the one true God…"
I don’t necessarily doubt that she was ever-virgin but more so why its so important that she did.
 
Aslan10 -

Maybe the difficulty you are having is one I had when I first converted from the Southern Baptist church… Are you thinking of Mary as “an average Jewish woman who just so happened to pious enough that God chose her to carry his son”? That is the way it was always taught to me as a Baptist.

But, as a Catholic, I now understand Mary as “a Holy woman, set apart by God before her birth, conceived without sin and dedicated to God, for the very purpose of bringing his Son into the world”.

There is a big difference there. An average pious woman would not be expected to remain a virgin even though she were married, just as there is no sin in my having relations with my husband. But I am not Mary – Mary was not an average Jewish woman…she was chosen and Holy from the moment of her conception.

Does that help at all?
 
I guess its hard for me to see this and how having relations with her husband would have been a bad thing, or unpleasing to God. I feel like it would be worse if a couple became married and they never had sex. Am I making sense?
Hello Aslan, many protestants ask this same question. They have a hard time believing that Mary and Joseph wouldn’t have had a “normal” marriage. But think hard about this, and put yourself in their shoes. There was absolutely nothing “normal” about Mary and Joseph’s lives. Amongst all people who ever lived, they were selected by God to play an essential role in our salvation. This had to be a completely transformational event in their lives. How could they go back to living a normal life after that? They couldn’t. After carrying and bearing the incarnation of God, how could Mary just go on to have a whole litter of kids and be a normal housewife? It would have been impossible, mentally and spiritually. If you look at the lives of the saints who have had mystical encounters with heavenly apparitions, those people are never the same again. All thoughts are toward God. Earthly things have no meaning anymore.

Now, all this is my opinion, and Catholic theology is not based upon one person’s opinion, but it makes sense to me, and to many others.

Read this, it will really get you thinking: fisheaters.com/protoevangelium.html

This is a very early (about 125 AD) document about the lives of Mary and Joseph that provides a fascinating insight that really fleshes out the skimpy Gospel accounts. According to tradition, Joseph was an elderly widower with grown children when he married Mary. This is why he wasn’t at the Cross. He was already dead. He married Mary out of duty to care for her. This wasn’t a sexual relationship. Also it is obvious that Mary had no other children, because Jesus gave her over to Apostle John to care for her after his crucifixion. That would have been unthinkable if Mary had other children. And she would have had other children if she was having sex with Joseph.

This protoevangelium is not considered Sacred Scripture, but these early Christian documents can provide some truthful gems and clarification on subjects that are fuzzy. 🙂
 
Or perhaps…since you are “stuck” on the “Importance” we might try to approach it like this…

Is it *important *that St. Peter was a fisherman? perhaps not…would Jesus have chosen him if he had some other profession? does his being a fisherman influence the way he teaches or believes? perhaps not…but it is a fact. He *was *a fisherman and so the matter of whether or not that fact is important is a bit moot. Its importance lies only in the fact that it is true.

Not the best example, I know, since virginity is such a part of who Mary is that we call her The Blessed Virgin…but this may be one of those things that you just have to accept first, and you will come to value its importance in time.
 
Hey guys, just wanted to thank everyone who has replied to this thread. I’ll definetly be thinking through all of this! But if there is something else someone wants to add please fell free to contribute! I’ll be coming back to it more. 👍

Peace be with you
 
Yes, but how is sex within marriage “defiling”? I think thats the nature of my question. If something is pemissable by God and a gift from God, how can it defile? thank you for your patience.
Okay buddy here is why, I am not holy and I am not the ark of the Covenant.

Read luke 1:39 and compare it to 2 Sam 6:2. Actually read all of Sam and Luke and you will pick up what I am trying to lay down for you.

Now in plain english, I am not as we agree a Virgin with a Son,and not the ark of the Covenant. The Ark of the Cov. is sealed.

Let me put this another way, Once you have sex you are no longer pure, a virgin, See what I am saying. I cannot have sex and stay a virgin, my womb is no longer pure. See what I am saying.

The Virgin Mary remained Pure get it a VIRGIN!

How could the Virgin Mary REMAIN the Innocent Un-Defiled INNOCENT ark of the New Covenant as described in Luke if she was no longer a virgin. See what I am saying?

So now let me ask you this, I think this will help you see even better. How can I be a Virgin, un-defiled okay, before marriage, but then get married and have sex and still remain un-defiled:eek: Why am I not still a virgin, why am I considered de-filed? Because I had Sex!! Got it!

That is why she remained de-filed. Because her womb remained HOLY, Inocent, Pure. The Ark of the Covenant had to be.

Now got back and read 2 Sam and what the Ark of the Cov.

Then go back to the N.T. the ark of the Cov. remains pure, un-defiled.
 
JM3, I think you’re misunderstanding the purpose of the thread…im not asking for proof, im asking about its importance.

Peace be with you
Your answer is in the second quote.

“For neither would the Lord Jesus have chosen to be born of a virgin, if he had judged she would be so incontinent, that with the seed of human copulation she would pollute that generative chamber of the Lord’s body, that palace of the eternal King.”
 
I don’t necessarily doubt that she was ever-virgin but more so why its so important that she did.
It is important because it is one of the oldest teachings of the Church. It is as old as the teaching on the Resurrection. If the teaching from the Apostles that Mary remained a virgin is unreliable, how can we say that the teaching concerning the Resurrection is reliable?
 
On a more personal note…if I try to picture myself as Mary’s husband, a Jew who not only would have had a good knowledge of this story, but who would have had an Angel tell me that the child she carried was God’s son…would I ever feel like it was my place or duty as her husband to defile that space? Maybe that is just me (and I’m not a man, so I don’t know), but I don’t think I could find it in me to be where God had been.
I too have thought of this, and I would agree. I would feel more like God the Father was her real husband and I was merely the husband’s friend who was to look after her.
 
JM3, I think you’re misunderstanding the purpose of the thread…im not asking for proof, im asking about its importance.

Peace be with you
Right! I missed that part of your original question. The importance- hmmm, I guess the importance is to show the utter and complete transformational, life-changing event this was for Mary. If she had gone on to live a normal life, the whole account of the annunciation, nativity and so on, would be reduced to the ordinary. And there was nothing ordinary about this event. It shows how she devoted her entire life to her mission, which was being the Mother of God. It wasn’t a part-time job for her. It was a career! It also serves as a model for our Nuns. But the importance of it is secondary to the fact that it is just simply true. And the truth is important just because it’s true. 🙂
 
Okay buddy here is why, I am not holy and I am not the ark of the Covenant.

Read luke 1:39 and compare it to 2 Sam 6:2. Actually read all of Sam and Luke and you will pick up what I am trying to lay down for you.

Now in plain english, I am not as we agree a Virgin with a Son,and not the ark of the Covenant. The Ark of the Cov. is sealed.

Let me put this another way, Once you have sex you are no longer pure, a virgin, See what I am saying. I cannot have sex and stay a virgin, my womb is no longer pure. See what I am saying.

The Virgin Mary remained Pure get it a VIRGIN!

How could the Virgin Mary REMAIN the Innocent Un-Defiled INNOCENT ark of the New Covenant as described in Luke if she was no longer a virgin. See what I am saying?

So now let me ask you this, I think this will help you see even better. How can I be a Virgin, un-defiled okay, before marriage, but then get married and have sex and still remain un-defiled:eek: Why am I not still a virgin, why am I considered de-filed? Because I had Sex!! Got it!

That is why she remained de-filed. Because her womb remained HOLY, Inocent, Pure. The Ark of the Covenant had to be.

Now got back and read 2 Sam and what the Ark of the Cov.

Then go back to the N.T. the ark of the Cov. remains pure, un-defiled.
Firstly, Im not here to argue so please dont be hostile. I’m here Just to understand. I won’t continue on if you keep getting angry like that. Secondly, to maybe help you understand what my understanding of defile here is the definition: “to make foul, dirty, or unclean; pollute; taint; debase.” If its not a sin to have sex in marriage and sin is what makes us “foul, dirty, and unclean” than it wouldn’t make much sense in my mind to say she was “defiled” if she ended up having sex within marriage. It makes it seem as if there is a stigma about the doctrine that makes sex within marriage look bad. Thats all im saying.

Please i’m not here to argue. Just curious and doing my due diligence. I could be your brother one day.

Peace be with you rinnie
 
I used to be a Protestant and an Anglican church, too! 🙂 I finally became Catholic in 2010, and I’ll admit that the Marian doctrines seemed really strange to me when I was a Protestant. I had the same questions about the perpetual virginity, it just doesn’t seem necessary at first glance.

If you have a Catechism of the Catholic Church, the teachings on the virginity of Mary are in paragraphs 496-507. Lumen Gentium 57 might also be helpful. Both can be found on the web if you don’t.

I think what was helpful for me in understanding all of the Marian dogmas (perpetual virginity, immaculate conception - boy that was the toughest for me I think, the assumption, etc) is thinking of it in terms not of being necessary, but more of being fitting. Sex is certainly not a bad thing within marriage, so it wouldn’t have been “sinful” for her to have sex within her marriage. Traditionally understood, Mary made a vow of virginity even before she was married to Joseph (which is why she asked the angel during the annunciation how it would be possible for her to get pregnant). St. Augustine wrote about Mary’s perpetual virginity, and we see that even in the early church they believed it. But more than that, it’s fitting that the woman who gave birth to God, who carried the incarnation within her own body, should be a virgin.

As for celibacy vs. virginity, see the Catechism paragraph 2349. It quotes from St. Ambrose: “There are three forms of the virtue of chastity: the first is that of spouses, the second is that of widows, and the third is that of virgins. We do not praise any one of them to the exclusion of the others … This is what makes for the richness of the discipline of the Church.”

But the Church does recognize that some people are called to a consecrated celibacy, like in Mary’s case, or in the case of priests or other religious. It frees them up in a way to give themselves wholeheartedly to God alone. But of course we know that sex within a marriage is healthy and also images the trinity, so it’s not a case of better or worse, just different states of life.

Also see Rev 14:3-4: “They were singing (what seemed to be) a new hymn before the throne, before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn this hymn except the hundred and forty-four thousand who had been ransomed from the earth. These are they who were not defiled with women; they are virgins and these are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They have been ransomed as the firstfruits of the human race for God and the Lamb.”

Anyway, hope that’s helpful! Good luck to you! It is such an exciting journey, I’ll be praying for you! 🙂
This really helps. Thank you for your response!
 
Aslan10 -

Maybe the difficulty you are having is one I had when I first converted from the Southern Baptist church… Are you thinking of Mary as “an average Jewish woman who just so happened to pious enough that God chose her to carry his son”? That is the way it was always taught to me as a Baptist.

But, as a Catholic, I now understand Mary as “a Holy woman, set apart by God before her birth, conceived without sin and dedicated to God, for the very purpose of bringing his Son into the world”.

There is a big difference there. An average pious woman would not be expected to remain a virgin even though she were married, just as there is no sin in my having relations with my husband. But I am not Mary – Mary was not an average Jewish woman…she was chosen and Holy from the moment of her conception.

Does that help at all?
To expand upon this. Since Mary was chosen for the specific purpose of having and raising Jesus, giving her any other sole purpose would be defiling her. Anything that is used for something other than it’s sole purpose is defiling that thing. So, technically, if you use a wrench as a hammer, you are defiling the wrench, because it isn’t made to be used as a hammer. If you have sex outside of marriage, you are defiling yourself and the other person because human sex was designed to be within a marriage (or so our beliefs go). Using a laptop as a frisbee is defiling the laptop. Does this make sense?

Granted, the defiling of some things are not as of as much importance as somethings. Being that we are creatures of God, the defiling of such a thing is worse than defiling something that is man-made (like the wrench or laptop). Also, if you have something that is man-made that is made for God, like a church or a blessed object, then using that for something other than the work of God, or defacing such a thing, is wrong (graffitiing a church, intentionally peeing in the holy water, using a blessed object as a toy).
 
To expand upon this. Since Mary was chosen for the specific purpose of having and raising Jesus, giving her any other sole purpose would be defiling her. Anything that is used for something other than it’s sole purpose is defiling that thing. So, technically, if you use a wrench as a hammer, you are defiling the wrench, because it isn’t made to be used as a hammer. If you have sex outside of marriage, you are defiling yourself and the other person because human sex was designed to be within a marriage (or so our beliefs go). Using a laptop as a frisbee is defiling the laptop. Does this make sense?

Granted, the defiling of some things are not as of as much importance as somethings. Being that we are creatures of God, the defiling of such a thing is worse than defiling something that is man-made (like the wrench or laptop). Also, if you have something that is man-made that is made for God, like a church or a blessed object, then using that for something other than the work of God, or defacing such a thing, is wrong (graffitiing a church, intentionally peeing in the holy water, using a blessed object as a toy).
This is a very helpful analogy. So it wouldn’t necessarily be the sex that would’ve defiled her but the act of being something she wasn’t meant to be? Am i on the right track with that one?
 
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