Is this non-Catholic Christians or can anyone play?
You don’t have to convert to any denomination or religion, it is a matter of personal choice.
Your question is a catholic question in terms of the CC through many of you seem to be telling non-catholics that we should become catholics. I don’t tell you that you should stop being a catholic and become part of another denomination.
Since regardless of their Church teaching Catholics do not allow me to identify as Catholic, may I play too? :bounce: Here’s one possible scenario. Even if a non Catholic were to believe the Catholic Church at one time was the Church founded by God, they might see reasons. Lets say a non Catholic sees the humans within Her as having strayed. It might be perhaps believing teaching was even off from early on. Or the non Catholic might recognize abuses. Or believes there has been corruption, legalistic rules brought forth. Or believes leaders have beared fruits by which we shall know them by and thus are to beware of them. And they believe Christ then has to reform His Church in order to keep His promise of the gates not prevailing. If Christ can change disciplines, change His mind about the age at which a fasting obligation begins, and so forth in the Catholic Church for instance, then He surely can change His earthly leadership as needed as well.
Interesting question.
I assume that non-Catholics can play. You may join any Christian denomination that you wish, provided you have tested the practices of that denomination and found them useful. Since practices are often driven by beliefs then you also need to look at beliefs as well.
I am a very recent convert to the Catholic Church. For over 5 years I wrestled with the question you are asking. Somewhere during those years I began to realize the importance of the Eucharist. I searched for a faith or denomination that had the same understanding of the Lord’s Supper, but could not find any except of course the CC. Once I began to study the catechism I found a lot more that was right with the Church. Is there a valid reason why I should consider a non-Catholic church? Why should I listen to the preachers, commentators, and writers of today when I can read the preachers, commentators, and writers that actually knew the apostles and what was practiced and taught in the early Church? I don’t think so.
This question could be turned right back on you in a most similar way. I could ask you as a Protestant would ask - “What is more important a relationship with Christ where we give our lives to Him or the Church we belong to.”
If non-Christians may be allowed to respond, I will offer my opinion. But first I would want to find out whether this is a hypothetical question or whether you are having reservations about your conversion to Catholicism. If you are happy where you are, I would not wish to change your mind in another direction. Assuming I am making the case for Judaism, you would have to be a willing convert since Jews are forbidden to proselytize and, in fact, dissuade converts three times to make sure they understand that the conversion process is quite challenging on an internal as well as external level and not to be taken lightly. More to follow based on your response.
Not at all my intention to distract nor derail nor debate any “problem” issue here. But since you spoke in these terms. I would first question if “very very good Christian brothers here” need motivated. You speak of a start to solve a particular issue as Christians unite for the greater good. I’m not sure many, if in fact any, of those you speak of would actually personally make the legal choice of choosing to have done to them what you refer to as a problem issue. So the greater unity you seek, while perhaps not existing in secular politics, but in the religious sense as Christians may already exist.
:clapping:Interesting question.
There is a facet to the question that I would like to explore, though it does not directly address your primary inquiry [my apologies, if you regard this as a derailing of the thread].
Is the Catholic Church the original church founded by God? Do Protestant and Orthodox Churches share history with the Catholic Church?
The Catholic Church – with resulting investiture of the Bishop of Rome, years later – started with Peter.
As did the Protestant and Orthodox Churches.
With Peter’s proclamation to Jesus, at Caesarea Philippi, the Church of Christ was initiated, though not called Catholic, nor Protestant, nor Orthodox, at the time.
When the Apostle Paul was evangelizing, there was no Catholic Church, nor Protestant Church, but separate churches in local districts, learning of and from each other.
The early Catholic Fathers were instrumental in knitting virtually all of the foundational beliefs of the Christian faith, by dogma and doctrine, canon and continuance.
About 500 years ago, some Catholics took exception to certain tenets of the Catholic direction, and steered differently accordingly, acquiring the Protestant appellation.
It is an error to conclude that the history of the Protestant Church started only 500 years ago.
The history of the Protestant Church started 2000 years ago, but altered from the Catholic current, some 500 years ago.
The history of the Catholic Church is not the exclusive prerogative of the Catholic Church; the Protestant and Orthodox Churches share the very same earliest history.
The Holy Spirit is within and among all members of the branches of the Church of Christ, whether the branch be called Catholic, or Protestant, or Orthodox.
Ah, so your question was a baiting question. Now I understand your motive.
].You shouldn’t believe ANYTHING based simply on some clever piece of logic some human can weave into an apologetics argument. When it comes to matters of this scale, you should only believe in whatever church or belief system is consistent with what your mind and heart and soul know to be true. At the risk of violating your precondition to not derail the thread, I will suggest that you are asking an unproductive question. Any answers you might turn up may well be interesting as an intellectual exercise, but the underlying goal of apologetics - to establish that no reasonable person can fail to believe in X or Y religion, is a fool’s quest.
How much later, in your opinion?Well, Saint Peter was Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox.
The Church of Christ started with Jesus’ declarations to Peter - but His Church - as much His Protestant or Orthodox Church, as His Catholic Church - was launched by Our Lord.
The early Church was a disparate, but growing collection of believers, with local leadership.
Catholicism - with central authority from the Bishop of Rome - would begin much later.
I got it that you were being sarcastic about Protestants