Impotence and Infertility

[BuphiloCatholic]

I looked for another thread before posting this question and could not find one. But I was wondering, if a man is impotent or infertile, does that mean he can never marry? After all he would be preventing the woman from having children by marrying her if he was infertile, and he could not give sexual stimulation except by manual or oral means if impotent.

Are the impotent and infertile sexually “untouchable” as catholics. If so, why doesn’t God eliminate their sex drives?

Any thoughts?

 

[Seatuck]

Impotence is an impediment to marriage. Sterility is not.

Canon 1084.1 Antecedent and perpetual impotence to have sexual intercourse, whether on the part of the man or on that of the woman, whether absolute or relative, by its very nature invalidates marriage.
Canon 1084.2 If the impediment of impotence is doubtful, whether the doubt be one of law or one of fact, the marriage is not to be prevented nor, while the doubt persists, is it to be declared null.
Canon 1084.3 Without prejudice to the provisions of canon 1098, sterility neither forbids nor invalidates a marriage.

 

[BuphiloCatholic]

Seatuck…

So then the impotent are simply out of luck…destined to be utterly alone and unloved (in the marital sense)?

So then, why does God not concomitantly free them from the need for marital love?

Seems like a rotten state of affairs to me.

 

[davidv]

Seatuck…

So then the impotent are simply out of luck…destined to be utterly alone and unloved (in the marital sense)?

So then, why does God not concomitantly free them from the need for marital love?

Seems like a rotten state of affairs to me.

There are many more ways to love, and to be loved, than sexual, and most of them are more loving, in the truest sense of the word.

So the fact that you are single does not deny you the love you need, even in the absence of sexual love.

So, a single celebate life is far, far from rotten. In fact it may a holier way for you.

 

[BuphiloCatholic]

There are many more ways to love, and to be loved, than sexual, and most of them are more loving, in the truest sense of the word.

So the fact that you are single does not deny you the love you need, even in the absence of sexual love.

So, a single celebate life is far, far from rotten. In fact it may a holier way for you.

I’ve been single for 35 years. It is rotten. Especially when you strongly desire female attention and companionship and can have neither for the rest of your life. God is terrific. But god won’t run his fingers through your hair at night or stroke your face and tell you how glad he is that you’re around to protect him and keep him company!

Holiness = A lifetime of utterly abject loneliness. And I cannot stand loneliness. Not another second.

 

[HappyHeretic]

Wow, gotta say BuphiloCatholic your story is so sad it compelled me to write.

I would suggest the words of Paul Tillich here:

"If one has to choose between different authorities, not they but oneself is ultimate authority for oneself, and this means: there is no authority for him."
(religion-online.org/showchapter.asp?title=375&C=23)

Why do you give over authority of your life to a human institution? You are a free human being who can think for yourself and choose for yourself what is right. In the gospel of Luke 12:57, Jesus says: "And why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?

There are medications and treatments you can explore for impotence. And so long as you find a woman who loves you for you, you should feel completely free to pursue relationships and marriage. Don’t let the church push you around.

 

[BuphiloCatholic]

Wow, gotta say BuphiloCatholic your story is so sad it compelled me to write.

I would suggest the words of Paul Tillich here:

"If one has to choose between different authorities, not they but oneself is ultimate authority for oneself, and this means: there is no authority for him."
(religion-online.org/showchapter.asp?title=375&C=23)

Why do you give over authority of your life to a human institution? You are a free human being who can think for yourself and choose for yourself what is right. In the gospel of Luke 12:57, Jesus says: "And why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?

There are medications and treatments you can explore for impotence. And so long as you find a woman who loves you for you, you should feel completely free to pursue relationships and marriage. Don’t let the church push you around.

Heretic, I appreciate the thought. But I am neither impotent nor infertile, so far as I am aware. I am however interested to know why any God fills people with impulses, desires, drives, etc…that they cannot ever fulfill. I have been single for 35 years of my life. I deeply long for female contact and companionship. But women typically look on me as a monster to be avoided.

I want to understand why God, if he truly desires that we all be happy, or even as Rascal implied if he morally requires us to be happy (unhappy people make the world worse)…if this is the case why give us desires that are completely impossible for us to fill?

 

[Seatuck]

Seatuck…

So then the impotent are simply out of luck…destined to be utterly alone and unloved (in the marital sense)?

So then, why does God not concomitantly free them from the need for marital love?

Seems like a rotten state of affairs to me.

You have to see that Marriage is a sacrament and as such it has a purpose which happens to include making an attempt to be fruitful and bear children if possible. This cannot be done if one is unable to do so physically. Marriage also is designed to bring about a special closeness due to the physical love between man and woman.

People can have fulfilling lives through service and love to others in other types of relationships.

God is with us through all our disappointments in life and sends us the grace to bear them.He does not take away the things that have the power to transform us when we learn and live with suffering.He gave us his perfect example of suffering for us to follow when we have suffering in our lives.

 

[Seatuck]

I’ve been single for 35 years. It is rotten. Especially when you strongly desire female attention and companionship and can have neither for the rest of your life. God is terrific. But god won’t run his fingers through your hair at night or stroke your face and tell you how glad he is that you’re around to protect him and keep him company!

Holiness = A lifetime of utterly abject loneliness. And I cannot stand loneliness. Not another second.

Then please get some help from a counselor or priest.

You have put male/female love on a pedestal and won’t be satisfied until you attain it. Don’t make a God out of it. We already have a God. Instead, look to see what else He has in store for you.

 

[BuphiloCatholic]

Then please get some help from a counselor or priest.

You have put male/female love on a pedestal and won’t be satisfied until you attain it. Don’t make a God out of it. We already have a God. Instead, look to see what else He has in store for you.

Like what? Seriously? Not Holy orders (I am too far in financial debt from college loans to accepted into religious life)? What else is there, accept a life of utter and abject loneliness and terror?

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

Like what? Seriously? Not Holy orders (I am too far in financial debt from college loans to accepted into religious life)? What else is there, accept a life of utter and abject loneliness and terror?

Come on… you posted another thread about being an overweight, porno looking, lonely, masturbating, ugly guy. “See Below”

BuphiloCatholic:

I am 35 years old. Single. Male. Never been married. For much of my life I have been very obese. However in the last 6 months by the grace of God I’ve been able to drop 98 pounds. I’m still heavyset, and overweight, but I am losing about 10-15 pounds per month. Moreover in the past 6 years, I’ve struggled with sexual sin. Porn. Masturbation. On line sex chat etc… But by the grace of God, who pulled me recently back into the Church I have put those addictions behind me.

Which one is it…? Don’t mind helping you find yourself, but prefer not to have my chain hanked…unless this is strictly an exercises for discussion, which say that so we know what your argument is and we can debate, instead of pretending to need direction when you intend to possibly take the conversation over a cliff. Is this a cliff hike or do you honestly want to discuss impotence… The Catholic Church says as long as you have the possibility of conception and you can consummate the marriage, even with an implant, you are good to go… hope that helps…or are you going to take this conversation on a side road?

 

[chazk728]

Which one is it…? Don’t mind helping you find yourself, but prefer not to have my chain hanked…unless this is strictly an exercises for discussion, which say that so we know what your argument is and we can debate, instead of pretending to need direction when you intend to possibly take the conversation over a cliff. Is this a cliff hike or do you honestly want to discuss impotence… The Catholic Church says as long as you have the possibility of conception and you can consummate the marriage, even with an implant, you are good to go… hope that helps…or are you going to take this conversation on a side road?

Perhaps the OP sees himself not being able to marry in the short term and is therefore asking about impotence - not to discuss the practical aspects of impotence as an impediment to marriage - but rather to ask about how those who struggle with impotence accept their suffering, discern a vocation, etc.

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

Perhaps the OP sees himself not being able to marry in the short term and is therefore asking about impotence - not to discuss the practical aspects of impotence as an impediment to marriage - but rather to ask about how those who struggle with impotence accept their suffering, discern a vocation, etc.

You could be right although he was taking the other thread down a similar path using the lonely, ugly overweight angle. He was unwilling to look at overweight, ugly, lonely women however… This is good exercise, but it will be interesting if he takes this some other direction… Do you feel like a lemming today?

 

[BuphiloCatholic]

Perhaps the OP sees himself not being able to marry in the short term and is therefore asking about impotence - not to discuss the practical aspects of impotence as an impediment to marriage - but rather to ask about how those who struggle with impotence accept their suffering, discern a vocation, etc.

That’s exactly what I am curious about. How do people handle a situation where they have a very strong desire for intimacy, no desire to be celibate, and yet they are forced by the church to remain celibate their entire lives even though the desire never goes away. Cause that is essentially the boat I am in.

I find it hard to imagine that Our Loving Father intended us to be utterly alone and miserable our whole lives, with no human physical contact. It’s heartbreaking.

 

[chazk728]

That’s exactly what I am curious about. How do people handle a situation where they have a very strong desire for intimacy, no desire to be celibate, and yet they are forced by the church to remain celibate their entire lives even though the desire never goes away. Cause that is essentially the boat I am in.

I find it hard to imagine that Our Loving Father intended us to be utterly alone and miserable our whole lives, with no human physical contact. It’s heartbreaking.

What you’re looking for is an understanding of human suffering. Read “On The Christian Meaning of Human Suffering” by Pope John Paul II. Part of the answer is that we live in a disordered world. And so in this life, our desires are often not met. Ask the paraplegic who wants to walk, the impotent who wants to marry, the imprisoned who want to be free, the destitute who simply want food and shelter. If our earthly desires were all that mattered, the future would be miserable. But of all religions, Catholicism has an answer to these injustices. It is that this world was unjust to God Himself. This earthly life is not all that matters. The injustices of this world will be undone at the Resurrection. Don’t let anyone take that hope away from you.

Last point, on a purely human level, you will not be able to appreciate this while you are in the midst of it, but depression does not last forever. It is a symptom of one who is depressed to think that he or she will always remain depressed. But it’s not true. The joys of life - even great joys like marriage and children - are transient (ask someone who has divorced). Our pain too is only temporary.

 

[BuphiloCatholic]

What you’re looking for is an understanding of human suffering. Read “On The Christian Meaning of Human Suffering” by Pope John Paul II. Part of the answer is that we live in a disordered world. And so in this life, our desires are often not met. Ask the paraplegic who wants to walk, the impotent who wants to marry, the imprisoned who want to be free, the destitute who simply want food and shelter. If our earthly desires were all that mattered, the future would be miserable. But of all religions, Catholicism has an answer to these injustices. It is that this world was unjust to God Himself. This earthly life is not all that matters. The injustices of this world will be undone at the Resurrection. Don’t let anyone take that hope away from you.

Last point, on a purely human level, you will not be able to appreciate this while you are in the midst of it, but depression does not last forever. It is a symptom of one who is depressed to think that he or she will always remain depressed. But it’s not true. The joys of life - even great joys like marriage and children - are transient (ask someone who has divorced). Our pain too is only temporary.

How will the resurrection undo the injustice of having to live and die alone and unloved by other humans? There is no marriage in Heaven (as St. Paul teaches us). There is presumably no sex. So there is no human intimacy/contact. But there is ongoing awareness of our life spent being hated by everyone ion the world?

I realize that the Resurrected will be with Christ. But of course it would be the sin presumption to think i will be one of them. In facts, odds are, even if I am a loyal and devoted Church goer, I won’t be one of them. (As others here are fond to point out “narrow is the way and few there are who find it”).

So odds are, this is the only life I will get. I will be utterly alone throughout it, then I will die and never live again. And that will all have been God’s will.

 

[chazk728]

How will the resurrection undo the injustice of having to live and die alone and unloved by other humans? There is no marriage in Heaven (as St. Paul teaches us). There is presumably no sex. So there is no human intimacy/contact. But there is ongoing awareness of our life spent being hated by everyone ion the world?

Knowing that I’ll be single in this life as well, I’ve asked myself the same question about Heaven. It has helped me to remember that God alone satisfies the desires of the human heart, and however difficult it is to believe right now, eternity with Him will leave no unfulfilled desires. C.S. Lewis, who did not marry until age 58, wrote this about our desires:

We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.

 

[BuphiloCatholic]

Knowing that I’ll be single in this life as well, I’ve asked myself the same question about Heaven. It has helped me to remember that God alone satisfies the desires of the human heart, and however difficult it is to believe right now, eternity with Him will leave no unfulfilled desires. C.S. Lewis, who did not marry until age 58, wrote this about our desires:

We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.

I love Lewis. But seriously…it’s the sin of presumption to think any of us is being offered anything. Odds are we won’t be Heaven. No matter how faithful we are. Or at least we can never presume to know in this life that we’ve merited salvation.

In fact I am pretty sure I have not.

 

[OraLabora]

Perpetual impotence must be very rare these days in Western society. There are so many pills, injections and implants available. The only obstacle I guess would be cost.

 

[kage_ar]

That’s exactly what I am curious about. How do people handle a situation where they have a very strong desire for intimacy, no desire to be celibate, and yet they are forced by the church to remain celibate their entire lives even though the desire never goes away. Cause that is essentially the boat I am in.

I find it hard to imagine that Our Loving Father intended us to be utterly alone and miserable our whole lives, with no human physical contact. It’s heartbreaking.

How do those of us who have a strong desire for physical activity, no desire to be crippled, and yet the body God gave them cannot run or even stand for more than one minute, cannot bend to touch the floor, cannot climb stairs?

We offer our sufferings up to Jesus on the Cross, we embrace our cross and know that it brings us closer to holiness. Or we wallow in bitterness.