Impotence and Infertility

[BuphiloCatholic]

How do those of us who have a strong desire for physical activity, no desire to be crippled, and yet the body God gave them cannot run or even stand for more than one minute, cannot bend to touch the floor, cannot climb stairs?

We offer our sufferings up to Jesus on the Cross, we embrace our cross and know that it brings us closer to holiness. Or we wallow in bitterness.

Do we know that it brings us one iota closer to holiness? Isn’t that the sin of presumption? As far as I can tell the Church can make us no such promise. God makes holy who he makes holy and many people who think they are growing holier are just deceived.

 

[kage_ar]

Do we know that it brings us one iota closer to holiness? Isn’t that the sin of presumption? As far as I can tell the Church can make us no such promise. God makes holy who he makes holy and many people who think they are growing holier are just deceived.

I would suggest some study of the redemptive value of suffering. These are a few places to begin.

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_11021984_salvifici-doloris_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/alpha/data/aud19881109en.html

vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/saints/ns_lit_doc_20040425_da-costa_en.html

ewtn.com/library/mother/mal14.htm

 

[BuphiloCatholic]

I would suggest some study of the redemptive value of suffering. These are a few places to begin.

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_11021984_salvifici-doloris_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/alpha/data/aud19881109en.html

vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/saints/ns_lit_doc_20040425_da-costa_en.html

ewtn.com/library/mother/mal14.htm

I wasn’t asking a general question about redemption and suffering. I was asking you, isn’t it in point of fact an utter presumption, and therefore a sin, to think that because we suffer we are being made holier? Isn’t it the Catholic view that no living Human can ever know that he or she is going to Heaven? Am I missing something? That knowledge is God’s not ours. To be sure, we sill not get to heaven without good works, but all of our good works could just as well be utterly for naught. Thus telling someone to suffer, because it is redemptive is misleading. And it inclines them to presumption. Shouldn’t you rather say, suffer because it might be redemptive? but of course that is much less consoling. Because in that case you must it admit it might not be redemptive at all in which case you are telling some to suffer without hope of amelioration because that’s there lot and it is not going to change.

 

[kage_ar]

I wasn’t asking a general question about redemption and suffering. I was asking you, isn’t it in point of fact an utter presumption, and therefore a sin, to think that because we suffer we are being made holier? Isn’t it the Cathoilc view no living Human can ever no he or she is going to Heaven? Am I missing something. That knowledge is God’s not ours. To be sure we sill not get to heaven without good works, but all of our good works could just as well be utterly for naught. Thus telling someone to suffer, because it is redemptive is misleading. And it inclines them to presumption. Shouldn’t you rather say, suffer because it might be redemptive? but of course that is much less consoling. Because in that case you must it admit it might not be redemptive at all in which case you are telling some to suffer without hope of amelioration because that’s there lot and it is not going to change.

Jesus died to bring us hope.

Spend time in scripture study, before the blessed sacrament, in prayer. It is tragic that you seem to have no joy and no hope. Divine Mercy Sunday is coming, perhaps begin a Novena?

Yes, I trust Jesus, I trust his Church, I have hope, from the CCC:

Hope

[1817](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1817.htm’) Hope is the theological virtue by which we desire the kingdom of heaven and eternal life as our happiness, placing our trust in Christ’s promises and relying not on our own strength, but on the help of the grace of the Holy Spirit. "Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful."84 "The Holy Spirit . . . he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life."85

[1818](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1818.htm’) The virtue of hope responds to the aspiration to happiness which God has placed in the heart of every man; it takes up the hopes that inspire men’s activities and purifies them so as to order them to the Kingdom of heaven; it keeps man from discouragement; it sustains him during times of abandonment; it opens up his heart in expectation of eternal beatitude. Buoyed up by hope, he is preserved from selfishness and led to the happiness that flows from charity.

[1819](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1819.htm’) Christian hope takes up and fulfills the hope of the chosen people which has its origin and model in the hope of Abraham, who was blessed abundantly by the promises of God fulfilled in Isaac, and who was purified by the test of the sacrifice.86 "Hoping against hope, he believed, and thus became the father of many nations."87

[1820](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1820.htm’) Christian hope unfolds from the beginning of Jesus’ preaching in the proclamation of the beatitudes. The beatitudes raise our hope toward heaven as the new Promised Land; they trace the path that leads through the trials that await the disciples of Jesus. But through the merits of Jesus Christ and of his Passion, God keeps us in the "hope that does not disappoint."88 Hope is the "sure and steadfast anchor of the soul . . . that enters . . . where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf."89 Hope is also a weapon that protects us in the struggle of salvation: "Let us . . . put on the breastplate of faith and charity, and for a helmet the hope of salvation."90 It affords us joy even under trial: "Rejoice in your hope, be patient in tribulation."91 Hope is expressed and nourished in prayer, especially in the Our Father, the summary of everything that hope leads us to desire.

[1821](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1821.htm’) We can therefore hope in the glory of heaven promised by God to those who love him and do his will.92 In every circumstance, each one of us should hope, with the grace of God, to persevere "to the end"93 and to obtain the joy of heaven, as God’s eternal reward for the good works accomplished with the grace of Christ. In hope, the Church prays for "all men to be saved."94 She longs to be united with Christ, her Bridegroom, in the glory of heaven:
Hope, O my soul, hope. You know neither the day nor the hour. Watch carefully, for everything passes quickly, even though your impatience makes doubtful what is certain, and turns a very short time into a long one. Dream that the more you struggle, the more you prove the love that you bear your God, and the more you will rejoice one day with your Beloved, in a happiness and rapture that can never end.95

 

[BuphiloCatholic]

Jesus died to bring us hope.

Spend time in scripture study, before the blessed sacrament, in prayer. It is tragic that you seem to have no joy and no hope. Divine Mercy Sunday is coming, perhaps begin a Novena?

Yes, I trust Jesus, I trust his Church

Of course I hope to be saved. but I don’t know that I will be. In fact it is a sin to even speculate. So I can’t know that when I am alone and suffering, I am really objectively getting holier. I could simply be deluded in my piety. In that case I am suffering alone and no good comes of it whether I hope or not.

I think the question I have is, do you think you yourself are going to heaven? If so isn’t that a sin of presumption.

 

[chazk728]

Rejoice in your hope, be patient in tribulation."91 Hope is expressed and nourished in prayer, especially in the Our Father, the summary of everything that hope leads us to desire.

[1821](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1821.htm’) We can therefore hope in the glory of heaven promised by God to those who love him and do his will.92 In every circumstance, each one of us should hope, with the grace of God, to persevere "to the end"93 and to obtain the joy of heaven, as God’s eternal reward for the good works accomplished with the grace of Christ.

Thank you for sharing these words from the Catechism. They’re beautiful, and they can give us hope even in difficult situations.

 

[kage_ar]

Of course I hope to be saved. but I don’t know that I will be. In fact it is a sin to even speculate. So I can’t know that when I am alone and suffering, I am really objectively getting holier. I could simply be deluded in my piety. In that case I am suffering alone and no good comes of it whether I hope or not.

I think the question I have is, do you think you yourself are going to heaven? If so isn’t that a sin of presumption.

This is your thread, so, not sure how the rules will go about rabbit trails.

Scripture and Doctrine teach us to hope and to believe, to have faith.

Hope and Faith are not presumption.

Presumption says “I can commit this sin, I’ll just go to confession and be forgiven”

Hope says “I have sinned, and I have confessed. I have been forgiven and have the hope of heaven”.

 

[davidv]

I’ve been single for 35 years. It is rotten.

Frankly, I think you have only yourself to blame for this.

Especially when you strongly desire female attention and companionship and can have neither for the rest of your life. God is terrific. But god won’t run his fingers through your hair at night or stroke your face and tell you how glad he is that you’re around to protect him and keep him company!

I don’t think if you got this that you would be happy.

Holiness = A lifetime of utterly abject loneliness. And I cannot stand loneliness. Not another second.

If you truely think this, you’re reading from the wrong book. Get right with God. All else is for naught until you do.

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

Do you feel like a lemming today?..

 

[BuphiloCatholic]

This is your thread, so, not sure how the rules will go about rabbit trails.

Scripture and Doctrine teach us to hope and to believe, to have faith.

Hope and Faith are not presumption.

Presumption says “I can commit this sin, I’ll just go to confession and be forgiven”

Hope says “I have sinned, and I have confessed. I have been forgiven and have the hope of heaven”.

What’s the point of having the hope of heaven, if you are not in fact ever going there? So, as I asked, you said that if I have to spend my life alone I should offer it as a sacrifice to God and know that I am growing holier…when in fact it even more likely (given that the way is narrow and few find it) that I am simply deluded and not growing at all and the suffering is just suffering…for nothing.

Or I am missing something?

 

[BuphiloCatholic]

Frankly, I think you have only yourself to blame for this.

I don’t think if you got this that you would be happy.

If you truely think this, you’re reading from the wrong book. Get right with God. All else is for naught until you do.

I am getting right with God, i’ve come back to the church, begun praying, going to confession, and attending mass twice a week at least. I believe God has helped free of some of my addictions to sin, and even of other sins. I am really doing my best.

But my worry is that I will be alone for the rest of my life and thus deeply unhappy and isolated. I also worry that am doing this all for naught, since I cannot know objectively that God wants to save me or is working in my life (since to claim that knowledge would be the sin of presumption).

 

[davidv]

What’s the point of having the hope of heaven, if you are not in fact ever going there?

Don’t you want to be there? It is your choice.

So, as I asked, you said that if I have to spend my life alone I should offer it as a sacrifice to God and know that I am growing holier…when in fact it even more likely (given that the way is narrow and few find it) that I am simply deluded and not growing at all and the suffering is just suffering…for nothing.

Or I am missing something?

Yes you are missing quite a lot. The only suffering that is for nothing are those not offered up in union with Jesus’.

 

[kage_ar]

What’s the point of having the hope of heaven, if you are not in fact ever going there? So, as I asked, you said that if I have to spend my life alone I should offer it as a sacrifice to God and know that I am growing holier…when in fact it even more likely (given that the way is narrow and few find it) that I am simply deluded and not growing at all and the suffering is just suffering…for nothing.

Or I am missing something?

You need spiritual direction.

Find a good priest, set up an appointment and have him assist you in finding a spiritual director.

I’ve given you what has worked for me, prayer and reading and living the Faith. Sticking with the Sacraments, go to Adoration and spend time on your face before God.

Liturgy of the Hours www.divineoffice.org.

God is the only thing that can fill the hole inside you.

 

[BuphiloCatholic]

Don’t you want to be there? It is your choice.

Yes you are missing quite a lot. The only suffering that is for nothing are those not offered up in union with Jesus’.

It’s not “my” choice. if it were my choice, then I would know I was going because I choose for Heaven. But I cannot know, since to claim to know would be the sin of presumption. So if I cannot know, then it cannot be my choice. It must be God’s choice. I trust God to choose in my favor, but that is no guarantee that he will. In fact the scripture says that the odds are he will not (since the way is narrow and few find it, and it is not likely that I am one of the few).

 

[kage_ar]

John 3:16

 

[davidv]

It’s not “my” choice. if it were my choice, then I would know I was going because I choose for Heaven. But I cannot know, since to claim to know would be the sin of presumption. So if I cannot know, then it cannot be my choice. It must be God’s choice. I trust God to choose in my favor, but that is no guarantee that he will. In fact the scripture says that the odds are he will not (since the way is narrow and few find it, and it is not likely that I am one of the few).

You are quite wrong. Every choice you make leads you to heaven or hell. If you consistently make moral choices, the Church teaches that you can be confident, though not assured, of heaven. God won’t choose in your favor if you don’t choose him.
Duet 30:19:

I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that I have set before you life and death,** bless**ing and curse; therefore choose life, that you and your descendants may live,

Choose life.

 

[Moscati]

What’s the point of having the hope of heaven, if you are not in fact ever going there? So, as I asked, you said that if I have to spend my life alone I should offer it as a sacrifice to God and know that I am growing holier…when in fact it even more likely (given that the way is narrow and few find it) that I am simply deluded and not growing at all and the suffering is just suffering…for nothing.

Or I am missing something?

I think you are actually leaning quite closer to the sin opposite presumption. It is also a sin to despair of salvation, remember.

And, honestly, I’m a little perturbed at your wallowing in your “suffering”, while you have an advanced education, family and friends, a roof over your head, access to the Sacraments, and your health (based on your other thread). Perhaps you ought to try exposing yourself to some of the “least of these” around your community–volunteer at a homeless shelter, or do some hospital or prison ministry. It might help you put some things in perspective.

 

[BuphiloCatholic]

I think you are actually leaning quite closer to the sin opposite presumption. It is also a sin to despair of salvation, remember.

And, honestly, I’m a little perturbed at your wallowing in your “suffering”, while you have an advanced education, family and friends, a roof over your head, access to the Sacraments, and your health (based on your other thread). Perhaps you ought to try exposing yourself to some of the “least of these” around your community–volunteer at a homeless shelter, or do some hospital or prison ministry. It might help you put some things in perspective.

I live on 12K a year. And in a few months my health insurance runs out. I have no family in this city. I have a few “close” friends. And my education is dross. It means nothing to me. I also know that I am utterly alone in this life and that no human being loves me for who I truly am. I pray to God. and I trust God. But as you just said I have no assurance. I was not the one who brought up suffering. it was someone else who said that if I was to be alone and unhappy my whole life then so be it i should offer that as sacrificial suffering to God. My only point was, that as far as we humans can know, that suffering is not making us any holier at all.

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

I live on 12K a year. And in a few months my health insurance runs out. I have no family in this city. I have a few “close” friends. And my education is dross. It means nothing to me. I also know that I am utterly alone in this life and that no human being loves me for who I truly am. I pray to God. and I trust God. But as you just said I have no assurance. I was not the one who brought up suffering. it was someone else who said that if I was to be alone and unhappy my whole life then so be it i should offer that as sacrificial suffering to God. My only point was, that as far as we humans can know, that suffering is not making us any holier at all.

Dear Commrade… The National Socialist have just passed a health care bill that your…ooops…my Grandchildren will pay for… You may not have assurance to get to heaven, but you certainly will have insurance for your medical…

Just another Lemming…

 

[Seatuck]

Like what? Seriously? Not Holy orders (I am too far in financial debt from college loans to accepted into religious life)? What else is there, accept a life of utter and abject loneliness and terror?

Get out and create a life for yourself. When you lose more of the weight get involved with volunteering and so forth. Set some goals. Plan to run a marathon.

Holy Orders is not the second prize for someone who loses and doesn’t get marriage as the first prize. Either God calls you for one or the other or he doesn’t.

Who exactly are you blaming for those college loans?

You need to keep up with the work God has started in you and stop worrying about what your future holds. Focus on the here and now. You obviously are a man who doesn’t like himself very much . I imagine a lot of that has to do with the self abuse. Give yourself some to time to heal.

You clearly need spiritual and perhaps mental health counseling to work on your self worth issues.