Impressions of the Tridentine Mass

[PrayforMallory]

Recently I attended an EF mass. I thought I would really like it because of growing up in the '50’s and learning to sing Gregorian chant at parish school. What disappointed me was that the music was like a performance. Only the choir sang (and I think chant is pretty easy to sing) and the song would go on and on while the priest continued on to another part of the mass. I felt like we weren’t praying with the priest like we do in the OF at my parish or like I remember doing. Is this common or was it more a matter of inexperience on the part of the choir? Does the Tridentine mass require that the congregation not sing? Also, in the 50’s we sang some hymns in English, don’t they do that anymore?

This parish has the EF at least once a month so I thought they would be used to it. The experience was disconcerting with the priest doing one thing, the choir another, and me trying to attend to the mass and being distracted by the music. Also, I liked being able to kneel when receiving communion (which I can’t do unless I have the altar rail for balance) but I missed the priest holding up the host and saying “body of Christ” and being able to respond “amen!”

As someone who advocates the Mass of All Time, I have to say “Thank You.” I hope more people will expose themselves to more of the Church’s treasures.

It was the same way for me, at first. Of course, the Novus Ordo was hard for me to learn when I converted.

It’s pretty much like riding a bike, learning a computer program, learning to drive, etc. It seems so strange at first, but after a few times it becomes natural and internalized, and the benefits become more apparent.

My advice (for what it’s worth) would be to keep going until it becomes more comfortable (which it eventually does). The first Mass is like any other first. It’s awkward, weird, and uncomfortable. But we all learned to read, to write, to check our email accounts, to balance a checkbook, to discipline our kids, etc. It becomes more awesome over time. Even if you end up not preferring it, it will change how you view the Novus Ordo, the Church, the Mass in general. It’s such a different experience.

Whatever happens, don’t put too much stock in these forums. Forums are filled with ill will. Frankly, if every Catholic went to 20 TLMs and 20 Novus Ordos, well, we might not be having these discussions.

 

[Auntie_M]

As someone who advocates the Mass of All Time, I have to say “Thank You.” I hope more people will expose themselves to more of the Church’s treasures.

It was the same way for me, at first. Of course, the Novus Ordo was hard for me to learn when I converted.

It’s pretty much like riding a bike, learning a computer program, learning to drive, etc. It seems so strange at first, but after a few times it becomes natural and internalized, and the benefits become more apparent.

My advice (for what it’s worth) would be to keep going until it becomes more comfortable (which it eventually does). The first Mass is like any other first. It’s awkward, weird, and uncomfortable. But we all learned to read, to write, to check our email accounts, to balance a checkbook, to discipline our kids, etc. It becomes more awesome over time. Even if you end up not preferring it, it will change how you view the Novus Ordo, the Church, the Mass in general. It’s such a different experience.

Whatever happens, don’t put too much stock in these forums. Forums are filled with ill will. Frankly, if every Catholic went to 20 TLMs and 20 Novus Ordos, well, we might not be having these discussions.

We all have to learn everything, even how to walk and talk. AND we all learn how to bicker too. As a convert, when you came into the church (or anyone for that matter) had to learn all about the Catholic Faith. It was a “simple time”. You had found the true faith and evidently loved it. But that wasn’t enough?

It is true that some people have to have visuals, and stimulation
to appreciate God or well, anything. And I am not saying this is wrong, it’s just that this is true. Others, can enjoy God on a mountaintop, in a tent, without any “visuals” to “up the spirit”

This is all about “emotions”, Where one person can break out in an all out cry over a sad movie, others just tear up. It is our nature to NEED different things. I can no more make that one person break out in an all out cry than I can make someone enjoy one mass over the other.

It is all “preference”, we Americans are used to getting the things we want, or fighting to have the things we want. We have never been an obedient people. (sometimes this is good and sometimes it isn’t). I, personally think,.that is the reason for all this controversary. We cannot be obedient enough to allow God to change what is not right. WE HAVE TO DO IT FOR HIM.

“Be still and KNOW that I am God” a very good verse to live by.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

Try the Low Mass if you wish to follow the priest verbatim.

I can follow the priest verbatim, no problem. My problem was that the choir wasn’t with the priest. For instance, they were still singing the Kyrie or Agnus Dei when the priest had moved on to the next part of the mass. So it seemed like the music was competing with the mass rather than intrinsic to it.

If you prefer it that way, OK, I guess. But how could you miss the priest’s praying that His Body would keep your soul until life everlasting? It is assumed that you know that It’s His Body.

I know what the priest was saying while my tongue was out. But he went so fast it didn’t seem reverent. I’m now used to making an act of reverence (bow since I can’t genuflect), look at the Host, respond, then receive. Just a preference, but it would have been nice to have been able to say amen to what the priest is saying before receiving.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

My experience of the EF Mass going back to the early 40’s was exactly the same. In several parishes in Minneapolis/St. Paul the TLM has been celebrated before the motu with professional or semi-professional music providers and they are beautiful, like attending a classical music concert or an opera. That is my problem, like a concert and not like I remember it. Some of my fellow parishioners really like it, but they are all about 30 years or more younger than I am.

Exactly. I remember in fourth grade learning to sing the kyrie, credo, gloria, agnus dei, etc. And we sang them at mass and had the missals so we knew what they meant and so we could pray along with the priest.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

Active participation does not mean ‘you do everything the priest does’. Yes, it is not the ideal to have multiple things happening at once, but it also should remind us that we are not the focus of the Mass- it is not important that we SAY the words aloud and sing with the priest, it is not important what we GET out of it, but what we GIVE when we pray with the priest, and it doesn’t matter really if we are physically saying the same words as he is, but that we are uniting ourselves in prayer with him and his intentions in order to honor God and truly sacrifice with Christ at the Mass.

There’s a quotation to that effect somewhere in the motu proprio 1962 missal, by Pope St Pius X and then a similar one from Benedict XVI.

What is going on at the altar is what we should be focused on. The music should direct us to that, not compete with it. When the priest is saying or singing his part of the mass, we should be attending to what he is doing. That is part of full, active, and conscious participation. The choir should sing the people’s part of the mass competently and reverently but it shouldn’t compete with what the priest is doing.

 

[PrayforMallory]

We all have to learn everything, even how to walk and talk. AND we all learn how to bicker too. As a convert, when you came into the church (or anyone for that matter) had to learn all about the Catholic Faith. It was a “simple time”. You had found the true faith and evidently loved it. But that wasn’t enough?

It is true that some people have to have visuals, and stimulation
to appreciate God or well, anything. And I am not saying this is wrong, it’s just that this is true. Others, can enjoy God on a mountaintop, in a tent, without any “visuals” to “up the spirit”

This is all about “emotions”, Where one person can break out in an all out cry over a sad movie, others just tear up. It is our nature to NEED different things. I can no more make that one person break out in an all out cry than I can make someone enjoy one mass over the other.

It is all “preference”, we Americans are used to getting the things we want, or fighting to have the things we want. We have never been an obedient people. (sometimes this is good and sometimes it isn’t). I, personally think,.that is the reason for all this controversary. We cannot be obedient enough to allow God to change what is not right. WE HAVE TO DO IT FOR HIM.

“Be still and KNOW that I am God” a very good verse to live by.

So that’s why I assist at the TLM? Because the modern liturgy isn’t “good enough” for my high-falutin tastes? No, to the contrary, I wanted to attend the Mass of the Saints.

As for being upset about changes, I’m only going in the direction it seems Pope Benedict is leading us in.

 

[Auntie_M]

So that’s why I assist at the TLM? Because the modern liturgy isn’t “good enough” for my high-falutin tastes? No, to the contrary, I wanted to attend the Mass of the Saints.

As for being upset about changes, I’m only going in the direction it seems Pope Benedict is leading us in.

I am not saying that the modern liturgy isn’t “good enough” for you at all. What I am saying is let God be God…

As for Pope Benedict leading us, GREAT. I understand he is leading us all to accept BOTH rites as equally important. I think he is trying very hard to “heal” the rupture that was the result of people not wanting to abide by a Pope’s decision. (Whether it was right, only God really knows)…So there again, Let God be God…IF it’s wrong, HE’LL correct it. (He really doesn’t need us to do it)

Now, shall we get back to the post at hand…“Impression of the Tridentine mass” I think we all have strayed a bit.

 

[HashemEchad]

Recently I attended an EF mass. I thought I would really like it because of growing up in the '50’s and learning to sing Gregorian chant at parish school. What disappointed me was that the music was like a performance. Only the choir sang (and I think chant is pretty easy to sing) and the song would go on and on while the priest continued on to another part of the mass. I felt like we weren’t praying with the priest like we do in the OF at my parish or like I remember doing. Is this common or was it more a matter of inexperience on the part of the choir? Does the Tridentine mass require that the congregation not sing? Also, in the 50’s we sang some hymns in English, don’t they do that anymore?

This parish has the EF at least once a month so I thought they would be used to it. The experience was disconcerting with the priest doing one thing, the choir another, and me trying to attend to the mass and being distracted by the music. Also, I liked being able to kneel when receiving communion (which I can’t do unless I have the altar rail for balance) but I missed the priest holding up the host and saying “body of Christ” and being able to respond “amen!”

If you really want to experience a Tridentine Latin Mass done the right way, you need to go to one sponsored by the SSPX or the FSSP. The regular RCC seems to have forgotten how to do it right, if comments here and elsewhere are any indication.

In the late 1970s I attended a few TLMs sponsored by the SSPX and since the hallmark of their movement seems to be “the TLM done right”, I guess they are true to their belief! Because in the early 1980s, I attended an indult TLM and it was a real let-down from what the SSPX Masses were like.

Another word of advice: try to aim for a High Mass rather than a Low Mass.

BTW Claire: the TLM you went to, is that the one at the church in Dover? Because I have a Catholic friend in Dover who regularly attends that one (or she used to anyway). She couldn’t stand seeing women show up in shorts in summer time, etc

 

[catcher5]

If you really want to experience a Tridentine Latin Mass done the right way, you need to go to one sponsored by the SSPX or the FSSP. The regular RCC seems to have forgotten how to do it right, if comments here and elsewhere are any indication.

How has the “regular RCC” forgotten how to “do it right”? It has to be pretty hard for any priest to do it wrong. Everything about the Tridentine Mass is done strictly by the book. Maybe you should check out a “regular” Mass before making that comment.

 

[LRThunder]

If you really want to experience a Tridentine Latin Mass done the right way, you need to go to one sponsored by the SSPX or the FSSP. The regular RCC seems to have forgotten how to do it right, if comments here and elsewhere are any indication.

In the late 1970s I attended a few TLMs sponsored by the SSPX and since the hallmark of their movement seems to be “the TLM done right”, I guess they are true to their belief! Because in the early 1980s, I attended an indult TLM and it was a real let-down from what the SSPX Masses were like.

Another word of advice: try to aim for a High Mass rather than a Low Mass.

BTW Claire: the TLM you went to, is that the one at the church in Dover? Because I have a Catholic friend in Dover who regularly attends that one (or she used to anyway). She couldn’t stand seeing women show up in shorts in summer time, etc

The FSSP is in communion with Rome, so they are part of the “regular Catholic Church.” The SSPX, on the other hand, aren’t.

 

[anamchrist]

For me, attending a Latin Mass wasn’t much different from going to the opera. You sit (kneel) there and watch the action, you have a vaque idea of what is going on, but it doesn’t really include you. It is pretty, but not something that you would do every day. Spiritually, I got more out of saying the rosary in the car.

 

[HashemEchad]

HashemEchad;3740157:

If you really want to experience a Tridentine Latin Mass done the right way, you need to go to one sponsored by the SSPX or the FSSP. The regular RCC seems to have forgotten how to do it right, if comments here and elsewhere are any indication.

How has the “regular RCC” forgotten how to “do it right”? It has to be pretty hard for any priest to do it wrong. Everything about the Tridentine Mass is done strictly by the book. Maybe you should check out a “regular” Mass before making that comment.

After 35-40 years of not having the TLM, I’d think by now even the older priests would have forgotten Latin and the correct pronunciation. And the younger, recently ordained ones probably never even learned it.

 

[PrayforMallory]

For me, attending a Latin Mass wasn’t much different from going to the opera. You sit (kneel) there and watch the action, you have a vaque idea of what is going on, but it doesn’t really include you. It is pretty, but not something that you would do every day. Spiritually, I got more out of saying the rosary in the car.

Just out of curiosity, did you follow a missal? Knowing what’s going on changes things for the better, imho.

Over time, you participate just as much as the OF, you just do a lot of it internally. You have to have the patience to learn the prayers, though.

If you do “do it every day,” it becomes as natural as anything.

 

[PrayforMallory]

What is going on at the altar is what we should be focused on. The music should direct us to that, not compete with it. When the priest is saying or singing his part of the mass, we should be attending to what he is doing. That is part of full, active, and conscious participation. The choir should sing the people’s part of the mass competently and reverently but it shouldn’t compete with what the priest is doing.

Maybe it was just this particular parish. It could be, however, that it was all so strange to you that it might take some getting used to.

The music, in my opinion, really complements the altar, in that it sets a mood in which you can better appreciate what the priest is doing.

The priest is a lot more autonomous in the EF, less of a “director”, more of an agent of transubstantiation. You can always pray your own prayers while he attends to his sacerdotal role.

Like I said earlier, try it several times before you come to a definitive conclusion. It can only help you in the long run.

 

[Auntie_M]

I have to laugh here a little bit as you reminded me of seeing a fellow worshiper trying to follow the Tridentine Mass yesterday using a Novus Ordo missallete. Yes, I can see that as a problem.

The one I was using was not a "Novus Ordo"missallette. It is STILL hard to follow. As you say, give it some time. Well, I hope everyone is able to do that. It would be very very upsetting if my loved one left an EF not knowing how to worship Christ and never made it to the next one (alive, that is) We are not promised tomorrow.

No I still prefer the erroneously named NO. As I think Benedict corrected…it is NOT a new mass, it is the same mass as the EF,
If anyone REALLY studied the two, you can see the MOST important parts are not that different.

 

[Auntie_M]

If you really want to experience a Tridentine Latin Mass done the right way, you need to go to one sponsored by the SSPX or the FSSP. The regular RCC seems to have forgotten how to do it right, if comments here and elsewhere are any indication.

In the late 1970s I attended a few TLMs sponsored by the SSPX and since the hallmark of their movement seems to be “the TLM done right”, I guess they are true to their belief! Because in the early 1980s, I attended an indult TLM and it was a real let-down from what the SSPX Masses were like.

Another word of advice: try to aim for a High Mass rather than a Low Mass.

BTW Claire: the TLM you went to, is that the one at the church in Dover? Because I have a Catholic friend in Dover who regularly attends that one (or she used to anyway). She couldn’t stand seeing women show up in shorts in summer time, etc

I guess it is preference. IF you want to be IN COMMUNION with Rome, you will stay away from the SSPX. (which has the markings of a serious cult. ) The SSPX has been studied and deduced to be a cult! Go to an FSSP, at least they ARE in COMMUNION with Rome.

I would never again go to an SSPX mass. I went with a friend for 4 or 5 times. I tried very hard to “learn”, but when the Priest got up bashing the Pope and “Preaching hate”. I left, never to return.
If I have to sit IN CHURCH and listen to hate preached, I will NEVER go. That is NOT what mass is about!!!

 

[I_Believe]

For me, attending a Latin Mass wasn’t much different from going to the opera. You sit (kneel) there and watch the action, you have a vaque idea of what is going on, but it doesn’t really include you. It is pretty, but not something that you would do every day. Spiritually, I got more out of saying the rosary in the car.

You ? Who is “you” ?

How many TLM’s have you “attended” ? One ?
First of all, one does not attend a TLM, they assist it. They pray the Mass. Those who prefer it , are there for a reason.

“You, and Me” is the problem. The Mass isn’t about “You and Me”.

Not knowing what is “going on” during a TLM is simply lack of effort and/or Faith. Missals really don’t cost that much

 

[HashemEchad]

I guess it is preference. IF you want to be IN COMMUNION with Rome, you will stay away from the SSPX. (which has the markings of a serious cult. ) The SSPX has been studied and deduced to be a cult! Go to an FSSP, at least they ARE in COMMUNION with Rome.

I would never again go to an SSPX mass. I went with a friend for 4 or 5 times. I tried very hard to “learn”, but when the Priest got up bashing the Pope and “Preaching hate”. I left, never to return.
If I have to sit IN CHURCH and listen to hate preached, I will NEVER go. That is NOT what mass is about!!!

Well, the whole “in communion with Rome” thing doesn’t matter to me, since I’m not Christian.

I attended the Masses partly because half my family is Catholic and they left the RCC because of V2…so it made me curious to see what it was they were upset about losing.

Back then (late 1970s), the only way you could see a TLM was to go to SSPX or one of the other splinter groups…because the standard RCC had “banned” the Mass (that still cracks me up, to think they had the nerve to “ban” a Mass which had been the Latin Rite Mass for centuries, the Mass most of the Catholic saints attended.)

I have to hand it to the SSPX , SSPV,ORCM and whatever other splinter groups existed then…they kept that Mass alive until a day when the regular RCC would return to its senses (hopefully, anyway). I don’t have prejudice against them because I’m not Catholic or Christian, I’m looking at things strictly from an historical, aethestical point of view.

 

[Auntie_M]

Well, the whole “in communion with Rome” thing doesn’t matter to me, since I’m not Christian.

I attended the Masses partly because half my family is Catholic and they left the RCC because of V2…so it made me curious to see what it was they were upset about losing.

Back then (late 1970s), the only way you could see a TLM was to go to SSPX or one of the other splinter groups…because the standard RCC had “banned” the Mass (that still cracks me up, to think they had the nerve to “ban” a Mass which had been the Latin Rite Mass for centuries, the Mass most of the Catholic saints attended.)

I have to hand it to the SSPX , SSPV,ORCM and whatever other splinter groups existed then…they kept that Mass alive until a day when the regular RCC would return to its senses (hopefully, anyway). I don’t have prejudice against them because I’m not Catholic or Christian, I’m looking at things strictly from an historical, aethestical point of view.

Honey, if you’re looking at this whole thing historically, then You would KNOW that the mass had never been BANNED! Evidently you need to read up on your history.( that way you wont get so “Cracked” up about it)

But you did size them up very well…SPLINTER groups. The way you talk about “returning to its senses” sounds VERY much like you are prejudiced.

And as far as the “mass of the saints”, My dear that mass was also attended by alot of “plain ole people” too, and some were not so saintly.

 

[HashemEchad]

Honey, if you’re looking at this whole thing historically, then You would KNOW that the mass had never been BANNED! Evidently you need to read up on your history.( that way you wont get so “Cracked” up about it)

But you did size them up very well…SPLINTER groups. The way you talk about “returning to its senses” sounds VERY much like you are prejudiced.

And as far as the “mass of the saints”, My dear that mass was also attended by alot of “plain ole people” too, and some were not so saintly.

The TLM was not banned in regular RCC parishes after the novus ordo was introduced? Now that IS news to me.

Because back then, I had called around at various local parishes to ask where I could attend one, and was told that “it is no longer used”.

I even went so far as to contact the Cardinal’s office, and they told me the same thing, and added, “It is not permitted anymore”.

That was how I finally found the SSPX Masses.