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FCEGM
Guest
A most important article:
calcatholic.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?id=2782389d-da2c-40ce-8d7f-071d2345291c
calcatholic.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?id=2782389d-da2c-40ce-8d7f-071d2345291c
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JimG
Guest
The article was quite enlightening. It demonstrates by means of personal recollection that the dissent begun in 1968 was not spontaneous. It rather was pre-meditated, angry, contemptuous, emotionally violent, and threatening of others. What a sad story.
Sad to say, many of those who rebelled in various ways in the 1968 culture, remain as firmly, and angrily, convinced of their own ideologies in their declining years, as they were when young rebels. The culture has passed them by.
As to the effects of the dissent from Humanae Vitae, every adverse consequence warned against in the encyclical has come to pass with a vengeance. One nearly has to have lived through it to be fully conscious of the effects, by comparing the secular and sacred cultures, both Catholic and non-Catholic, then, to the devolution which has come to pass in the last 40 years.
But there is hope. The angry and contemptuous dissenters of 1968 are becoming irrevelant, and the younger generation, at least of Catholics, is more attuned to unvarying truth.
One remarkably poignant passage in the article struck me:
“Not one of my professional acquaintances anticipated the crisis of trust which was just around the corner in the relations between men and women.” That pretty much sums up what has happened to relationships between the sexes in the past 40 years.
Sad to say, many of those who rebelled in various ways in the 1968 culture, remain as firmly, and angrily, convinced of their own ideologies in their declining years, as they were when young rebels. The culture has passed them by.
As to the effects of the dissent from Humanae Vitae, every adverse consequence warned against in the encyclical has come to pass with a vengeance. One nearly has to have lived through it to be fully conscious of the effects, by comparing the secular and sacred cultures, both Catholic and non-Catholic, then, to the devolution which has come to pass in the last 40 years.
But there is hope. The angry and contemptuous dissenters of 1968 are becoming irrevelant, and the younger generation, at least of Catholics, is more attuned to unvarying truth.
One remarkably poignant passage in the article struck me:
“Not one of my professional acquaintances anticipated the crisis of trust which was just around the corner in the relations between men and women.” That pretty much sums up what has happened to relationships between the sexes in the past 40 years.
K
KathleenElsie
Guest
Many Catholics never found out the true teaching on birth control till it was toooo late. These men and women have to live with the fact that they were lied to by their clergy.
There is an old saying that the road to hell is paved with the bones of Bishops and Cardinals. God forgives those that were told wrongly. I pray God will forgive those that deceived others.
There is an old saying that the road to hell is paved with the bones of Bishops and Cardinals. God forgives those that were told wrongly. I pray God will forgive those that deceived others.
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Teelynn
Guest
Yes, Jim, there is HOPE…the tide is turning. The wave of deception that swept the Church unfortunately is still rippling. But the new and young priests coming out of seminary are much more orthodox. It will take a while but the light at the end of the tunnel is visible…“and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it”. I believe this incident was the dawn of “relative theology” in the Church. It brought all kinds of erroneous ideology to the forefront, and we heard it from the pulpit. The “I’m ok, your ok” sermons. The years of “general confessions” only. (there were parishes that didn’t even SCHEDULE individual confessions.) Everything was “ok” from artificial birth control, to premarital living arrangements, to gay sex…“sin is expected as it is all part and parcell of being human, we will all be forgiven at the end anyway, what’s the big deal, get used to it!” (and as I said…there is still the rippling effect) I thank God every day that the dissenting generation of priests is starting to fade. And they are in my prayers daily. And yes, Kathleen, I was one that was led by their heretical ideology for many years…until God in His mercy poured out His grace.
“For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.”
“For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.”
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4HisChurch
Guest
Oh, my God. I grew up in the Baltimore Archdiocese. I lived there in 1968. I made my first Holy Communion there in 1968.
Now I know why nearly everyone in my rather large extended family has lost the faith to once extent or the other.
The Church (there, at that time) was poisoned from the inside.
I am in shock.
May God have mercy on all our souls.
J
JimG
Guest
To be fair, I have to point out that there is a generation of (now older) priests who came of age in those years, did not dissent, and remained faithful under generally horrible conditions. A great many of their contemporaries simply deserted the priesthood while others became fixtures of dissent. They came out of seminary just before the storm hit, and it is to their credit that they remained faithful. The ones who survived that storm are like a faithful remnant.
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Teelynn
Guest
You are correct in this as I know several priests of that age that have been faithful to the teachings of the Church. Sometimes it is a pleasant surprise as there seems to be so many dissenters. Just out of curiosity, though, I wonder what the percentage might be? Would be interesting to find out…I know many also that are and remain dissenting priests. Just my thoughts.
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Teelynn
Guest
The Divine Mercy Chaplet fits well here.
Our Lord gave this to St. Faustina as of course, He knew what was coming.
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Harmony1988
Guest
I only wish that either John XXIII or Pius XII had promulgated this encyclical instead of Paul VI, there is nothing wrong with Paul VI’s theology or philosophy, but he was more sensitive and indecisive when it came to some issues and therefore the liberal theologians and the dissidents thought they could openly harass his teaching.
The earlier popes would have immediately silenced most of these dissidents, it is true though, the church was poisoned from the inside, despite the teaching of the church, clergy advised otherwise. God Bless Paul VI for sticking to his guns. Theologians have forgotten where the final say comes on these matters.
But as the article says, it was to be, it was the temptation of the 1960’s for the church, we failed
The earlier popes would have immediately silenced most of these dissidents, it is true though, the church was poisoned from the inside, despite the teaching of the church, clergy advised otherwise. God Bless Paul VI for sticking to his guns. Theologians have forgotten where the final say comes on these matters.
But as the article says, it was to be, it was the temptation of the 1960’s for the church, we failed
K
KathleenElsie
Guest
Many were led into the culture of death by the very people that were to be expected to protect them. I pray that those that pushed this evil have had their hearts returned to the Magesterium and helped to comfort those they greatly wronged.
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rwoehmke
Guest
An interesting article. While I knew at the time that some priests and bishops disagreed with the Encyclical, I was never privy to the machinations behind the public protests. I would say not much in keeping with their responsibility.
Perhaps a few personal memories and observations would also add to visualization of the situation. The pill was relatively a new thing. It wasn’t a barrier method or withdrawal which were the ABC methods available at the time. It was certainly an open question and I think that was one reason why John XXIII set up the commission which actually included some married lay people. The Commission was leaning in the direction of some sort of approval, maybe the pill only, when Paul VI decided to add some additional members from the clergy; a move which some would, of course, see as a manipulation…
I think that many Catholics, priests, some bishops, and laity were convinced that the Pope was going to follow the commission’s recommendation. Married Catholics, I suspect, had already “jumped the gun” and had started using the pill in fairly large numbers. It was the high dose version that completely suppressed ovulation and no one had learned about the dangerous side effects at that point. They liked it, I am sure.
Then surprise! They felt like Paul VI had pulled the rug out from under them. Not surprising, a rebellion arose and many were ready to follow dissident priests and bishops. Another point was that NFP was nowhere near as reliable and easy to use at that time and many were still using the old calander rhytmn method.
Fortunately my wife and I were wanting to get with child at the time so we were mostly just on-lookers.
Paul VI turned out to be quite prophetic as to what the end result of the contraceptive mind-set would be. There is an element in the result, however, that I think was partially due to a new attitude developing in the minds of some of the disappointed laity and that was if “The Church” was so dead wrong on ABC, they couldn’t be depended on when it came to other teachings about the sexual facility; like adultery, co-habitation, sexual activity by the engaged, etc. In other words the attitude that “what can celibate dried up old men tell us about sexual relations?” took hold of many.
Now to top it all off, one of the Vatican officials stated that the Encyclical was not infallible. You all know that in some minds that automatically registers as not true or correct. John Paul II’s document about women being ordained was also not infallible, but it contained infallible material from the past. This was not pointed out to the Church after HV issued. Add to all this the false sense that Vatican II changed everything and the strong feelings of sexual desire in the younger marrieds and we have the ingredients for a hellish stew from which our Church has not yet recovered. It is no wonder to me that fully ten percent of the U.S. population are “ex-Catholics.” It’s a wonder that the number is not even higher.
Perhaps a few personal memories and observations would also add to visualization of the situation. The pill was relatively a new thing. It wasn’t a barrier method or withdrawal which were the ABC methods available at the time. It was certainly an open question and I think that was one reason why John XXIII set up the commission which actually included some married lay people. The Commission was leaning in the direction of some sort of approval, maybe the pill only, when Paul VI decided to add some additional members from the clergy; a move which some would, of course, see as a manipulation…
I think that many Catholics, priests, some bishops, and laity were convinced that the Pope was going to follow the commission’s recommendation. Married Catholics, I suspect, had already “jumped the gun” and had started using the pill in fairly large numbers. It was the high dose version that completely suppressed ovulation and no one had learned about the dangerous side effects at that point. They liked it, I am sure.
Then surprise! They felt like Paul VI had pulled the rug out from under them. Not surprising, a rebellion arose and many were ready to follow dissident priests and bishops. Another point was that NFP was nowhere near as reliable and easy to use at that time and many were still using the old calander rhytmn method.
Fortunately my wife and I were wanting to get with child at the time so we were mostly just on-lookers.
Paul VI turned out to be quite prophetic as to what the end result of the contraceptive mind-set would be. There is an element in the result, however, that I think was partially due to a new attitude developing in the minds of some of the disappointed laity and that was if “The Church” was so dead wrong on ABC, they couldn’t be depended on when it came to other teachings about the sexual facility; like adultery, co-habitation, sexual activity by the engaged, etc. In other words the attitude that “what can celibate dried up old men tell us about sexual relations?” took hold of many.
Now to top it all off, one of the Vatican officials stated that the Encyclical was not infallible. You all know that in some minds that automatically registers as not true or correct. John Paul II’s document about women being ordained was also not infallible, but it contained infallible material from the past. This was not pointed out to the Church after HV issued. Add to all this the false sense that Vatican II changed everything and the strong feelings of sexual desire in the younger marrieds and we have the ingredients for a hellish stew from which our Church has not yet recovered. It is no wonder to me that fully ten percent of the U.S. population are “ex-Catholics.” It’s a wonder that the number is not even higher.
J
JimG
Guest
Yes. Paul VI did not seem to have a strong personality or an authoritarian style. Catholic scientists and some theologians had already been pushing for a liberalization of the Church’s constant teaching against contraception. One of the developers of the pill was pushing the notion that the pill was not “artificial” contraception because it ‘regulated’ the natural fertility cycle.
I have been increasingly convinced that the Holy Spirit was at work in preserving this teaching from the enormous pressures to change it at the time. Paul VI was not strong enough to have done it on his own.
Popes have many advisors and many experts; they do not determine doctrine, and the world had reached the expectation that Paul VI would cave in and would change doctrine. But his only job as chief pastor is to preserve and hand on the doctrine that has been handed down to him. Sometimes that’s not easy. That he was able to do so in the face of enormous pressure I can only attribute to the workings of the Holy Spirit through the promise first given to Peter.
The fact that Paul VI’s warnings about the effects of contraception have been more than fully borne out cannot be attributed to just his own foresight. Had he been able to look ahead 40 years to the current situation, his warnings would have been much stronger. When I read them over today, they seem rather mild compared to what has actually happened.
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4HisChurch
Guest
Exactly. Having grown up in the Baltimore Archdiocese, at that very time, this really opens my eyes to many, many things that went on as far as religious education (or sad lack thereof) that my generation went through. Suddenly it all makes horrifying sense.The Divine Mercy Chaplet fits well here.
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Teelynn
Guest
Uh huh, getting a little background of what went down, you really start to put 2 and 2 together. I have read other articles (and books actually) that give some details, and that’s when I started to see the light…or should I say DARK
I went to our Adoration today, and noticed that on the altar was a beautiful portrait of The Divine Mercy that Jesus gave to St. Faustina. It was obvious that it had been placed on the altar specifically for Adoration. He clearly gave this to us as a help in the coming years of decline (in both the Church and in Society in general) In fact I think He made mention of this to St. Faustina that we would be needing this devotion in the years ahead.
“For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.”
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4HisChurch
Guest
I’m going to have to get back to reading St. Faustina’s Diary in light of this.Uh huh, getting a little background of what went down, you really start to put 2 and 2 together. I have read other articles (and books actually) that give some details, and that’s when I started to see the light…or should I say DARK
I went to our Adoration today, and noticed that on the altar was a beautiful portrait of The Divine Mercy that Jesus gave to St. Faustina. It was obvious that it had been placed on the altar specifically for Adoration. He clearly gave this to us as a help in the coming years of decline (in both the Church and in Society in general) In fact I think He made mention of this to St. Faustina that we would be needing this devotion in the years ahead.
“For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.”
The parish I grew up in (in Baltimore) was rampant with abusive priests (as it later came to light). The whole decade, perhaps 2, was a very, very difficult time to grow up in (at least in that area.)
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Teelynn
Guest
I think it rippled throughout the whole Catholic Church in this country. Being in the Chicago area, we had (and still to some extent have) our problems. You are Blessed (as I) to have had the grace of God to see the truth. I truly think God has graced many of us that were originally fed false doctrine to the light of His truth through the Holy Spirit. I know in my situation, truly God intervened directly. I don’t think it an exageration to say that it was Divine Intervention. If you look at some of the direction we were given, it would be fair to say that hundreds of thousands of people were kind of “led to slaughter”…so to speak. The tide is turning though. Our mighty God has sent the Holy Spirit in a very big way and opened a lot of eyes, hearts and minds to the truth. God is all merciful. (that’s the upside:thumbsup: )
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Mimi
Guest
I was in college in the early '70’s, and experimented with what I thought was the “free” lifestyle. Never heard proper explanation of Church teaching of HV; marriage prep was not informative either.
Fast forward: I’ve repented! Hallelujah! I’m sure the sacrament of marriage (and all the rest, too) and having to raise kids had a lot to do with it.
I am heartened by the info in 2 books: The Tide is Turning Toward Catholicism - Hartline, and The New Faithful; Why Young Adults Are Embracing Christian Orthodoxy by Colleen Carroll (now Carroll Campbell).
I am going to try to get some evangelization effort started in our parish as well as adult catechism. It’s an open mission field, for sure! Plus, we have a larger Spanish speaking population which is sometimes pulled into ideologies (political) and non-Catholic groups bc they don’t know how to defend the faith.
God bless,
Mimi
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edwest2
Guest
This happened across the entire country in 1968. Robert Kennedy dead, the Reverend Martin Luther King Jr., dead. The Hippies and radicals, spotlighted by the media, yelled “Down with the Establishment! Off (kill) the Pigs (police)! Free Love! (sex with anyone), Don’t trust anyone over 30 (mom, dad, priests, nuns).”
Radical underground newspapers appeared that promoted anarchy, perverse acts and general disrespect for authority. Underground comic books appeared that promoted perverse sexuality and drug induced visuals. The Catholic Legion of Decency ended in 1973 and abortion began. The promoters of abortion rights said that it was the most difficult decision a woman could make but it was between her and her God. Then God gradually faded from view. The Pill was encouraged as liberating women and making them free.
We were lied to. Out of our sincere compassion and concern for the stranger and those who, we were told, would have no choice but back alley abortions, we fell for lies and deceptive words. We still had enough respect for authority and the media to believe in them, but we were wrong to do so at that time.
Then illegal drugs really infiltrated the culture. In the 1970s, so-called adult bookstores appeared everywhere but they were not just selling partial nudity, but graphic prostitution. By the end of 1970s, radical, communist feminists had convinced women and men to fear each other, to become strangers to each other.
By the 1980s, so-called No Fault Divorce made it just too easy to give up on your marriage.
So by the 90s, the Christian world looked pretty much like the secular world.
The Holy Spirit of God has not left us. There are still those who endured from that time till today. There are some who were diverted from the straight and narrow path, but God intervened. He pulled them back. “By their fruit you shall know them.”
Return to the Church, those of you who look back and wonder what happened. Living to be more Christ like begins with each one of us.
God bless,
Ed
Radical underground newspapers appeared that promoted anarchy, perverse acts and general disrespect for authority. Underground comic books appeared that promoted perverse sexuality and drug induced visuals. The Catholic Legion of Decency ended in 1973 and abortion began. The promoters of abortion rights said that it was the most difficult decision a woman could make but it was between her and her God. Then God gradually faded from view. The Pill was encouraged as liberating women and making them free.
We were lied to. Out of our sincere compassion and concern for the stranger and those who, we were told, would have no choice but back alley abortions, we fell for lies and deceptive words. We still had enough respect for authority and the media to believe in them, but we were wrong to do so at that time.
Then illegal drugs really infiltrated the culture. In the 1970s, so-called adult bookstores appeared everywhere but they were not just selling partial nudity, but graphic prostitution. By the end of 1970s, radical, communist feminists had convinced women and men to fear each other, to become strangers to each other.
By the 1980s, so-called No Fault Divorce made it just too easy to give up on your marriage.
So by the 90s, the Christian world looked pretty much like the secular world.
The Holy Spirit of God has not left us. There are still those who endured from that time till today. There are some who were diverted from the straight and narrow path, but God intervened. He pulled them back. “By their fruit you shall know them.”
Return to the Church, those of you who look back and wonder what happened. Living to be more Christ like begins with each one of us.
God bless,
Ed
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Mimi
Guest
Wow, Ed! That was magnificent!
Yes, the '70’s was a time of cultural upheaval. Many in their 20’s had friends or siblings that died in 'Nam. Mine was aboard a ship, so was pretty safe. He came home jaded, though.
All we can do is go on, pray for those who dissent, and educate those who are ignorant of Church teaching.
Theology of the Body will help. I think the materials for Teens are excellent! Would that it could be made mandatory to have to take a certain number of hrs in it in order to get Confirmed!
God bless all,
Mimi
Yes, the '70’s was a time of cultural upheaval. Many in their 20’s had friends or siblings that died in 'Nam. Mine was aboard a ship, so was pretty safe. He came home jaded, though.
All we can do is go on, pray for those who dissent, and educate those who are ignorant of Church teaching.
Theology of the Body will help. I think the materials for Teens are excellent! Would that it could be made mandatory to have to take a certain number of hrs in it in order to get Confirmed!
God bless all,
Mimi
T
Teelynn
Guest
I agree with Mimi, your post Ed, was excellent!
The famous “catch phrase” of the day, in those years was: “Can’t put God in a box…He’s bigger than that”
which of course led into “I’m OK your OK” mentality, “nothing is black and white, lots of grey areas, even in our spiritual walk”, which led to…“nothing is really a sin, when you consider circumstances”, which led to “No such thing as Hell really”, and on and on and on…pretty soon nothing is really “wrong.” Therefore, why schedule confessions? General is fine. (besides that “not enough priests to hear them individually anyway”) And then “EVERYONE can go to communion, and SHOULD!” There are still those that are buying into this relativism.
Lord Jesus save us! Have mercy on us, and continue to shine the light of your truth for all to see, and praise and thanksgiving for eyes already opened!!
The famous “catch phrase” of the day, in those years was: “Can’t put God in a box…He’s bigger than that”
which of course led into “I’m OK your OK” mentality, “nothing is black and white, lots of grey areas, even in our spiritual walk”, which led to…“nothing is really a sin, when you consider circumstances”, which led to “No such thing as Hell really”, and on and on and on…pretty soon nothing is really “wrong.” Therefore, why schedule confessions? General is fine. (besides that “not enough priests to hear them individually anyway”) And then “EVERYONE can go to communion, and SHOULD!” There are still those that are buying into this relativism.Lord Jesus save us! Have mercy on us, and continue to shine the light of your truth for all to see, and praise and thanksgiving for eyes already opened!!
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