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JimG
Guest
Trouble is, a lot of those radicals mentioned by Ed have now become the “establishment”–in academia, in the media, in political parties, and in religious circles.
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stbruno
Guest
Yes, they are, but like Jesus who was radical of his times, the tide can turn…through prayer & adoration as well as the rest of us living us to our baptismal promises. God is in charge!
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edwest2
Guest
Yes, the radicals themselves and their children, have infiltrated academia and the media. The “if it feels good, do it” idea replaced the appropriate call to knowledge of God, self-discipline, self- control and self-respect. Those ideas were replaced by the Hippie, “let it all hang out, man!” We are all OK.
Recently, I got this reply on another forum that I think is representative of what some people want today: “We don’t want to feel guilty or ashamed or sinful anymore.”
They no longer want to endure sound doctrine. And another thing that some people began to believe is that all religions are somehow equivalent. They are not. That was another version of Whatever you believe and whatever I believe is OK. It cannot all be OK. The foundational person of Christianity is Jesus Christ, and God told us that you shall have no other gods before me.
Each one of us has the ability to ask God for more of His grace and to know Him better so that we will become perfected in our walk with Him in this life. “I will be with you always, even unto the end of the world.”
Live as a Christian 7 days a week.
God bless,
Ed
Recently, I got this reply on another forum that I think is representative of what some people want today: “We don’t want to feel guilty or ashamed or sinful anymore.”
They no longer want to endure sound doctrine. And another thing that some people began to believe is that all religions are somehow equivalent. They are not. That was another version of Whatever you believe and whatever I believe is OK. It cannot all be OK. The foundational person of Christianity is Jesus Christ, and God told us that you shall have no other gods before me.
Each one of us has the ability to ask God for more of His grace and to know Him better so that we will become perfected in our walk with Him in this life. “I will be with you always, even unto the end of the world.”
Live as a Christian 7 days a week.
God bless,
Ed
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Teelynn
Guest
This is sooo where they’re at! LOL…almost got a chuckle out of this.
I have even run into a few priests that feel EXACTLY this way…and hold other faiths with equal validity…don’t get me wrong…protestant denominations are still children of God and still our brothers and sisters…but they don’t have the*** fullness*** of truth…THE WHOLE ENCHALADA as I like to say.
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Jennifer_G
Guest
I guess I’m still kind of confused about the article. I remember when learning about Catholicism, I read that there were divisions (I guess that would be one of them). I was born in 1977, so that was just before my time. My Polish side of the family are all from Baltimore, and except for my youngest uncle and his family, I’m not sure if the rest even regularly attend church anymore - I’m told they don’t (and yet, I see them, when they do go, go up for Holy Communion, even if they’re in some potentially mortal state of sin.). Some even have forgotten what the word “Mass” means, even when they’ve been to one.
(Some have even left because of a comment one priest said, or out of convenience because another church was closer)I’ve often wondered just what happened between 1958-1968 that caused everything to break.
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Teelynn
Guest
Another thought…(brain working overtime again
) Regardless of whether people in the Church are relative ideologists or more orthodox we are (IMHO) ALL in a constant state of conversion…will be until we breath our last. I just think it helps to be traveling with the right road map!
) Regardless of whether people in the Church are relative ideologists or more orthodox we are (IMHO) ALL in a constant state of conversion…will be until we breath our last. I just think it helps to be traveling with the right road map!
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JimG
Guest
It was a time of change both in the Church and in society at large.
The Second Vatican Council took place between 1962 and 1965. You can’t blame Vatican II for the craziness which followed; anyone who reads its actual documents can see that they are pretty tame.
But the Catholic media, the secular media, the radical political agenda among many (then) youth, the beginning sexual revolution, caused a lot of people to think that the Church would actually change doctrine. Of course it wouldn’t.
Then Humanae Vitae came out in 1968, reaffirming the Church’s traditional position on contraception, and there was open rebellion in the Church from many university theology staff, Catholic periodicals, and others.
Had the Church actually made the changes that many were hoping for, we’d be in the same position as the Anglicans are today.
But there were a lot of defections along the way. In the late 60’s early '70’s many young priests suddenly discovered a hidden vocation to marriage, and left the priesthood. The clergy was decimated and demoralized. Catholic catechesis began to go down the tubes, resulting in a virtually uncatechized generation, the equivalent of Jay Leno’s "Jay-walkers when it came to Catholic knowledge.
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allhers
Guest
For those who may not have yet read it:
HUMANAE VITAE
By Paul VI
vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html
Thank God for the faithful Priests and lets pray for all of them daily.
HUMANAE VITAE
By Paul VI
vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html
Thank God for the faithful Priests and lets pray for all of them daily.
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chewchoo
Guest
i have almost finished the book, AA-1025: the memoirs of an anti-apostle. everything in the article and everything being discussed in this thread has been presented as an option for bringing down the catholic church and “killing God” in AA-1025. in other threads in this forum, posters have said that this book can’t possibly be true. but look at the mess we’re in today. the God-haters are very patient. they slowly infiltrated the church and made sure their ideas became common place. they became professors at the seminaries and tainted a whole generation of priests if not more. and so those catholics who were casual in their faith bought the lies, hook, line and sinker. 
and just on friday, al kresta had a priest on his program talking about the new and correct translation of the mass in english that will be completed in the next couple years. the current english translation is classic of the “i’m okay, you’re okay” attitude. so the problems are slowly being cleaned up, but it took us almost 80 years to get this bad (the start of the infiltration) so it will take just as long, if not longer, to get us out of this mess.
and just on friday, al kresta had a priest on his program talking about the new and correct translation of the mass in english that will be completed in the next couple years. the current english translation is classic of the “i’m okay, you’re okay” attitude. so the problems are slowly being cleaned up, but it took us almost 80 years to get this bad (the start of the infiltration) so it will take just as long, if not longer, to get us out of this mess.
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edwest2
Guest
It may not take that long. The infiltration of Catholic colleges and universities is being turned around. Those leaders who are not Catholic will be replaced by those who are. That was a big concern when Pope Benedict announced he would be visiting the USA. The reason is simple: How can a Catholic University give Catholic students something it does not have to give?
God bless,
Ed
God bless,
Ed
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Beautiful
Guest
This is so true and important.Regardless of whether people in the Church are relative ideologists or more orthodox we are (IMHO) ALL in a constant state of conversion…will be until we breath our last. I just think it helps to be traveling with the right road map!
When I realized that I had traveled down a dead end road I wanted to blame someone - priests! Ultimately I had only myself to blame. Sure - in the 70’s and 80’s I didn’t understand Humanae Vitae but I knew of it and what it simply stated! Don’t do birth control! I rode the crest of evil during the 60’s 70’s and 80’s. It was only in the 90’s that I realized I should have simply obeyed that basic premise behind Humanae Vitae even though I didn’t understand why I should obey. Sure - there wasn’t single person around to spoon feed me ( priests preaching from the pulpit) the understanding of Humanae Vitae. I still should have obeyed.
Today I am a little wiser. I’m just sorry I didn’t simply obey to begin with. Hopefully I’ve learned an important lesson.
Obey - even if I don’t fully grasp what the Church asks me to do.
Yes - we are all on the journey of conversion. No one of us is better than the next.
Pope JPII’s Theology of the Body is the best tool to date to better understand Humanae Vitae.
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Teelynn
Guest
May God Bless His Church with This Holy Father for many, many years to come.i have almost finished the book, AA-1025: the memoirs of an anti-apostle. everything in the article and everything being discussed in this thread has been presented as an option for bringing down the catholic church and “killing God” in AA-1025. in other threads in this forum, posters have said that this book can’t possibly be true. but look at the mess we’re in today. the God-haters are very patient. they slowly infiltrated the church and made sure their ideas became common place. they became professors at the seminaries and tainted a whole generation of priests if not more. and so those catholics who were casual in their faith bought the lies, hook, line and sinker.
and just on friday, al kresta had a priest on his program talking about the new and correct translation of the mass in english that will be completed in the next couple years. the current english translation is classic of the “i’m okay, you’re okay” attitude. so the problems are slowly being cleaned up, but it took us almost 80 years to get this bad (the start of the infiltration) so it will take just as long, if not longer, to get us out of this mess.
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Teelynn
Guest
Just a thought…one of our past Popes (I believe it was Pius X11) said…“the smoke of satan has entered the sanctuary” was he referring to this future evil from the inside?
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manualman
Guest
But the article implies more. The problem didn’t start in 1968. In 1968 there were already large numbers of poorly formed priests easily susceptible to this coercion and/or persuasion. The problem obviously existed far enough back to extend to the seminary training and formation of these priests.
Priestly sexual abuse statistics also show that many of the worst abuser priests were ordained well before HV came out. 1968 just happens to be when the radioactve dissenters reached critical mass…
(no catholic pun intended!)
Priestly sexual abuse statistics also show that many of the worst abuser priests were ordained well before HV came out. 1968 just happens to be when the radioactve dissenters reached critical mass…
(no catholic pun intended!)
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Teelynn
Guest
I am sure you are correct in this…anyone know just when and how this started? Did this have anything to do with the Masons or am I all wet?
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manualman
Guest
I’m not sure there is a handy scapegoat.
I think the reason may be the fact that we were overdue for a Vatican II. (the REAL one, not the phony “spirit”)
Far too many catholics were faithful to a cultural tradition instead of the Sacred Tradition. The ‘cultural tradition’ just isn’t enough to sustain a priest through the rigors of his vocation. The ones like that who were ordained were easy picking for the tempter-in-chief.
I think the reason may be the fact that we were overdue for a Vatican II. (the REAL one, not the phony “spirit”)
Far too many catholics were faithful to a cultural tradition instead of the Sacred Tradition. The ‘cultural tradition’ just isn’t enough to sustain a priest through the rigors of his vocation. The ones like that who were ordained were easy picking for the tempter-in-chief.
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Teelynn
Guest
I should go back and read “Goodbye Good Men” again. It had a lot of interesting data on “the fall” especially in regard to the seminaries.
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chewchoo
Guest
like i posted earlier, there is this book - AA-1025: memoirs of an anti-apostle, which presents one possible cause of the problem. athiestic communists infiltrated the church in the 1920’s.
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JimG
Guest
Well, I don’t know about that. It seems to me that the Church was always quite anti-Communist. One of the Popes, Pius XI, in 1931 made the statement that “no one can at the same time be a sincere Catholic and a true socialist.”
However, in the early part of the 20th century there was a fascination with communism and socialism within many levels of society. Many U.S. intellectuals were making trips to Soviet Russia and giving praise to Stalin’s rule. What were they thinking? I have no idea why so many became so infatuated with such an evil system.
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KathleenElsie
Guest
Rebellion plain and simple. What was old was no longer desirable.
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