"In a better place now" - what did Catholics traditionally say?

Status
Not open for further replies.
HomeschoolDad

HomeschoolDad

Moderator
Staff member
Whenever someone dies, regardless of their religion or lifestyle, the thing everybody says nowadays is “they’re in a better place now”. No consideration whatsoever is given to the fact that a notorious sinner may not have saved their soul, and purgatory is barely mentioned — there is a notional idea that it exists, and faithful Catholics will have Masses said, but the general consensus is that if someone does go to purgatory, it couldn’t amount to much. People speak as though the departed are already in heaven.

Have Catholics ever spoken or thought otherwise? I do know that at the funeral of one traditional Catholic man whose family I knew, in the priest’s graveside rites, he said something about “just punishments”, and his widowed wife howled with such agony of soul, that it was as though her cries would rip the overcast sky apart. I said to myself at the time “that is the most Catholic thing I have ever heard or seen in my life”.

I suppose we could say that, whether they are in heaven, purgatory, or (God forbid) hell, they are indeed “in a better place”… because, after all, they see God for what He truly is, and they can’t sin anymore.
 
Maybe I’m mistaken but I thought saying something like “We turn John D. over to the loving hands of God” or “We now entrust Jane D. to our Lord” or something to that effect would be said during a service. Maybe that’s not completely a Catholic thing either though.
 
Last edited:
HomeschoolDad said:
Whenever someone dies, regardless of their religion or lifestyle, the thing everybody says nowadays is “they’re in a better place now”. No consideration whatsoever is given to the fact that a notorious sinner may not have saved their soul, and purgatory is barely mentioned — there is a notional idea that it exists, and faithful Catholics will have Masses said, but the general consensus is that if someone does go to purgatory, it couldn’t amount to much. People speak as though the departed are already in heaven.
Click to expand...
‘May he/she rest in peace’ has always been the universal comfort phrase. We were never encouraged to speculate on the destination of a dead persons soul beyond that.

One anecdote from an old family member who is a Priest was that after WW1 and even WW2 because there was no understanding of PTSD, many veterans committed suicide. But that was kept under wraps so that these poor brave men could be buried by the Church. It would have been horrendous to have it implied that your loved one was in hell or due dreadful punishment because of the mortal sin of suicide. There has always been pastoral kindness in the Church unbeknowns to the general public. It’s a modern phenomenon to relish condemning other peoples souls.
 
I will like to think of it as hope for salvation, we do not know for sure but that is why I value prayers for the dead. In the protestant culture, I will largely agree with you that they believe the departed are already in heaven. In fact, they do go a step further to say they are assured salvation while on earth. I think in catholic view, it’s more centred on the hope rather than the confirmation. And I don’t think they will condemn the dead to purgatory/hell, because only God can judge.
 
Last edited:
Never, ever, never, under no circumstances tell a child who has lost a parent or sibling “they are in a better place now”. It is very possibly one of the most heartless and cruel things to say to a grieving child.
 
It’s difficult, lots of hugs, lots of compassion, but don’t tell them something that can possibly hurt them more. Their internal thoughts when told that range from “what was wrong here?”, Or " and now this place is so much worse" , or “he would rather be with us than some “better” place”. It often strokes the anger in a child. Seen this first hand and a priest told me it us a very common reaction.
 
We are exactly where we are meant to be in the eyes of God.
 
Last edited:
When my mom died, my siblings and I were constantly told that she’s in a better place and that she’s definitely in heaven.

Obviously we know that we can’t be sure…but at the same time we were ‘sure’. We weren’t necessarily bothered with what they said because my mother’s life genuinely sucked. A controlling husband (and not so perfect children 🙂) and many ailments.

But generally, ‘may she rest in peace’ is fine.
 
One I have heard from priests is “Who has gone on to their eternal reward”. This way you don’t speculate where the soul may have gone. Their eternal reward is that which they chose to receive while living their life on earth.
 
There’s actually a bit in the novel Ulysses where a character worries about his father who died before a priest could arrive. It’s sad.
 
I am all in favor of “may they rest in peace”, and saying that they have gone on to their eternal reward, we commend them unto the Lord, may their memory be eternal (that’s an Eastern thing), and so on. All well and good.

I was referring to the fact that people nowadays generally perform a de facto canonization of the person and are very dogmatic about the “fact” that they are definitely in heaven. It is Protestant “blessed assurance” coupled with what is, for all practical purposes, universal salvation.
 
HomeschoolDad said:
I suppose we could say that, whether they are in heaven, purgatory, or (God forbid) hell, they are indeed “in a better place”… because, after all, they see God for what He truly is, and they can’t sin anymore
Click to expand...
When someone makes a remark like “He is in a better place, now”, it is to comfort the loved ones left behind. Of course nobody has a clue where the soul of the deceased has gone. That applies for Catholics, as well as anyone else.

I would suggest only saying something to comfort others at a time like that. If you can’t, then don’t say anything. It is cruel to do otherwise. You can always say, “I am so sorry for your loss. I hope it is a comfort to know your husband is no longer suffering with cancer” or something like that.

Don’t put the need to feel you are “right” above the feelings of those suffering at a time like that. Sometimes it is just better to say nothing, if you can’t say something appropriate to the situation.
 
HomeschoolDad said:
I was referring to the fact that people nowadays generally perform a de facto canonization of the person and are very dogmatic about the “fact” that they are definitely in heaven. It is Protestant “blessed assurance” coupled with what is, for all practical purposes, universal salvation.
Click to expand...
I question that the phrase’s origin is Protestant. Protestants don’t believe that all are in heaven. Only those who repent /accept Jesus in their heart. I actually think the phrase reflects the Catholic version of hope of salvation.

I visited the site CARM for a while and Protestants definitely think Catholics are damned to hell if they are anything to go by.
 
Last edited:
JMMJ said:
I would suggest only saying something to comfort others at a time like that. If you can’t, then don’t say anything. It is cruel to do otherwise. You can always say, “I am so sorry for your loss. I hope it is a comfort to know your husband is no longer suffering with cancer” or something like that.

Don’t put the need to feel you are “right” above the feelings of those suffering at a time like that. Sometimes it is just better to say nothing, if you can’t say something appropriate to the situation.
Click to expand...
No, to tell the truth, I don’t say much of anything at all, precisely so I won’t get dragged down into all that “better place” business. If someone has died peacefully, with all of the rites of the Church, Viaticum, confession, and so on, then I have no real problem offering the comfort of their “being in a better place”. For manifest public sinners — and that includes those living in dissolute lifestyles or invalid marriages — the less said, the better.

I think I have told this story on CAF before, but we had a close family friend, living with HIV, who had adopted a celibate lifestyle after he was diagnosed. (Yes, he was gay.) They found him dead one morning, either a heart attack or an overdose, we want to think the latter was accidental, if it did indeed happen that way. My son, who was almost 7 at the time, asked if he was in heaven. I told him “Our friend ‘Joe’ (not his real name) was a good person, he loved everyone very much, he loved you very much, and everyone loved him very much. If we can all live and die in God’s friendship, I think we can have every pious hope that one day we will see him again.” He accepted this, there was no “trauma” or anything like that, and yes, he was mature enough to understand this.

As for myself, well, when it comes to matters of religion or spirituality, I am “from New York”, as they said in the film Terms of Endearment — I tell it like it is, and I want others to “tell it like it is” when it comes to my eternal fate. I am not the least bit offended that someone would fear for my salvation. In fact, I welcome their concern. I most certainly do want the kind of traditional funeral rites that my friend’s father had, with mention made of “just punishments”. I have arranged for the traditional Latin Requiem Mass for my funeral — black pall, black vestments, the whole shootin’ match, and no eulogies, traditional Catholics don’t do eulogies, not even President Kennedy had a eulogy. Likewise, I have arranged for thirty traditional Latin Gregorian Masses to be celebrated after my death.
 
HomeschoolDad said:
40.png
HomeschoolDad:
I was referring to the fact that people nowadays generally perform a de facto canonization of the person and are very dogmatic about the “fact” that they are definitely in heaven. It is Protestant “blessed assurance” coupled with what is, for all practical purposes, universal salvation.
Click to expand...
I question that the phrase’s origin is Protestant. Protestants don’t believe that all are in heaven. Only those who repent /accept Jesus in their heart. I actually think the phrase reflects the Catholic version of hope of salvation.

I visited the site CARM for a while and Protestants definitely think Catholics are damned to hell if they are anything to go by.
Click to expand...
Well, that is definitely true of those Protestants, but your garden-variety Methodist, or Presbyterian, or Disciples of Christ, or contemporary Anglican, will dare not speak of anything other than the departed being immediately entered into heaven. I will give the “saved or damned” fundamentalists this much, at least their view of salvation is basically the same as that of orthodox, traditional Catholic Christianity. And for those who profess no particular religion, universal salvation is the default mindset — the whole “in the arms of the angels” thing.
 
Online I usually write something like, “Rest in peace ______. May perpetual light shine upon him/her.”

I think it sends a message of hope without absolute certainty.
 
HomeschoolDad said:
No consideration whatsoever is given to the fact that a notorious sinner may not have saved their soul, and purgatory is barely mentioned
Click to expand...
As the Church has never declared anyone in hell, I do not make such an assumption about anyone. Recently read a book about the Nazi Dr. Mengale, and I prayed for the repose of his soul as I read.

We talk about purgatory all of the time in this part of the world. Someone dies? There are so many masses requested for them, this underscores our belief in purgatory.

For those who died after baptism and prior to reaching the age of reason, or those who died after receiving the Apostolic Pardon, we need not talk about purgatory or hell.

I’ve seen many funeral memorial cards that specifically ask people to pray for the soul that they may pass quickly through purgatory etc.

Yep, Protestant thinking does still float around.
 
HomeschoolDad said:
Well, that is definitely true of those Protestants, but your garden-variety Methodist, or Presbyterian, or Disciples of Christ, or contemporary Anglican, will dare not speak of anything other than the departed being immediately entered into heaven. I will give the “saved or damned” fundamentalists this much, at least their view of salvation is basically the same as that of orthodox, traditional Catholic Christianity. And for those who profess no particular religion, universal salvation is the default mindset — the whole “in the arms of the angels” thing.
Click to expand...
Theologically, protestants are more likely to say one is in a better place. If one believes and repent, they are saved. There is no prayer for the dead, funeral is generally a happy occasion to celebrate that the individual has went to heaven. Fundamentalist, have a more absolute view of salvation, but they don’t have the hope for salvation, no prayer for the dead. Culturally, it’s more of a way to comfort others.

There is a thing called preservation of the saints in protestantism, that means God predestine some to go to heaven or hell. Those who believe and repent, even if they fall out of favour with God in their spiritual journey, God will lead them back to the faith eventually. Number of protestants believe in this.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top