In a difficult situation

[MJJean]

All excellent points. Look, I’ll be man enough to admit that yes, your past is concerning. Your history is pretty checkered and it would cause me to step back for a minute or two.

So where the hell would I get off saying word one about you? Or the OP? I’m talking about the actions here, not anyone’s worth. We’re all beloved children of God.

Can I provide a counter? Most people in general have a bit of a wandering eye and some can keep it in check themselves. But I daresay my eyes have been opened about just how many people out there, like me who are great at mental gymnastics and self-deception.

None of us want to see ourselves as bad people. So instead of admitting where we are wrong, repent and repeat the process if and when we fall again, we try to rationalize our behavior to the point where it’s not just “I’m not bad guy” but “I don’t do bad things.”

We all do bad things. Telling ourselves that we don’t is just another layer of the self-deception onion. Take it from a guy who lived it for quite some time… and is the son of a guy who lived it and might still be living it for much, much longer.

Yup to both posts.

When I was in my teens and into my mid 20’s I was sinning left and right. I was absolutely deceiving myself. I don’t think I am a bad person, but I have done some bad things. Outside of the idiocy, I try my best to be kind, helpful, caring, giving, etc. Each and every bad thing I did I rationalized as hurting no one, not that big of a deal, or even helpful.

In fact, looking back with 20/20 vision, I committed my most terrible sins thinking I was doing the right thing. I was literally having affairs because I thought that was somehow better than divorcing my husband and “taking the kids away from their father”, no matter how terrible a father he was to them or how horrible a husband he was to me. Same with smoking marijuana and drinking on the weekends with friends after the kids were asleep. A little mental gymnastics and it was a-ok because I needed that to manage to stay sane in an insane marriage.

I was a mental gymnastics gold medalist.

I let one sin (pre-matiral sex) lead to another sin (marrying someone I pretty much hated who treated me like crud and that lead me to rationalize seeking love and comfort with other men) and that lead to another sin and so on. By the time I met my current husband I was getting my life straight except for the God shaped hole in it. And now I am getting that part straight, too. If I, a sinning former Pagan and then Atheist, can manage that I think anyone can if they want to.

I believe there are a fair number of Catholics who have committed major sins and are willing to be non-judgmental, understanding, and who are willing to help. Of course, there are going to be some who have not “been there” and who are going to be judgmental and those are the ones you realize lack the experience to understand, pray for, and love anyway.

Please, OP, don’t let those who gave you grief about your past circumstances put you off Catholicism. Work with your wife and a good priest to get everything squared away. Let the nanny go and hire another nanny that is perhaps an older lady less likely to be a source for emotional and/or physical temptation in the future.

 

[Cricket123]

My wife knows that I have gotten closer to this woman. She has point blank asked me if I “have feelings” for her…

Yikes!

Yeah, I’m going to have to change my vote on this one. “Starting to have feelings…” is a vague thing. If you’re at the point where it’s obvious to other people, especially your wife… well, not good.

 

[Rachel126]

Yup to both posts.

When I was in my teens and into my mid 20’s I was sinning left and right. I was absolutely deceiving myself. I don’t think I am a bad person, but I have done some bad things. Outside of the idiocy, I try my best to be kind, helpful, caring, giving, etc. Each and every bad thing I did I rationalized as hurting no one, not that big of a deal, or even helpful.

In fact, looking back with 20/20 vision, I committed my most terrible sins thinking I was doing the right thing. I was literally having affairs because I thought that was somehow better than divorcing my husband and “taking the kids away from their father”, no matter how terrible a father he was to them or how horrible a husband he was to me. Same with smoking marijuana and drinking on the weekends with friends after the kids were asleep. A little mental gymnastics and it was a-ok because I needed that to manage to stay sane in an insane marriage.

I was a mental gymnastics gold medalist.

I let one sin (pre-matiral sex) lead to another sin (marrying someone I pretty much hated who treated me like crud and that lead me to rationalize seeking love and comfort with other men) and that lead to another sin and so on. By the time I met my current husband I was getting my life straight except for the God shaped hole in it. And now I am getting that part straight, too. If I, a sinning former Pagan and then Atheist, can manage that I think anyone can if they want to.

I believe there are a fair number of Catholics who have committed major sins and are willing to be non-judgmental, understanding, and who are willing to help. Of course, there are going to be some who have not “been there” and who are going to be judgmental and those are the ones you realize lack the experience to understand, pray for, and love anyway.

Please, OP, don’t let those who gave you grief about your past circumstances put you off Catholicism. Work with your wife and a good priest to get everything squared away. Let the nanny go and hire another nanny that is perhaps an older lady less likely to be a source for emotional and/or physical temptation in the future.

Slightly off topic MJ, but I truly want to commend you for your courage and your desire to become Catholic. No judgment whatsoever here. I did some things in the past that i’m not proud of either, and similarly to you, I believed at the time I wasn’t hurting anyone. I justified it by that reason. when I “came around,” so to speak, making a list of my past sins horrified me. Don’t be discouraged. Even most cradle Catholics spent some time, often in their youth, screwing up on some level(s).

 

[bluehen95]

Yikes!

Yeah, I’m going to have to change my vote on this one. “Starting to have feelings…” is a vague thing. If you’re at the point where it’s obvious to other people, especially your wife… well, not good.

Well, there’s a little more to that, but she certainly knows I think highly of her, anyway.

 

[MJJean]

Slightly off topic MJ, but I truly want to commend you for your courage and your desire to become Catholic. No judgment whatsoever here. I did some things in the past that i’m not proud of either, and similarly to you, I believed at the time I wasn’t hurting anyone. I justified it by that reason. when I “came around,” so to speak, making a list of my past sins horrified me. Don’t be discouraged. Even most cradle Catholics spent some time, often in their youth, screwing up on some level(s).

TYVM. That means a lot to me and I am sure to others who have made serious mistakes who may read this thread.

While awaiting a Decree of Nullity I am trying to make a list of my sins for my first Confession. Yeah, that’s fun. sarcasm Horrified about covers it. I am somewhat comforted that maybe telling others openly and honestly about my mistakes will somehow help them. Either by being able to avoid doing what I did or by realizing they, too, can get themselves sorted out and right with God.

 

[mafh]

You must get rid of the nanny. There is no other way. However, since this situation is your fault and not the nanny’s, you or your wife must do all that you can to make sure that she gets a good severance package and a good reference. Perhaps your kids are old enough that you might consider daycare instead of a nanny. Or, if you do decide to get another nanny, maybe you should consider a male nanny, given your susceptibilities.

 

[on_the_hill]

It will be a difficult firing. “Nanny, you’re so awesome that I have no choice but to fire you. It’s hard for me to do because I’m in love with–I mean–the kids really love you. In a child-nanny way, of course. I’ll be happy to provide any references and tell potential employers that it’s totally not your fault that I was seduced by you.”

I suggest you avoid all that trouble by packing up and moving your family to a new city in the middle of the night.

 

[mafh]

It will be a difficult firing. “Nanny, you’re so awesome that I have no choice but to fire you. It’s hard for me to do because I’m in love with–I mean–the kids really love you. In a child-nanny way, of course. I’ll be happy to provide any references and tell potential employers that it’s totally not your fault that I was seduced by you.”

I suggest you avoid all that trouble by packing up and moving your family to a new city in the middle of the night.

Yeah, it would be best not to tell the nanny the reason you are letting her go. The best thing would be if they were going to put the kids in daycare (or something like that) because they could just use that as the explanation.

 

[MJJean]

Yeah, it would be best not to tell the nanny the reason you are letting her go. The best thing would be if they were going to put the kids in daycare (or something like that) because they could just use that as the explanation.

Yeah, I wouldn’t tell her that she is being dismissed because of the emotional attraction. I’d simply say that we have decided we no longer need a nanny and leave it at that.

 

[Pax2u]

My instincts tell me OP is a troll.

If not…both wife and nanny should run like the wind, as OP is a real piece of work.

 

[erlembald]

Talk to her like a Catholic, adult man about the whole issue. Tell her you notice these feelings growing, but that you want do the right thing; ask her what to do about it. Maybe she will want herself to find another job, or if she is a woman truly close to God she will maybe even be able to pray with you and help you overcome this situation. In the best case she can help you come closer to God. Often such situations of testing have the potential of strengthening your faith…if handled properly! And of course, talk to a priest in whom you have personal faith!

 

[NSFrame]

An emotional affair is still cheating. And that’s what this is.

 

[clem456]

An emotional affair is still cheating. And that’s what this is.

Good one. Cheating is not just a physical action on the part of one spouse. If one spouse is deprived of the full range of marital benefits, physical, emotional, spiritual etc…they are “cheated” of what the spouse should provide them.

 

[MamaJewel]

I feel for you bluehen. I’ve been in many difficult situations myself. However, I’m realizing my contributing roles in most (not all) of those difficult situations. I can see where you and your wife had good intentions to “integrate” the nanny into your lives. Yet, from my perspective (and negative experiences), I also can see where that wasn’t a prudent choice for your marriage and family. A nanny is a person that’s hired to be a caregiver for the children. He or she isn’t a family member nor friend and really doesn’t have any need to be “integrated” and given that level of status within the family. She’s there as a business person conducting the position of nanny. There doesn’t need to be any more personal exchanges other than the info she gave about herself on her application and resume and during the interview/hiring process. Being a nanny is a professional job. She’s not a surrogate wife or sibling to the kids. So maybe that is part of the problem with the situation. Professional boundaries were crossed at the outset of her taking the job.

Also, I’m wondering. How is it that you’re busy working from home and she’s busy in her nanny role with the children, but you both have time to do any bonding? That doesn’t make sense to me. We often hear in therapy that the wife is so busy tending to the children that she doesn’t have time for the husband. I would think as a nanny, this young woman is making herself quite busy tending to the children and their development. I can’t see how two working adults are getting their different job descriptions accomplished while having time to bond, unless their working on the same project. I guess I’m trying to ask why you need a nanny in the first place if your work from home allows you time to bond with her on her job. Why can’t you watch the children yourself and do your job? Something’s amiss here.

You mentioned in an earlier response:

" I do honestly believe that God leads people places at different times, and it’s up to them to see it, see why, and act appropriately."

Please, I beg you, do not try to use God in this way. I ask this from humble personal experience because my spouse decided to go live with his co-worker instead of fighting for his marriage last year. We have 8 living children and it has been a nightmare for us. God hasn’t brought this young woman into your life for you to have feelings for this woman. This situation has been ripe for temptation from the start.

Please, relieve this young woman of her duties and spare your children from disaster. It’s challenging enough for parents who follow the teachings of their faith to keep the world’s influence from taking the children away from Holiness. Throw mortal sin and bad boundaries in the mix, and satan is waiting right there with open arms to welcome young people into his fold as they run away from Christianity.

Peace

MJ

 

[Cat]

Talk to her like a Catholic, adult man about the whole issue. Tell her you notice these feelings growing, but that you want do the right thing; ask her what to do about it. Maybe she will want herself to find another job, or if she is a woman truly close to God she will maybe even be able to pray with you and help you overcome this situation. In the best case she can help you come closer to God. Often such situations of testing have the potential of strengthening your faith…if handled properly! And of course, talk to a priest in whom you have personal faith!

I don’t agree with this at all. It’s dangerous for both parties. It is a very bad idea to ask a young innocent woman “what to do about it.” Why should she take on the burden of the man’s secret shame? What on earth would an inexperienced young woman tell an older man who confesses that he can’t control his heart?! Where would she learn such things–from watching soap operas on TV? For heaven’s sake, a trained counselor would have a difficult time sorting out all the issues in this man’s life! No way should a young woman have to tackle it.

If a man had this kind of talk with one of our daughters, my husband and I would be on a plane and at that man’s door by sunset, and calling out for his blood (or at least, plenty of his money for our daughter)! It’s his problem to deal with, not hers.

This man needs to stay physically away from the young woman until she is safely out of his house and somewhere where he will never see her again. If necessary, he should move back home with his parents, or into the home of a trusted Christian male friend who will hold him accountable. Perhaps the priest would give the man shelter for a few days or a week until the young woman is gone from his home.

The OP should confess his weakness and his near-disaster to his wife and beg her forgiveness and forbearance. Then she, as the woman of the house, should meet face to face with the nanny and give her notice. She should not share the reason, but she should tell the nanny that there are some pressing family issues, and that the family has decided that they need to work out these issues.

The wife should try as hard as she can to lessen the blow, but it will be a blow, and the young nanny will probably cry (this is just one reason why the man should be far away when the discussion is occurring–most men cannot handle a woman’s tears!).

Depending on where the wife works, she might be able to give the nanny some leads on a new position. The wife should work on this in advance before giving the nanny notice–she can ask around at work and see if any of the other women are looking for a good nanny. I’ve worked in a hospital for over 20 years, and I can testify that there is always someone looking for childcare!

At the very least, the wife should have a glowing reference written out and she should give this to the nanny. She should also discuss a severance pay, and make it clear that she and her husband would like to make sure that the young nanny has a severance pay that will take care of her needs for at last a month, possibly longer. And that severance pay should come out of the HUSBAND’s paycheck, and IMO, he should earn it by taking on an extra job, perhaps in a setting that demands a lot of physical labor; e.g., janitorial work, or mowing lawns.

 

[HouseArrest]

I don’t agree with this at all. It’s dangerous for both parties. It is a very bad idea to ask a young innocent woman “what to do about it.” Why should she take on the burden of the man’s secret shame? What on earth would an inexperienced young woman tell an older man who confesses that he can’t control his heart?! Where would she learn such things–from watching soap operas on TV? For heaven’s sake, a trained counselor would have a difficult time sorting out all the issues in this man’s life! No way should a young woman have to tackle it.

If a man had this kind of talk with one of our daughters, my husband and I would be on a plane and at that man’s door by sunset, and calling out for his blood (or at least, plenty of his money for our daughter)! It’s his problem to deal with, not hers.

This man needs to stay physically away from the young woman until she is safely out of his house and somewhere where he will never see her again. If necessary, he should move back home with his parents, or into the home of a trusted Christian male friend who will hold him accountable. Perhaps the priest would give the man shelter for a few days or a week until the young woman is gone from his home.

The OP should confess his weakness and his near-disaster to his wife and beg her forgiveness and forbearance. Then she, as the woman of the house, should meet face to face with the nanny and give her notice. She should not share the reason, but she should tell the nanny that there are some pressing family issues, and that the family has decided that they need to work out these issues.

The wife should try as hard as she can to lessen the blow, but it will be a blow, and the young nanny will probably cry (this is just one reason why the man should be far away when the discussion is occurring–most men cannot handle a woman’s tears!).

Depending on where the wife works, she might be able to give the nanny some leads on a new position. The wife should work on this in advance before giving the nanny notice–she can ask around at work and see if any of the other women are looking for a good nanny. I’ve worked in a hospital for over 20 years, and I can testify that there is always someone looking for childcare!

At the very least, the wife should have a glowing reference written out and she should give this to the nanny. She should also discuss a severance pay, and make it clear that she and her husband would like to make sure that the young nanny has a severance pay that will take care of her needs for at last a month, possibly longer. And that severance pay should come out of the HUSBAND’s paycheck, and IMO, he should earn it by taking on an extra job, perhaps in a setting that demands a lot of physical labor; e.g., janitorial work, or mowing lawns.

I am actually surprised the wife didn’t already do something like this without the husband’s blessing. I know couples are supposed to make decisions together, but I would not go to work, every day, leaving my husband and kids with the nanny opening my husband’s heart and changing his life. I have no idea in the world how the husband has convinced his wife to go along with anything but the above.

 

[MSSheBear]

Having been a nanny, I would say having the wife inform the nanny that they no plan to use a nanny, and give her a month’s severance pay and a glowing recommendation. She will miss the children but probably not the parents. I am curious to know if the nanny is aware of the dad’s feelings for her. The nanny may be ready to split anyway. The mom should do the hiring and firing since it is the custom.

I agree with HouseArrest. I am surprised the mom hasn’t fired the nanny already.

 

[bluehen95]

My instincts tell me OP is a troll. If not…both wife and nanny should run like the wind, as OP is a real piece of work.

Well, I surely hope you don’t have to rely on your instincts for a living, and I thank you for the highly Christian sentiment. I wish I was a troll, then this would not be real.

I sat down to write 1,000 words or less about what I’m feeling, to try to understand what is going on in my head and figure out just how deep this water is. I often do this and just let words flow out without correcting them, because the first cut is the most honest.

I wound up with ten paragraphs about this woman, one about my wife, and one that basically says that while I know the pitfalls and dangers and likelihood that no result will look anything like I’d hope it would, I’d continue to push the limits in pursuit of an outcome I haven’t even stopped to envision, unless someone or something stopped me.

Bottom line, I’m in way, way over my head. And I don’t know if it’s her, or my marriage, or my point in life, or all of the above. I know I have to stop seeing her, but I also know I’m not likely to pull the trigger. And what then? What if it IS about her first and foremost, and not the other things? How does THAT not linger over my future with my wife?

My wife knows that I think this woman is wonderful. She’s suspicious that I have feelings for her, though I doubt at this depth, but wants to trust me. I don’t want to hurt her. I have zero clue what to do. I prayed about this last night, and was rewarded with seven hours of doing nothing but dreaming about the nanny. Awesome.

I know I should feel guilty and I kind of do. I say “kind of” because when feeling rational, I get cold and ask myself what the hell I’m doing, and why. I know this has consequences that are probably already irreversible. And I know someone will get hurt.

So I should feel like the world’s worst person because of this. And yet, when I’m around her, I just feel really good, happy. This is such a total and complete mess.

 

[bluehen95]

I am curious to know if the nanny is aware of the dad’s feelings for her.

She knows a good bit. She’d have to be rather naive not to have a bigger picture.

 

[Pax2u]

If I have assessed the situation incorrectly I offer my apologies for that. But you are making horrible decisions. Get yourself to a priest in the sacrament of Reconciliation and tell the priest everything you told us. And, if you really care about doing the right thing, follow his advice.

If you aren’t sincere about wanting to do the right thing, you’ll just continue in the manner you’ve been describing. And be prepared to lose everything…your wife, your current relationship with your children, and the nanny. Satan knows our weak areas, and tempts us there…he doesn’t tempt the thief to lie or the liar to steal. Make a choice based on reason and your faith, not your “feelings.”

It’s not unusual for married people to face temptation. It’s not a sin to be tempted. But how you handle the temptation sure can lead to serious sin, that has horrible repercussions for many people. I’ll pray you make good decisions.