In a pluralistic society of different beliefs, does the Christian have the right to impose their religious beliefs on those who do not believe?

  • Thread starter Thread starter IWantGod
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Elf01 said:
We have all been unborn once. Luckily we survived in the womb long enough to be born without being murdered.
Click to expand...
Look man, i am just facing the reality of secular law. You can make these emotionally driven statements if you want. But it’s not going to change reality.
 
Last edited:
IWantGod said:
Look man, i am just facing the reality of secular law. You can keep making these emotionally driven statement all you want. But it’s not going to change reality.
Click to expand...
But it seems you keep changing the goalposts. I told you that a person’s body is created at the moment of conception and you asked “what about the soul?” So I asked you about the value of a person and you go back to asking about secular law.
 
The soul has no place in secular law.
IWantGod said:
Look man, i am just facing the reality of secular law. You can make these emotionally driven statements if you want. But it’s not going to change reality.
Click to expand...
I think that abortion is legal primarily for emotional and financial reasons. Having been privileged enough to be born it is easier to identify with the woman in a crisis pregnancy than with the unborn child and it has proven to be a profitable business.
 
I won’t deny that these things have played a part. But there is also a metaphysical aspect to the debate that will never find it’s place in the decision making of any law, and that is God and the value given to us by God from the moment of conception. People here have argued that we don’t need God or the soul to justify criminalizing abortion. I disagree. I think it’s precisely because what we hold by faith is not self evident practical reality that allows for the existence of secular law and thus the practical inevitability of legalized abortion.

This is why the legal war on abortion makes no sense to me because the system by it’s very nature is limited in establishing the value of something or someone… There is no point in ignoring that. At most political candidates think its a convenient political tool used to grab your votes.

I think the war on abortion is a culture war, and that is the only war that’s worth fighting.
 
Last edited:
Scientists familiar with pregnancy agree that the moment a woman gets pregnant she is pregnant with a child. That’s practical reality.

I don’t know what a “culture war” means.
 
Last edited:
LittleFlower378 said:
The best case scenario would be to have a Catholic country where Catholic principles are upheld. This of course would include freedom of religion, where people can worship freely.
Click to expand...
Malta.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
It was Buffalo’s implicit agreement to facts and figutes I posted that indicated that all is not well. He didn’t respond to my opinion. But to facts and figures. If you want to think everything is just wine and roses, then you are entitled to…what was it called? Ah, yes. Your opinion.

And a ‘liberal love affair with Islam’ is a large part of the problem? What? Did someone tell you that in a bar or did you just make it up? It has no basis in reality whatsoever.

And dear Lord, how many times must I say this. Just because a society has laws that align with what some Christians believe about some aspects of Chritianity DOES NOT mean that you can claim them all to yourself.

‘Look, we don’t allow murder. And it says you can’t murder in the bible, therefore it is based on Christianity!’

It says lots of things in the bible. Including death for homosexuality and collecting sticks on the Sabbeth. And I’ve got one guy on another thread who says it would be a good idea to have the death penalty for blasphemy. Seriously. I kid you not.

I’ve gotta tell you…if cherry picking was an Olympic event, you guys would clear gold every time.
 
Last edited:
Bradskii said:
‘Look, we don’t allow murder. And it says you can’t murder in the bible, therefore it is based on Christianity!’
Click to expand...
Yes, absolutely. Actually it comes from the Judaism part and the 10 commandments. It comes from the Christian teaching of love one another and do not murder. Atheists have no reason to not murder.

Remember Cain murdered Abel right at the beginning and God handled it.
 
Last edited:
buffalo said:
40.png
Bradskii:
‘Look, we don’t allow murder. And it says you can’t murder in the bible, therefore it is based on Christianity!’
Click to expand...
Yes, absolutely. Actually it comes from the Judaism part and the 10 commandments. It comes from the Christian teaching of love one another and do not murder. Atheists have no reason to not murder.

Remember Cain murdered Abel right at the beginning and God handled it.
Click to expand...
You crack me up, Buffalo. Honestly. You are my go-to guy if I want cheering up.

I guess what you meant to say was that people who don’t believe in your God have no reason to murder. Which means the majority of the planet has no reason not to murder. Which cracks me up no end. Maybe you haven’t been told about all the places in the world which are not-America. And all of the places where there is a lot less killin’ and murderin’ than home town USA.

And maybe you are ignoring all the killin’ and murderin’ in your back yard. Which means that although you claim you have a reason not to do it, so many of your fellow Christians seem to revel in it.

And what was your comment about not cherry picking bits of the bible? Oh yeah. You didn’t make one. Still, plenty of oportunity.
 
Bradskii said:
If you want to think everything is just wine and roses,
Click to expand...
I didn’t say that. I said “all things considered”. You have my very gracious and formal permission to stop putting words in my mouth, now.
Bradskii said:
And a ‘liberal love affair with Islam’ is a large part of the problem? What? Did someone tell you that in a bar or did you just make it up? It has no basis in reality whatsoever.
Click to expand...
Sure it does. You don’t see any liberals marching against the atrocities of how Islam treats its women, or arguing with the Muslim women who have been indoctrinated into thinking it’s okay to be treated like objects.
Bradskii said:
And dear Lord, how many times must I say this. Just because a society has laws that align with what some Christians believe about some aspects of Chritianity DOES NOT mean that you can claim them all to yourself.
Click to expand...
Bolding mine. Funny that you’d use that phrase. Almost like it’s part of the society we live in…hmmmmm.
Bradskii said:
‘Look, we don’t allow murder. And it says you can’t murder in the bible, therefore it is based on Christianity!
Click to expand...
It’s a little more involved than that.
Bradskii said:
It says lots of things in the bible. Including death for homosexuality and collecting sticks on the Sabbeth.
Click to expand...
You’re no Bible / history scholar or you’d know why Christians are not bound to live under the old laws that the Jews were. Why We Are Not Bound by Everything in the Old Law | Catholic Answers
Bradskii said:
And I’ve got one guy on another thread who says it would be a good idea to have the death penalty for blasphemy. Seriously. I kid you not.
Click to expand...
How very Islamic of him. Obviously not a Christian mode of thought.
Bradskii said:
I’ve gotta tell you…if cherry picking was an Olympic event, you guys would clear gold every time.
Click to expand...
“Kettle, this is Pot. Come in, Kettle. You’re black, over.”
 
Last edited:
OK, ‘all things considered’ you appear to think that it’s just wine and roses. ‘Just fine’ to use your term. So may I ask if the abortion rate is ‘just fine’. Or the rate of divorce is ‘just fine’. Or the homicide rate is ‘just fine’. Or domestic violence. Or drug use. Or…well, you get the general drift in the line of enquiry.

And spare me the ‘Judeo-Christian’ diversion. You would claim that all of western society is based on their principles when they are universal principles valued by all civilised states. You just happen to share them (notwithstanding that you drop the Judeo portions of moral codes like a hot potatoe when it suits you - just another classic example of picking them cherries). What you should be comparing is the problems with an overtly Christian society - the US, with specifically secular countries. Then see how you stack up.

And you said a love affair with Islam by leftists is a cause of your problems. I see you’ve dropped that nonsensical line of reasoning and changed it to a charge that no-one seems to care about the treatment of Muslim women. Something completely different and equally specious. How about you type ‘Hitchens’ and ‘Muslims’ into Google and see where it takes you. Plenty tonread and listen to there. Lots of diatribes by leftist atheists against Islam and its treatemnt of women. Not that has the slightest connection with the thread but it will disavow you of your ilL informed comments.

And if it’s a little more involved then a simple correlation between what we see in the bible and what is on the statute books, you might take the time to explain. You might, for example explain why is it that we see no reference to making false idols on the books. Or working on the Sabbath. Or (and this is the clincher) having no other gods except yours.

I can save you the time if you like. There is no correlation. Right minded people, when formulating the laws by which we live in a secular society, could care less about someone having other gods or picking up sticks on a Sunday. But right minded people, universally, whatever the religion of that country or even where there is no established religion, have an aversion to people being murdered. connect the dots Raxus and reach a conclusion.

And yes, the guy who has a belief that we should execute people who blaspheme is a moron. So I think that we are in agreement that in a pluralistic society of different beliefs, he shouldn’t have the right to impose his religious beliefs on others.

Hey, did you see what we did there? We answered the OP’s question. Well, waddyaknow…
 
Last edited:
IWantGod said:
Nobody wants to be raped even if they would choose to rape someone else. So it makes sense that rape is against the law.
Click to expand...
Maybe you need to be more specific about what Christian beliefs you are referring to.
 
Lawl, you mad. Western societies are provably, historically based on Judeo-Christian values. Please show me a country that isn’t that is better in all the categories you mentioned than the U.S.
 
Raxus said:
Lawl, you mad. Western societies are provably, historically based on Judeo-Christian values. Please show me a country that isn’t that is better in all the categories you mentioned than the U.S.
Click to expand...
I’m not going to let you change the question around. Which is, if the US is solidly Christian, why does it do so badly compared to more secular countries?

And as an addendum, as you keep bringing it up, why is there nothing in western society that demands that people obey any precepts of Christianity?
 
In what way is the U.S. worse than secular countries?

Western society is based on Judeo-Christian concepts of justice, etc. One of the amazing things about Christianity is that it doesn’t require you to be a Christian to benefit from it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top