"In addition, the cardinal explains why the church must not spread fear – “of Hell or whatever”." (German prelates again)

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I just saw that phrase the cardinal used:
“hell or whatever”
That "whatever’ might be the scariest part of what he said.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
I’m not sure what the big fascination is with Germany that we have to hear about it on here every time a “German prelate” opens his mouth. Germany is not going to single-handedly ruin the Church for the rest of us. I’m also not convinced that every little thing the “German prelates” say or every little move they make is of general interest.
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Cash. Lots and lots of it. Germany contributes by far more cash to the global church than any other country besides the US. The churches in most countries on this planet are highly dependent on American and German cash. Not just developing countries, but countries like Denmark, which is very far from poor.

That is why when an American or German prelate speaks, people take note, because their lifeblood is on the line.

Why is Germany such an important source of cash? It has to do with the “church tax” system they have there.
 
Speaking as a US Catholic, our dollars may be welcomed, but it’s pretty clear that the Pope doesn’t much care what we think. It’s not just Pope Francis either. I don’t think any Pope has ever had much use for US opinions on anything.
 
goout said:
It seems to me that what you are seeing in Europe is an overreaction to the Big Wars. And the Cardinal seems to be one of those who has bought into the dominant secular narrative that religious zealotry is responsible for those wars.
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Isn’t it true that Catholicism was important to the Ustashe?
 
AlNg said:
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goout:
It seems to me that what you are seeing in Europe is an overreaction to the Big Wars. And the Cardinal seems to be one of those who has bought into the dominant secular narrative that religious zealotry is responsible for those wars.
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Isn’t it true that Catholicism was important to the Ustashe?
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I don’t have any expertise on that particular issue.
A basic overview of this group seems to associate them with Nazi ideology.
 
IanM said:
Part 2 of translation
Marx added: "We do not want to change the Society of freedom."One should not exclude anyone just because he does not come to church every Sunday. “Where fear is spread - of Hell or whatever-the Gospel cannot work.”

The “Augsburg peace talks” took place under the title "does Peace need the churches?“for the first time. According to the organizers, representatives of science, politics, culture, Religion and Sports will talk twice a year about Interculturality, Migration, Integration, diversity and multi-religious dialogue. The talks refer to the Augsburg religious peace of 1555. They are intended to promote an understanding of current developments in heterogeneous societies, present new perspectives and concrete options for action, and encourage active participation and shaping of social processes. (KNA)”

Yet, I seem to recall

“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Fools despise wisdom and instruction.”

Proverbs 1:7 Douay-Rheims

and

And Our Lord Himself said:

“And fear ye not them that kill the body, and are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him that can destroy both soul and body in hell.”

Mathew 10:28

I guess Marx thinks we will have to scrap most of the Old Testament and the bits of the New Testament that Our Lord got wrong…….
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Unless you think that St Augustine scrapped the Old Testament too, then Cardinal Marx is teaching a 2000 year old tenet of Christianity. Per St Augustine…

In vain, however, does any one think himself to have gained the victory over sin, if, through nothing but fear of punishment, he refrains from sin; because, although the outward action to which an evil desire prompts him is not performed, the evil desire itself within the man is an enemy unsubdued. And who is found innocent in God’s sight who is willing to do the sin which is forbidden if you only remove the punishment which is feared? And consequently, even in the volition itself, he is guilty of sin who wishes to do what is unlawful, but refrains from doing it because it cannot be done with impunity; for, so far as he is concerned, he would prefer that there were no righteousness forbidding and punishing sins. And assuredly, if he would prefer that there should be no righteousness, who can doubt that he would if he could abolish it altogether? How, then, can that man be called righteous who is such an enemy to righteousness that, if he had the power, he would abolish its authority, that he might not be subject to its threatenings or its penalties? He, then, is an enemy to righteousness who refrains from sin only through fear of punishment; but he will become the friend of righteousness if through love of it he sin not, for then he will be really afraid to sin. For the man who only fears the flames of hell is afraid not of sinning, but of being burned; but the man who hates sin as much as he hates hell is afraid to sin. This is the “fear of the Lord,” which “is pure, enduring for ever.” For the fear of punishment has torment, and is not in love; and love, when it is perfect, casts it out.
 
ProdglArchitect said:
There are a lot of people in our world who need to develop a genuine fear of Hell.
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It’s popular to say things like this, but telling people over and over that there’s a Hell and they might well be going there and they should be afraid, etc. doesn’t cause people to develop a fear of it. If it did, then everybody would be walking around right now terrified of Hell, because there’s no shortage of reference to it in society. If it’s not coming from the Catholics, it’s coming from the Protestant Evangelicals, or even from the popular media.
 
Rau said:
It’s a weak guarantee I think. AFAIK it’s easily avoided. When one registers with the taxing authority, you need to say which is your religion. You can tick “none”.
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This option exists.

The downside is that technically, if you’re not registered with the church, but still attending mass and using other services, you are getting a free ride at the expense of the other faithful who are paying their full contribution.

There have also been cases of priests refusing marriages, funerals etc to people who had opted out.

You are either Catholic or you are not Catholic. There isn’t a halfway house. And I think rightly so.
 
Quite so, and I have yet to see anyone here suggesting otherwise. Indeed the Act of Contrition states as follows
" O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended You and I detest all my sins,* because I dread the loss of heaven and the pains of hell, but most of all because they offend you, my God, who are all good and deserving of all my love.* I firmly resolve, with the help of your grace, to confess my sins, to do penance and to amend my life."
 
I don’t mean this in flippant way but I also don’t understand why it matters so much what happens in Germany, since the percentage of regularly practicing Catholics there is such a tiny, tiny percentage of the universal Church. I know: they still matter. But it seems like we treat Catholics from N. America or Europe (or let’s be honest: white Catholics) like they are fully a person and Catholics from elsewhere like they are 3/5th of a person.

There are more Catholics who attend Mass on Sunday in Vietnam than in Germany, but the Church in Germany gets red carpet attention and the Church in Vietnam is subhuman or something.
 
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Cirdan_XII said:
You are either Catholic or you are not Catholic. There isn’t a halfway house. And I think rightly so.
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Being Catholic could reasonably be said to necessitate supporting the church financially. The plate is still passed around in German churches isn’t it? I can understand why people might take objection to an institutionalized church tax.
 
😅. You are right to some extent. I actually get most of my news concerning the catholic church in Germany here on CAF although I live in Germany. I do not feel any changes in my weekly mass, the homilies of our priests have not changed, as far as I am concerned, wether Kardinal Marx believes in Hell or not does not change the beautiful and enriching homilies of Pfarrer Ipolt or Kpl. Funke during my sunday mass. It’s good to be informed about what is happening in our catholic world but what’s even more important is to live as much as possible at an individual level a good christian and sacramental life and not bother too much what this cardinal or that one says here or there.
 
Yes you are right. Bavaria is very conservative and catholic. Unfortunately where I am (former east germany) is very atheistic, the few Christians are mainly protestants. The catholics here are very few. We got just one catholic church in my whole town…its a small town but still… there were many more catholic churches here before, but were almost all taken over by protestant churches after the reformation I guess
 
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I also think a lot of the German Catholics may have emigrated to USA. There were large communities of them in some parts of US in the 1800s. Some seminaries would only teach in German, no English.
 
Emeraldlady said:
then Cardinal Marx is teaching a 2000 year old tenet of Christianity.
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How about here?


Cardinal Marx says gay pairs can receive the blessing of the Church for their relationship even if it is not real marriage. Blessing for what? Can a straight couple who is not married but has sex and lives together receive a blessing as well?
I am.not a German speaker I used Google to translate so please anyone enlighten me if I am getting this right or not. What did Cardinal Marx say?
 
Always read the modern day press with caution and scepticism. That’s my motto.

In an interview with the German magazine Stern, the Archbishop of Munich and Freising was asked, “What do you do when a homosexual couple asks you for an episcopal blessing?”

Marx responded: “I can bless them both in the sense of pastoral accompaniment, we can pray together. But theirs cannot be a marriage-like relationship.”

https://catholicherald.co.uk/news/2...w-cardinal-marx-speaks-on-same-sex-blessings/

He was speaking of the platonic friendship that Catholics have had since before the whole homosexual orientation was ever discussed by the Church. I’ve known of several of those sorts of relationships in my time. They are possible with the help of Gods grace and a solution to the loneliness that plagues Catholic SSA people.
 
I did some research on wether he actually said that or not, and all I found were bits of sentences he said, taken out of context. German is not my first language but from what I understand, he never used the word ‘‘bless’’. I actually find the headline of the article agenda-driven, probably by an LGBT lobby. The article was first paraphrased in that way on an LGBT website called queer.de. So we can guess why they did that. All what he seemed to say was, ‘’ we can pray together with them’’.
The most suprising thing is, Kardinal Marx seems to have already refuted the claim that he was quoted saying ‘‘homosexual couples can be blessed in the church’’. He refuted this claim in an article published in February 2018, yet this new article about him approving blessing of homosexuals is dated December 2019 😱
This does not make any sense!! So whoever released this article with a dubious headline just pulled off an old interview which came out probable in 2017 or early 2018, which was already refuted by Kardinal Marx as being a misinterpretation of his words, and rereleased it again in december 2019 inorder to push a pro LGBT agenda.
Its terrible what secular media has become. We have to be very careful with what we read.
Below is a link to the article in german where he denies haven ever said homosexual couples can be blessed in the church:

 
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