In and out of the faith

[Severus_Snape]

I have trouble coming to grips with what God wants of us. I have been Catholic all my life. But I feel that no matter what good I do, nothing good happens to me. I know we are to live for the eternal reward, but that doesn’t mean earthly life has to suck does it?

I don’t want to be a mother theresa or a padre pio, I’m in no way a materialist, but I don’t want to be as spiritual as someone like them, I don’t feel like getting attacked by Satan or go through ‘dark nights’ like they have. I’m sick of ‘wait patiently and pray’ - I’m not a recent convert to Catholicism, I have been catholic all my life, I don’t brag about prayer, but certainly there has been a LOT of rosaries prayed, countless our fathers, hail mary’s and etc. I know it’s not in the amount but by what you mean, and I have meant it, all, especially when I got older and understood it more.

Also despite all my praying and prayers for others, I get sick of it sometimes. My life is static, nothing good happens to me. I don’t have a gf, I don’t have a job, I’m just living life randomnly. It’s not like I haven’t tried to get a gf or a job, no matter how much I pray so that I may change, that I be more positive, that I put more effort, NOTHING ****** happens. I’m inclined to believe that God only cares about some people and the others he likes to hear prayers continuously from them but does nothing. All I hear is ‘wait patiently, bla bla bla’

I hate God.

 

[FightingFat]

Have you thought about taking some positive action?

Matthew 25:35-40

You could change your life by visiting the elderly, or the sick, or the imprisoned voluntarily.

Make some space in your life for the Holy Spirit to grow. Don’t think of a relationship with God to be about you ask and he delivers, sometimes you need to walk a path and its tough, but having walked it you understand it in a way you could never have done otherwise.

THE BRICK

A young and successful executive was travelling down a neighbourhood street, going a bit too fast in his new Jaguar. He was watching for kids darting out from between parked cars and slowed down

When he thought he saw something. As his car passed, no children appeared. Instead, a brick smashed into the Jag’s side door!

He slammed on the brakes and backed the Jag back to the spot where the brick had been thrown. The angry driver then jumped out of the car, grabbed the nearest kid and pushed him up against a parked car shouting, ‘What was that all about and who are you? Just what the heck are you doing? That’s a new car and that brick you threw is going to cost a lot of money. Why did you do it?’ The young boy was apologetic. ‘Please, mister…please, I’m sorry but I didn’t know what else to do,’ He pleaded. ‘I threw the brick because no one else would stop…’ With tears dripping down his face and off his chin, the youth pointed to a spot just around a parked car. ‘It’s my brother,’ he said, ‘he rolled off the curb and fell out of his wheelchair and I can’t lift him up.’

Now sobbing, the boy asked the stunned executive, ‘Would you please help me get him back into his wheelchair? He’s hurt and he’s too heavy for me.’

Moved beyond words, the driver tried to swallow the rapidly swelling lump in his throat. He hurriedly lifted the handicapped boy back into the wheelchair, then took out a linen handkerchief and dabbed at the fresh scrapes and cuts. A quick look told him everything was going to be okay. ‘Thank you and may God bless you,’ the grateful child told the stranger. Too shook up for words, the man simply watched the boy push his wheelchair-bound brother down the sidewalk toward their home.

It was a long, slow walk back to the Jaguar. The damage was very noticeable, but the driver never bothered to repair the dented side door. He kept the dent there to remind him of this message: ‘Don’t go through life so fast that someone has to throw a brick at you to get your attention!’ God whispers in our souls and speaks to our hearts. Sometimes when we don’t have time to listen, He has to throw a brick at us. It’s our choice to listen or not.

Thought for the Day:

If God had a refrigerator, your picture would be on it.
If He had a wallet, your photo would be in it.
He sends you flowers every spring.
He sends you a sunrise every morning Face it, friend - He is crazy about you!

Send this to every ‘beautiful person’ you wish to bless.

God didn’t promise days without pain, laughter without sorrow, sun without rain, but He did promise strength for the day, comfort for the tears, and light for the way.

Read this line very slowly and let it sink in…

If God brings you to it, He will bring you through it.

 

[AeroChunky]

I have trouble coming to grips with what God wants of us. I have been Catholic all my life. But I feel that no matter what good I do, nothing good happens to me. I know we are to live for the eternal reward, but that doesn’t mean earthly life has to suck does it?

Hi there S.S.

I can honestly say that I identify with you.

Thank you for posting this, It helps to verbalise and to get feedback from others.

Let me share my thoughts on this subject. Stay with me, I have a tendency to go off in the deep end. These thoughts stem from my life experience on the subject.

I have been thinking that God is not as involved with us as everyone thinks that He is.

I believe that He is good, that he sent His Son down, and whatever the Bible says, happened…HOWEVER, I have come to think that He doesn’t involve Himself with us on an individual level.

It feels like Christianity is a one-sided relationship. To me, God is definitely a big-picture-person, if you know what I mean. God’s side of the relationship was done way back, with Israel in the O.T. and then with Jesus in the N.T. When Jesus ascended, the Holy spirit came down on the 12. That’s where God’s side ended. He left it there, and left it up to us to reciprocate.

If I look at the lives of non-Christians vs. Christians, it is apparent that we are all in the same boat. There are no favouritism here on this earth. One would think that if we are pious and followed God in His commands that it would go well with the individual, and they would prosper, and individual prayer requests would be answered, individually, and unequivocally, but even in Biblical times, only the select few had this kind of interaction. David, Abraham, Moses…the rest of them were just there, just people, following teachings.

It’s the same now…no matter what you do, and how hard you pray, we are no better off here than the guy who does not believe in God. The evidence is right there.

And, if you look at Jesus’ last words in the Bible, I can’t see how that is true today…not even the most pious, holy people within the Church, even inside the convents, not even of them are Jesus’ last words evident. It shows me that those last words were mostly given to the 12.

Sure, even the disciples didn’t have a lot of faith, Jesus spoke to them about that, and Peter sunk when he walked on the water, but the Holy Spirit changed that. They were given power from on High on Pentecost.
However, only them. The deeds that Jesus speak of in Mark 16, the only people who was ever able to do that, was the 12. As with the select few O.T. prophets.

Let’s look:

Mark 16
15 He said to them, "Go into the whole world and proclaim the gospel to every creature.
16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned.
17 These signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will drive out demons, they will speak new languages.
18 They will pick up serpents (with their hands), and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not harm them.

Luke 24
49 And (behold) I am sending the promise of my Father upon you; but stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high."

Acts 1
8 But you will receive power when the holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, throughout Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
9 When he had said this, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him from their sight.

I have come to believe this:
To be saved and be in Paradise with Jesus, we are to be baptised and believe in Him. This will save us. As per Mark 16:16. That is the crux of the Gospel. And to believe in Him means living a live pleasing to Him, following His teachings.

But, while we are on earth, we can’t expect any special treatment from God, not personally. Praying is not going to change His mind. His will is firm and set. The only thing that praying does is change us. Through prayer we conform our will to God’s will.
Jesus’ prayer in the garden is an example. Not my will but Your will be done.
The only effective prayers that I can see are:

1. “Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner. Please forgive my transgressions against you, I am heartily sorry and I will endeavour not to do it again, and love you more.”
2. “Your will be done, not mine”

But other than that, we are on our own. We are subject to His will for us and for Earth. We will be treated the same as any other person here and now. We have trials, and we have hardships and we are to go through them alone, but we are to go through them in a manner that will please God. Because, that is following His teachings and showing God we love him.

The only thing that sets us apart from them is when Jesus comes again for Judgement, we will be raised up due to our belief and baptism. They will not, due to their unbelief.

It really feels one sided…and, like I said in the beginning, in a way it is. God’s side was done waaay back and now it’s our turn.

I guess what I’m saying is that you are right, in a way.Life sucks, and it will and there is no alleviation for Christians, like we sometimes are taught. That is a hard thing to come to terms to…He will not help us in our everyday struggles and trials by direct intervention.
BUT we must live our lives pleasing to Him to be saved.

I hope I made sense, I’m also still a bit bitter about this realisation and trying to come to terms with it.

AC.

 

[Tic_Toc]

Dude, chill.

I’m pretty sure we’ve all been there. I am a cradle Catholic as well. At one point in my life, I thought I was an atheist. I didn’t really think God was out there, all that fun stuff.

I can get why you’d say you hate God; I was pretty mad at Him at one point, too.

Listen, though: you can’t expect stuff to just happen, even if you pray. You can pray, but you’re not going to instantly get a sign, or get a girlfriend, or have Mary appear to you in a vision. You have to be patient and just try to be the best person you can be. God wants us to be happy, but we have to find happiness for ourselves. He’s not going to drop happiness on us.

All I can say (and it might not help) is to keep praying, be honest with yourself, be open to accepting that maybe God isn’t who or what you thought he was originally, that what you want and what will make you happy isn’t what you thought it would be originally, and do what you know is right, and you’ll end up finding what you’re looking for. At least, it worked for me.

 

[Severus_Snape]

Dude, chill.

I’m pretty sure we’ve all been there. I am a cradle Catholic as well. At one point in my life, I thought I was an atheist. I didn’t really think God was out there, all that fun stuff.

I can get why you’d say you hate God; I was pretty mad at Him at one point, too.

Listen, though: you can’t expect stuff to just happen, even if you pray. You can pray, but you’re not going to instantly get a sign, or get a girlfriend, or have Mary appear to you in a vision. You have to be patient and just try to be the best person you can be. God wants us to be happy, but we have to find happiness for ourselves. He’s not going to drop happiness on us.

All I can say (and it might not help) is to keep praying, be honest with yourself, be open to accepting that maybe God isn’t who or what you thought he was originally, that what you want and what will make you happy isn’t what you thought it would be originally, and do what you know is right, and you’ll end up finding what you’re looking for. At least, it worked for me.

I know we don’t get things instantly, as I said, I was born Catholic, it’s not like I became Catholic yesterday and started asking for things. But it’s all a lie ‘ask and you shall receive’, sure, perhaps when I’m like 70 everything shall be received

Meh

 

[LilyM]

I know we don’t get things instantly, as I said, I was born Catholic, it’s not like I became Catholic yesterday and started asking for things. But it’s all a lie ‘ask and you shall receive’, sure, perhaps when I’m like 70 everything shall be received

Meh

The Rolling Stones said it very simply but very well:

“You can’t always get what you want
And if you try sometime you find …
You get what you need”

See God isn’t just a vending machine to chunk out whatever WE want on demand.

He deals out what’s good for us instead. Like our parents did when they made us eat our vegetables or wash behind our ears - even though we hated doing it and thought they were the most horrible meanies ever for making us.

Even Jesus pleaded for His suffering to be removed if possible. Both He and the Father knew deep down, though, that the suffering of Christ was needed for the redemption of humanity, so the Father permitted and Christ accepted the suffering for the greater good it could do.

You can do good with whatever resources you have right now, whatever situation you’re in right now - even the widow with only two mites to her name could do good with them by giving them to the Temple instead of spending 'em on herself. Your job is to figure out how, and not to moon around waiting for some mythical ideal (and yes, people with jobs and girlfriends still somehow manage to have lives every bit as sucky as yours).

You don’t want to be a mother teresa or a padre pio? You don’t want the devil to attack you? You don’t want to be spiritual? Then you don’t want Catholicism, clearly, except on your own terms - which terms render it almost meaningless.

Even these two great saints, at the beginning, most assuredly had huge struggles with what God was calling them to do. Mother Teresa’s was lifelong - decades of spiritual dryness. She left a very nice teaching job in a posh private school - you can be morally certain it must’ve hurt to do that. Padre Pio was frequently PHYSICALLY battered and bruised from his struggles with the devil - had a black eye for two weeks from one encounter. You really think in a million years that that didn’t hurt?

Following God is going to hurt, my friend, no two ways about it. And it’s going to cost - it’s going to require you to take up your cross and lay down your life in a figurative if not a literal sense. As another pithy saying goes, ‘no Cross, no crown’. And how could you do less for the Lord who did so much more for you?

In the end, if you run away from what God wants for you you’re going to be like Jonah - and we all know nothing went right for him when he tried to run away from God!

 

[Christy_Beth]

I’m a convert, but I understand the feeling negetive about God. I am mentally ill. For many years I harbored hate against God because I believed He had made me this way. If He were God, then I shouldn’t be/feel this way. If He loved me, why did He seem distant?

I still struggle with my feelings, But I have come to accept that God allows this for a time. I know it would be so much easier if God would answer our petitions when we made them. How many times did I cry out to God, saying I couldn’t handle life the way it is/was.

I think the last time I really struggled with this (not that I haven’t since, but not as badly) was back in 2004. At the apartment complex I was living in at the time, there were alot of bad stuff going on. A LOT of harrassment. And no matter what I did, I was basically told to shut up with put up with it. It got to the point that I had to spend a month on a psych ward at the VA. I have to admit that I’m still trying to get back into the good habits I left behind. Like going to mass every weekend.

God does answer pray in this day and age. It’s just our expectations have to change. He won’t give up million dollar answers for dime size prayers. Besides, He probably has better plans for us in the near future. I have learned to look ahead. Well, most of the time. I know that I may get answer to prayers eventually. But it IS hard to wait. He provides comfort to get us through these times.

I hope this helps. I’m not so good at expaining things like this. One bible verse has helped me plenty of times. Hebrews 11:1
“Faith is the realization of what is hoped for and evidence of things not seen.” When I’m really down, this will often come to mind. It helps me get my eyes focused back on God where they should always be.

 

[Tollers]

It has to all begin with being honest with yourself. How can we be honest with God if we are not first honest with ourselves? Is there a nagging doubt about how honest you are being in assessing where you are as both a human and a Christian?

It might be time, instead of blaming God, to take a good hard look at yourself instead. If there are things you don’t like about yourself, start working on them. Pick something small and relatively easy to begin with. As they say, every journey begins with a single step.

What’s the alternative? To sit around feeling sorry for ourselves? To blame God? Eventually to even hate a God we don’t believe exists (how logical could that possibly be?).

 

[Severus_Snape]

The Rolling Stones said it very simply but very well:

“You can’t always get what you want
And if you try sometime you find …
You get what you need”

See God isn’t just a vending machine to chunk out whatever WE want on demand.

He deals out what’s good for us instead. Like our parents did when they made us eat our vegetables or wash behind our ears - even though we hated doing it and thought they were the most horrible meanies ever for making us.

Even Jesus pleaded for His suffering to be removed if possible. Both He and the Father knew deep down, though, that the suffering of Christ was needed for the redemption of humanity, so the Father permitted and Christ accepted the suffering for the greater good it could do.

You can do good with whatever resources you have right now, whatever situation you’re in right now - even the widow with only two mites to her name could do good with them by giving them to the Temple instead of spending 'em on herself. Your job is to figure out how, and not to moon around waiting for some mythical ideal (and yes, people with jobs and girlfriends still somehow manage to have lives every bit as sucky as yours).

You don’t want to be a mother teresa or a padre pio? You don’t want the devil to attack you? You don’t want to be spiritual? Then you don’t want Catholicism, clearly, except on your own terms - which terms render it almost meaningless.

Even these two great saints, at the beginning, most assuredly had huge struggles with what God was calling them to do. Mother Teresa’s was lifelong - decades of spiritual dryness. She left a very nice teaching job in a posh private school - you can be morally certain it must’ve hurt to do that. Padre Pio was frequently PHYSICALLY battered and bruised from his struggles with the devil - had a black eye for two weeks from one encounter. You really think in a million years that that didn’t hurt?

Following God is going to hurt, my friend, no two ways about it. And it’s going to cost - it’s going to require you to take up your cross and lay down your life in a figurative if not a literal sense. As another pithy saying goes, ‘no Cross, no crown’. And how could you do less for the Lord who did so much more for you?

In the end, if you run away from what God wants for you you’re going to be like Jonah - and we all know nothing went right for him when he tried to run away from God!

I’d hardly use the Rolling Stones as a basis for testimony I love their music, but I fail to see how this has to do with Catholicism.

Figure out how? All your statements contradict the Bible. Does the Bible tell us to worry about and figure out how? Does it not say to let the Father deal with it? It explicitly says ‘ask and you shall receive’ and other things along the lines of ‘ask in prayer and it shall be given to you’ and other stuff like seek first the kingdom of God bla bla bla, for how long? I am not going to spend eternity seeking, don’t give me ‘mythical’ all this stuff is in the Bible.

If anything it’s God’s job to figure out how, and for us to be patient and wait, so this is all incorrect.

“Following God is going to hurt, my friend, no two ways about it. And it’s going to cost - it’s going to require you to take up your cross and lay down your life in a figurative if not a literal sense. As another pithy saying goes, ‘no Cross, no crown’. And how could you do less for the Lord who did so much more for you?”

I agree it is going to hurt, but there is only so much one can take before they give up, and that’s essentially where I am at. I’ve done all that the Bible has said, I’ve even fasted occasionally and I’ve given up on certain things for months at a time, don’t give me your rubbish as if I have done something wrong.

I have great respect for Padre Pio and Mother Theresa, GREAT respect, but my point was, I don’t want to be like them. WHy? I don’t want to be celibate, that’s the main thing. I prefer physical injuries over anything else. Padre Pio was a frail man so any little thing injured him quite a bit, that’s the thing. I don’t care much for black eyes, I don’t have problem with physical injuries, Padre Pio suffered with ill health all his life. God always allows Satan to attack us where we are weakest and then wants us to pray to him.

That sounds remarkably like a parent doing something behind the child’s back and then wanting the child to come running back home crying telling their tales of woe.

I agree though that everyone’s life is sucky, but some people’s lives are worse than others, there is no doubt about that, I don’t claim to have the worst life in the world, by no means.

 

[Severus_Snape]

It has to all begin with being honest with yourself. How can we be honest with God if we are not first honest with ourselves? Is there a nagging doubt about how honest you are being in assessing where you are as both a human and a Christian?

It might be time, instead of blaming God, to take a good hard look at yourself instead. If there are things you don’t like about yourself, start working on them. Pick something small and relatively easy to begin with. As they say, every journey begins with a single step.

What’s the alternative? To sit around feeling sorry for ourselves? To blame God? Eventually to even hate a God we don’t believe exists (how logical could that possibly be?).

Oh I believe in God alright, I’m not saying I don’t. I believe he exists now as much as I did when I was fully into the faith. I just hate him now.

 

[catharina]

Oh I believe in God alright, I’m not saying I don’t. I believe he exists now as much as I did when I was fully into the faith. I just hate him now.

You say here and in your profile that you’re Catholic so what does it mean that you’re “not fully in the faith?” My greatest concern for you (and I am praying for you and others who share your views) is that it’s all too likely that you might be forgetting to be thankful - as in “Give thanks always, in everything give thanks.” This has to be our starting point with God if we expect God to work in us. Food, clothing, shelter? You have that? Good health? Some education? You seem to have computer access? All of these things are gifts that are not shared by most people alive today. Whe we take blessings for granted as if we deserve them it’s hard to imagine that we can believe we should be demanding more - if we aren’t yet thankful for what’s been given to us. There’s no doubt for me that Faith is the greatest gift we receive from God.

Do we thank Him for the gift of faith? St. Paul has written “All depends on faith. Everything is grace.” If your attitude toward God is based in negativity then you must give off a very negative, abrupt, impatient mood in your interactions.

That could be the stumbling block in your search for jobs, gf-s, satisfaction, etc…

 

[catharina]

According to Dr. Phillip M. Harter of Stanford University, if we could shrink the earth’s population to fit into a village of exactly 100 people, with all human ratios remaining the same, it would look something like the following:

“There would be

57 Asians
21 Europeans
14 would be from the Western Hemisphere, both north and south
8 Africans
52 would be female
48 would be male
70 would be non-white
30 would be white
70 would be non-Christian
30 would be Christian
89 would be heterosexual
11 would be homosexual
6 people would own 60% of the world’s wealth
and all 6 would be from the USA
80 people would live in substandard housing
70 people would be unable to read and write
50 people would suffer from malnutrition
1 person would be near birth
1 person would be near death
1 person (yes, only one) would have a college education
1 person would own a computer”

Numbers quoted from research study by Phillip M. Harter, MD, Stanford University

Year of his research report is unknown to me…I’d guess, maybe 15 to 20 yrs ago. However, he is still teaching and practicing medicine as an Associate Professor of Surgery at Stanford University, Palo Alto California (as of 2003).

 

[Tollers]

My post was meant to be taken in general, rather than specific to you. Of course, the fact remains that making God the scapegoat for all our problems only makes the problems worse, because it hinders our taking a long, hard look at ourselves.

 

[Severus_Snape]

My post was meant to be taken in general, rather than specific to you. Of course, the fact remains that making God the scapegoat for all our problems only makes the problems worse, because it hinders our taking a long, hard look at ourselves.

I know there are problems with me, I don’t call myself faultless, but whatever it is, he doesn’t HELP. That’s the thing, nothing. NOTHING

Nvm, forget this is ever started.

And catherina, thanks for responding, but I fail to see what these numbers have to do with anything. There are people who don’t believe in God, and have a college education also supposed to thank him? When they may have been immoral, hated him, done everything against him and go to where they were by their own hard work and doing?

I guess there are plenty right? So this is rather sketchy, trying to thank God for everything that happens. If I thank God for all the good things, then I guess I should hate him for all the bad things, things always come in pairs, that’s the nature of this world. Good and evil, push and pull, attraction, repulsion, you may tell me to blame it on satan, but the point is God allows all the bs to happen.

 

[Tollers]

I certainly think that the “problem with pain” is the toughest field of apologetics. Most of the answers seem unconvincing.

For me, the best possibilities are found in Free Will. To be fully independent and actualized entities, we have to have the choice of being something other than “like unto God.” Otherwise we would have been little more than characters in a novel.

And “not like unto God” is what gives definitions. Beauty does not really exist without the possibility of ugly. Good is made real by the possibility of evil. We would not know the contentment of a warm fire and full belly if we did not know cold, bitter winds and gnawing hunger. Light and shadow make form and substance in art, and that works, for me, as an analogy of the spiritual.

I wonder if a God who can create a universe from nothing couldn’t have done a better job, but then I figure it’s possible that he had to relinquish a good bit of control if he were to allow Free Will. But even then he leaves us the possibility of salvation from our own errors.

And I think too, sometimes, of how some fears and anguish are diminished by time. Or how much sweeter would be the resurrection into a healthy body by a paraplegic in this life, than it would be to a person who had a healthy body in this life? And so on.

Well, I’ve rambled enough.

 

[catharina]

I know there are problems with me, I don’t call myself faultless, but whatever it is, he doesn’t HELP. That’s the thing, nothing. NOTHING

Nvm, forget this is ever started.

And catherina, thanks for responding, but I fail to see what these numbers have to do with anything. There are people who don’t believe in God, and have a college education also supposed to thank him? When they may have been immoral, hated him, done everything against him and go to where they were by their own hard work and doing?

I guess there are plenty right? So this is rather sketchy, trying to thank God for everything that happens. If I thank God for all the good things, then I guess I should hate him for all the bad things, things always come in pairs, that’s the nature of this world. Good and evil, push and pull, attraction, repulsion, you may tell me to blame it on satan, but the point is God allows all the bs to happen.

Yes, ALL are supposed to thank God and yet many do not know Him. For certain we who are graced with the gift of faith are expected to thank Him always. Health, comfort, shelter are not “givens” in this world and the numbers mean THAT. All true good comes from God and from God Alone whether “others” realize it or not. The behavior of others has no bearing on your response to grace unless you decide to let envy or greed motivate you. On a daily basis, or more likely many times a day, do you simply lift your heart to say “thank You, Lord” for ‘the fact that I can walk, can speak, can remember?’ Our relationship with God is dependent on mutual interaction. Before we send 5 yr-olds off to kindergarten, we expect that they will know how to say “please” and “thank you” at the appropriate times - and to mean it.

None of us is called on to judge God and find Him unworthy. Do you maybe have a habit of judging, as in who deserves this or that? It’s a losing game since only God knows such things.

 

[Tollers]

I think too concerning getting “no help” from God, That we might remember that he created Al Gore so that Al could create the internet so that you would have a place to ask your questions, vent your frustrations and possibly, possibly, pick up some little mustard seed of a notion that would grow into an answer?

 

[Severus_Snape]

None of us is called on to judge God and find Him unworthy. Do you maybe have a habit of judging, as in who deserves this or that? It’s a losing game since only God knows such things.

I have thanked God many times in my life for all the ‘good’. And I’ve meant it too.

I don’t have a habit of judging people, when I do however sometimes do it, I always stop immediately and say a line in my head that I had been taught to say to myself : ‘you wretched sinner, what if God judged you now too’

I don’t care if I go to hell either, infact I’d rather get it over with now, and I’m not talking about suicide.

 

[Severus_Snape]

I think too concerning getting “no help” from God, That we might remember that he created Al Gore so that Al could create the internet so that you would have a place to ask your questions, vent your frustrations and possibly, possibly, pick up some little mustard seed of a notion that would grow into an answer?

 

[catharina]

I certainly think that the “problem with pain” is the toughest field of apologetics. Most of the answers seem unconvincing.

For me, the best possibilities are found in Free Will. To be fully independent and actualized entities, we have to have the choice of being something other than “like unto God.” Otherwise we would have been little more than characters in a novel.

And “not like unto God” is what gives definitions. Beauty does not really exist without the possibility of ugly. Good is made real by the possibility of evil. We would not know the contentment of a warm fire and full belly if we did not know cold, bitter winds and gnawing hunger. Light and shadow make form and substance in art, and that works, for me, as an analogy of the spiritual.

I wonder if a God who can create a universe from nothing couldn’t have done a better job, but then I figure it’s possible that he had to relinquish a good bit of control if he were to allow Free Will. But even then he leaves us the possibility of salvation from our own errors.

And I think too, sometimes, of how some fears and anguish are diminished by time. Or how much sweeter would be the resurrection into a healthy body by a paraplegic in this life, than it would be to a person who had a healthy body in this life? And so on.

Well, I’ve rambled enough.

About the “problem with pain,” the meaning of sacrificial suffering, I give you Paul. I think this is considered to be the essence of the teaching of our united sufferings within the Mystical Body of Christ:

"Col 1:24–2:3

Brothers and sisters:
I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake,
and in my flesh I am filling up
what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ
on behalf of his Body, which is the Church,
of which I am a minister
in accordance with God’s stewardship given to me
to bring to completion for you the word of God,
the mystery hidden from ages and from generations past.