In Chicago, Pope Francis Agenda has a champion in Cupich

[SWolf]

I’ll repeat what I’ve posted in other threads: In my whole life, CAF is the ONLY place anyone ever linked boy altar servers with being prepared for the priesthood. I was an alter boy long before girls were permitted, and no priest, no parent, no teacher in my Catholic school, ever once mentioned that we were being “apprenticed” for the priesthood.

I now formally conclude that the concept of “apprenticeship” was conjured by Conservative/(big T) Traditional Catholics who are trying to hold on to the “good ol’ days,” that never existed in any real sense.

Therefore, based on the conclusion I now promulgate, this argument is henceforth null and void. Posters are no longer permitted to use it.

Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.

The 1994 letter:
ewtn.com/library/curia/cdwcomm.htm

1. The Holy See respects the decision adopted by certain Bishops for specific local reasons on the basis of the provisions of Canon 230 2. At the same time, however, the Holy See wishes to recall that it will always be very appropriate to follow the noble tradition of having boys serve at the altar. As is well known, this has led to a reassuring development of priestly vocations. Thus the obligation to support such groups of altar boys will always continue.

 

[on_the_hill]

The 1994 letter:
ewtn.com/library/curia/cdwcomm.htm

1. The Holy See respects the decision adopted by certain Bishops for specific local reasons on the basis of the provisions of Canon 230 2. At the same time, however, the Holy See wishes to recall that it will always be very appropriate to follow the noble tradition of having boys serve at the altar. As is well known, this has led to a reassuring development of priestly vocations. Thus the obligation to support such groups of altar boys will always continue.

I refuse that reality and substitute my own.

 

[boar2roar]

I’ll repeat what I’ve posted in other threads: In my whole life, CAF is the ONLY place anyone ever linked boy altar servers with being prepared for the priesthood. I was an alter boy long before girls were permitted, and no priest, no parent, no teacher in my Catholic school, ever once mentioned that we were being “apprenticed” for the priesthood.

I now formally conclude that the concept of “apprenticeship” was conjured by Conservative/(big T) Traditional Catholics who are trying to hold on to the “good ol’ days,” that never existed in any real sense.

Therefore, based on the conclusion I now promulgate, this argument is henceforth null and void. Posters are no longer permitted to use it.

Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.

Then you have a distinct lack of imagination or have a very small sphere of people who you talk to on this issue, They don’t tell kids its apprenticeship for priesthood because they don’t want to scare them off. They hope that some boys will start to like it up there and hopefully join the priesthood, really its the only recruitment/shadowing we got that a large amount of people take part in.

You have some crazy conspiracies formally concluding in your head if you think obvious things like that are masterminded by this group. If there was a role where kids could go to the fire house, ride down the pole, ride along with firemen in the car, and maybe turn on the water for the hose but they didn’t jump in with the men into the burning building and it wasn’t called firemen apprenticeship you’d be of the same opinion as you are on alter boys right.

Why are you talking like that do you think you sound funny?

 

[boar2roar]

So where does having female altar severs detract from what the Catholic mass is all about…receiving the body and blood of Jesus Christ as he commanded us. does it lessen our chances for our eternal salvation…does it alter the way we are expected to lead our lives faithful to the teachings of the church of Jesus Christ…can some one please point out where having female servers has been detrimental to the dogma of the Catholic Church as I came into the faith years well after vatican2 and now fear for my eternal soul because I have been mislead about female altar servers

It sets a major precedent and is a giant step forward for advocates for female priesthood. Except for that not too much.

 

[otjm]

It sets a major precedent and is a giant step forward for advocates for female priesthood. Except for that not too much.

Well, actually, no, it was not a giant step for anyone. The screwballs who keep beating the drum for a female priesthood were doing so long, long before Cupich was ever made bishop, let alone Archbishop, let alone sent to Chicago. And a good many of them are simply dying off. It is not an issue that is attracting the young, and it will sort itself out as time passes, and the groups grow smaller and smaller through attrition and death.

 

[KSU]

Yet you labeled the past 50 years of Roman Catholic liturgy as “horrible.”

Please explain, because your characterization is somewhat offensive.

It appears you didn’t actually read what I posted. Accordingly, you simply will have to go through life being somewhat offended.

Here is some reading on the topic for beginners; it may further offend you but enlighten others. We start with Cardinal George:

catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=23061

catholicculture.org/commentary/otc.cfm?id=591

catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=22904

en.radiovaticana.va/news/2014/11/24/card_burke_liturgy_at_the_heart_of_communion_with_christ/1112241

osservatoreromano.va/en/news/what-good-news-modern-man#.Uwd0VfRdV64

 

[sttcatherinefan]

First, I’ve never actually attended a clown Mass or another such Mass and I’ve been attending the OF Masses my entire life. So I’m utterly confused when I hear this. I guess my question to the person asking it is whether he or she has seen Archbishop Cupich’s Mass and whether he or she considers that irreverent? I don’t and many people have commented how beautiful it was. Cupich has his academic background in the liturgy, but comes from an appreciation of Vatican II.

Second, Cupich is more liberal than George but there is nothing to suggest that he is unorthodox. Of course, I never thought that Bernardin was unorthodox. There is a wide range of approaches and styles within what is considered orthodox.

Third, two of the women who served as altar servers commented on how honored and included they felt by Cupich’s gesture. This was a perfectly nice symbolic gesture that honored the work of female staff without discussing ordination. One way would be to make the unordained feel like equal partners in the Church and also to appoint women to non-traditional roles. Women still tend to be within certain spheres of the Church that have been considered more feminine like teaching or family ministry. There is nothing to suggest a woman couldn’t manage the archdioceses real estate holdings.

 

[ProVobis]

I guess my question to the person asking it is whether he or she has seen Archbishop Cupich’s Mass and whether he or she considers that irreverent? I don’t and many people have commented how beautiful it was.

I wondered myself as I was watching some of it. It seems as if at one point one of the young ladies was ready to crack up laughing when the Archbishop spoke to her. Maybe this was bothersome to some, I don’t know.

 

[Mike_Dye]

Chicago has the most restrictive gun laws in the nation already, to what result?

I support peace. I support pastors speaking about peace. I don’t support using social issues as a launching pad for agendas that are disconnected from truth.

Ever notice the cities with the most restrictive gun laws have the largest crime rates?

 

[boar2roar]

Well, actually, no, it was not a giant step for anyone. The screwballs who keep beating the drum for a female priesthood were doing so long, long before Cupich was ever made bishop, let alone Archbishop, let alone sent to Chicago. And a good many of them are simply dying off. It is not an issue that is attracting the young, and it will sort itself out as time passes, and the groups grow smaller and smaller through attrition and death.

What I said had nothing to do with Archbishop Cupich.

 

[on_the_hill]

Catholic Church as I came into the faith years well after vatican2 and now fear for my eternal soul because I have been mislead about female altar servers

It’s not entirely your fault. The Progressives started us down this slippery slope as recently as the 7th century A.D. when they started to allow the Rite of Reconciliation to be frequent and private instead of public and once in a lifetime.

I don’t know how Holy Mother the Church will ever survive this threat.

 

[on_the_hill]

Ever notice the cities with the most restrictive gun laws have the largest crime rates?

The chicken or the egg?

 

[LongingSoul]

The chicken or the egg?

Gun control really has to be a national issue since border control plays a big part in ensuring a gun free community. Where there is no controls such as on State, county or city borders and the only controls fall on local police… it is going to be a big battle to enforce the laws. Someone has to start the ball rolling though and good on places like Chicago for taking the stand, I say.

 

[sttcatherinefan]

I wondered myself as I was watching some of it. It seems as if at one point one of the young ladies was ready to crack up laughing when the Archbishop spoke to her. Maybe this was bothersome to some, I don’t know.

I’m not talking about the altar ladies, but the ceremony in general. I think that the people objecting to the female altar servers have issues with the ceremony in general. I thought that it was quite reverent and beautiful overall.

 

[otjm]

What I said had nothing to do with Archbishop Cupich.

Oh? Peebo, in post 45 asked where having a female altar server detracted from the Mass; you replied in post 60, and I replied to your post 60. You are right; you did not say anything about Archbishop Cupich, except that the issue of female altar servers came up because of his Mass.

 

[otjm]

Gun control really has to be a national issue since border control plays a big part in ensuring a gun free community. Where there is no controls such as on State, county or city borders and the only controls fall on local police… it is going to be a big battle to enforce the laws. Someone has to start the ball rolling though and good on places like Chicago for taking the stand, I say.

Chicago needs to take a lesson from the rioting in Ferguson. Several businesses were burned down by rioters; interestingly a white-owned gas station was left alone. Why? Because there were several young black men in front of it, armed with semi automatic weapons, and the rioters decided there were easier targets.

When asked why they were out in front of the gas station, one of the armed individuals said that the owner had been very fair, and had hired several of those protecting it, and they were not going to let rioters burn it down.

Several other businesses had civilians out in front and armed; those were also left alone - not only no burned down, but not even looted.

The police were totally unable to stop the burning and fairly helpless to stop the looters elsewhere.

Chicago tightens the laws, and the police are categorically unable to stop the carnage, all of which is being done by criminals. Given the stringency of the laws, and the seriousness of the punishments, the liberals fairy tale dream of peace through strict laws only leaves the innocent subject to the mercy of the gangs and other criminals. Liberals start the process of making laws for good reasons; they simply fail to take things to their logical conclusions.

 

[ProVobis]

I’m not talking about the altar ladies, but the ceremony in general. I think that the people objecting to the female altar servers have issues with the ceremony in general. I thought that it was quite reverent and beautiful overall.

To be fair, there were parts I thought were good, although my attention span is rather short. I was on the computer in another room doing some work. The ceremony pre-empted the local station programming so there was really nothing to compare it to. Holy Name Cathedral tends to bring out a lot of protesters. I stopped attending there a long time ago; it had nothing to do with the female servers.

 

[KSU]

To be fair, there were parts I thought were good, although my attention span is rather short. I was on the computer in another room doing some work. The ceremony pre-empted the local station programming so there was really nothing to compare it to. Holy Name Cathedral tends to bring out a lot of protesters. I stopped attending there a long time ago; it had nothing to do with the female servers.

Pro, just an observation: It’s a shame that we have to defend ourselves concerning the nonsense about female alter servers being attacked and objected to on this board.

That false accusation has been going on in this thread for some time-- it reminds me of the left’s trumped-up charge about the war-on-women-by-conservatives-thing. Forgotten is the fact that female alter servers came up in this thread only because it was noted by a poster that there were no male alter servers at Archbishop Cupich’s inaugural Mass; the unspoken question being, “was that part of the Archbishop’s progressive message” alleged by the author of the CRUX article in the OP, viz:

“…over the course of a two-day ceremony at Holy Name Cathedral this week, Cupich offered a message of his own both to Chicago Catholics and his brother bishops: the progressive wing of American Catholicism has a powerful new friend in one of America’s most important dioceses…at two services, Cupich quoted Pope Francis and called on the Church to engage the world while being open to change…There was no mention of abortion, or contraception, or gay marriage.”

In short, no one here attacked or objected to female alter servers. So what’s going on? Are we to be cowed into ignoring the fact that although the Church favors male servers over female servers for the reasons already discussed, the ultra-high visibility new Archbishop of Chicago at an ultra-high visibility Mass chose to go his own way?

 

[sttcatherinefan]

In short, no one here attacked or objected to female alter servers. So what’s going on? Are we to be cowed into ignoring the fact that although the Church favors male servers over female servers for the reasons already discussed, the ultra-high visibility new Archbishop of Chicago at an ultra-high visibility Mass chose to go his own way?

You said that no one is attacking female altar servers and then you criticized Cupich for having female altar servers at his Mass. And Cupich was sending a message; he wants women to feel more included in the Church, especially the Chicago Archdioceses. This is different from supporting the ordination of female priests. If he was in favor of the latter, there is no way that Cupich would have been appointed to such a high profile role.

I think that regardless of the “official” position of the Church, many women, myself included, feel that the Church still regards us as second-class Catholics. We feel the Church disapproves of the fact that some of us choose to have careers rather than just being stay-at-home mothers or that we are pigeonholed into traditional “feminine” roles in the Church like cleaning the altar linens or teaching Sunday school to six year olds.

 

[SWolf]

Chicago needs to take a lesson from the rioting in Ferguson. Several businesses were burned down by rioters; interestingly a white-owned gas station was left alone. Why? Because there were several young black men in front of it, armed with semi automatic weapons, and the rioters decided there were easier targets.

When asked why they were out in front of the gas station, one of the armed individuals said that the owner had been very fair, and had hired several of those protecting it, and they were not going to let rioters burn it down.

This is interesting. I believe you, but do you have a link to this story with more info?

It remains me of the Asian community during the LA riots.