In Excess of $37,000 yearly cost per household for Green New Deal pushed by AOC (Joe Biden's climate change task force co-chairwoman) and co-sponsored

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meltzerboy2 said:
Yes, it will be a gradual transition. However, when the door opens a little, it eventually opens all the way. I think of cable television.
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It only opens all the way when the technology is viable, otherwise we end up with great wastes of money, time and resources. What ought to drive the innovation are innovative developments not a manufactured crisis.

Look at California’s high speed rail system or forest management and moves to renewables. Their infrastructure is falling apart and the innovative energy sources are not living up to the hype. Germany can also attest to that.

I suppose devastating one’s state’s economy is a good plan if you want to bring in socialism and state control. Nothing like reducing everyone’s standard of living to poverty to persuade them that Big Brother is there to save them and provide for their rapidly-becoming-desperate needs

Green energy is being driven by ideological commitments, not actual innovation. The innovative technologies are contrived and hyped far beyond what they can and will deliver. This will get real messy in 10-20 years when the chickens come home to roost and they find a cold coop full of wolves and weasels.
 
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Peeps said:
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John_Martin:
Actually they are voting for him to have someone who will take the 220,000 deaths seriously, although it will probably double that before taking over from the current pretense can happen in January. The big issue is covid and pretending it went away last April.
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This is ridiculous
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Ridiculous to your opinion, but objectively not ridiculous; this is the reality of why Biden is being elected, why churches were empty at Easter even though we were told it would be over due to warm weather by a president who told Bob Woodward how deadly and infectious it was in early February. Blaming Dr Fauci is abandoning presidential responsibility. (And Biden will listen to him rather than hide and silence him.)

To Trump honesty means saying, “We’re all going to die!” (His panic claim). Therefore, “It’s going away; go about your business as usual. We have it all under control”.

Honesty means saying, “We are facing a strong virus, but fear is not the way we will go; we will dig in together, do what we need to do and defeat this; it is deadly but let’s do it!” (Feb 1, 2020)
 
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In other words, “There is nothing to fear but fear itself.” If only we had an FDR…
 
John_Martin said:
Honesty means saying, “We are facing a strong virus, but fear is not the way we will go; we will dig in together, do what we need to do and defeat this; it is deadly but let’s do it!” (Feb 1, 2020)
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Not ridiculous, and not just my opinion. A google search brings up dozens of papers written by CDC and other scientific agencies lauding the Trump Administration’s response to the COVID-19 crisis.

Here are a few links:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-trumps-letter-americas-governors/

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/con...strations-response-covid-19-pandemic-06232020

The following quotes are from the paper linked above:

Throughout the COVID-19 outbreak, the Administration has encouraged and worked collaboratively with diagnostic test manufacturers, commercial laboratories, public health laboratories, and professional societies to expand capacity and scale for existing nucleic acid testing platforms. Through the efforts of the Administration, the United States has developed a multilayered, multifaceted approach to testing that can provide the right test to the right person at the right time.

The identification and expansion of public and private sector testing infrastructure has been, and continues to be, a priority. One example of expanding testing infrastructure through public-private partnerships is the engagement of the Administration with well-known retailers that have a regional or nationwide footprint.

Another effort of the Administration to further support and expand the testing infrastructure in the United States has been strengthening the testing supply chain. The Administration has massively increased the availability of laboratory and testing supplies by engaging directly with distributers and manufacturers to increase production capacity through direct procurement, application of the Defense Production Act, formation of various public-private partnerships, and improved allocation criteria that ultimately help ensure that supplies meet the state’s needs and reach the locations where the supplies are needed most. In addition, validation of additional supply types has led to a dramatic broadening of available supplies and reagents.
 
I can personally testify as to the accuracy of the statements above about the Administration’s support of testing/COVID-19.

The only thing that we didn’t have in our lab was enough staff–and the President isn’t a magician–he can’t just create holograms of laborary professionals. I hope that Joseph Biden or Kamala Harris CAN work that kind of magic.

Lab staff worked extra days and lots of overtime to get everything done, and that was during a time when all non-essential health care services were closed down. Working in an inner-city hospital means that we still have a significant number every 24 hours of gunshots, stabbings, fires, beatings, rapes. We also had a large number of diabetic crises, strokes, heart attacks from the population of the poor in our city. So lab didn’t get to sit back and deal exclusively with COVID-19 cases. We were swamped during the early days of COVID and even more swamped when the non-essentials were allowed again (e.g., my knee replacement surgery).
 
Wasn’t the Defense Production Act rather late in coming? Of course better late than never.

Why the heck doesn’t Trump explain this to the American people in a calm manner, even reading from notes?
 
meltzerboy2 said:
Why the heck doesn’t Trump explain this to the American people in a calm manner, even reading from notes?
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I think Pres. Trump has trouble with making speeches that are concise and to the point. He tends to shift from subject to subject and get off track easily. I can identify–my husband is constantly asking me, "How did we get on this subject anyway?!)

Donald Trump was/is a businessman, after all, and probably paid people to write and make sales pitches, deliver good or bad news to his companies, etc.
 
John_Martin said:
Competition will keep prices down with Biden;
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Biden will eliminate competition through regulations. Biden will pick winners like he did in the past. It didn’t work then but we are expected to think it will now?
John_Martin said:
tax payments by corporations will just come from excess current profit
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Voluntarily?

It doesn’t work that way. The consumer pays all taxes either in cost, quality or quantity.

I think you know this.
John_Martin said:
Actually they are voting for him to have someone who will take the 220,000 deaths seriously,
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How serious were the Democratic governors by putting COVID in the nursing homes and the national Democrats not wanting to betray their China connections and stopping travel from the hotspot.
 
Every single policy that Biden talks about will help to place this country into a depression. He will push for single payer health care. Thousands employed in that industry will lose their jobs. He will shut down all oil and coal jobs. He will follow warren’s Accountable Capitalism Act. These companies will pack up and leave the usa.

I only hope the states step in call a article 5 convention of the states and put an end to the madness.
 
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1cthlctrth said:
For instance, policies that limit coal, oil and natural gas production in the United States will not stop the global consumption of these natural resources. Production will merely shift to places where the environmental standards are not as rigorous, making the planet worse off.
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This is the intent. You will hear “those that shall not be labeled” say we are leading the rest will follow or some other silly feel good stuff
 
They all are.

I just don’t see evidence that the parties for whom he’d “figurehead” advocate for single-payer. Private insurance is too big of a lobby.
 
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I think by the time COVID-19 is declared “under control” by the scientists and politicians of the world, the U.S. healthcare industry will be so far underwater—trillions of dollars in debt, or more likley, whatever comes after trillions of dollars in debt.

Much of the care for COVID-19 sufferers has been given to people who have/had no health care insurance other than Medicaid. No one in the U.S. is denied health care, especially those who have symptoms that could indicate COVID-19 infection.

All those long lines of tests–those are all being done for free–but they ARE NOT free! The people collecting the tests (I pity them–what a tough job!) are getting paid. The test kits were manufactured by people working in some factory (I think these are in the U.S., but I could be wrong), and the instruments that are used to perform the tests are manufactured in a factory–all these factory workers are getting paychecks for doing this work. No one is doing free manufacture of test kits or test instruments. And the lab techs (like me) who are doing these tests are getting paid, and the nurses, doctors, EMTS, respiratory therapists, etc as well as the support staff (custodians and housekeepers, hospital engineering staff, information systems staff, administrative staff, etc.) are all getting paid, most of us lots of overtime.

So much of this health care is being given away free because we in the U.S. do not send sick people away to suffer and die. There are charitable events to raise funds, but most of these funds are being used for food, fuel (during the winter, this will be a huge need for the poor), etc.–no one is raising money to pay Becton Dickinson or any other company for manufacturing lab instruments!

I think that when the final reckoning is done by the accountants, we will learn that our U.S. healthcare system is broke many times over and that all of us who work in this industry are being paid with funny money, worth about as much as Monopoly money.

I pity whoever is President at that time–it will be blamed on them. But what are they supposed to do–demand that no one receive health care unless they can pay cash for it? We’ll have a lot of healthy movie stars and professional athletes, and all the rest of us will be sick or dead.
 
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blackforest said:
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phil3:
He will push for single payer health care.
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Biden is unfortunately opposed to single payer health care. It would indeed be lovely if he follows through on his promise to stop providing corporate welfare to the oil industry.
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As opposed to corporate welfare for the renewable energy companies?

The only difference is that fossil fuels have a tested efficacy while renewables are positively going to be inefficient and costly beyond return or adequacy.

The push to renewables will be a California high speed rail debacle with orders of magnitude more long term damage.

Like Gov Newsome has thought through his pipe dreams - move to all electric vehicles by 2035 and get rid of fossil fuels when renewables won’t likely ever provide more than 15% of total energy needs.

We ought to begin suspecting that what Democrat governors really have in mind is undermining the US economy so as to support the rising CCP hegemony.
 
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on_the_hill said:
My children and I all suffer from asthma. Hmm…Fossil fuels or clean air …which to choose…my kids’ health or petrochemical shareholders…
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Maybe you should just move to a developed country,
they offer clean air and transportation
 
California uses 38% renewable energy, and Californians semi-regularly have electricity blackouts and hugely destructive fires.

In addition, the United States is currently energy-independent. If we move away from fossil fuels and fracking, millions of jobs will be lost, and we’ll again become dependent on foreign nations.

Do we want our kids to be forced to live in a California-like country?
 
Yet another study exposing the huge costs:


“Energy research firm Wood Mackenzie estimates that the greening of the U.S. power sector would cost approximately $35,000 per household and take 20 years. Wood Mackenzie estimate a total price tag of some $4.7 trillion, including around $1.5 trillion to add 1,600 gigawatts of wind and solar capacity and $2.5 trillion of investments in 900 gigawatts of storage. Another $700 billion is estimated for new high transmission power lines to move that electricity from sun-drenched deserts and windswept plains to the urban areas where it would be used,” they explained.

“At a minimum, the Green New Deal would impose large and recurring costs on American households. We conclude that among the 11 states analyzed, the GND would cost a typical household a minimum of $74,287 in the first year of implementation. For the subsequent four years, the average annual costs per household for 10 of the 11 states is $47,755, decreasing to $40,706 for ever after,” Kent Lassman and Daniel Turner reported.
 
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Yesm, that is exactly what “those that shall not be labeled” want.
 
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