In-laws baptized our children without permission

[MJJean]

We confronted them and they did admit to it but felt no remorse whatsoever. They felt they overstepped no boundary and said they would go back and do it again. They claim to feel “calmer” now that they are at least baptized.

Regarding the documentation of this so called baptism, I really do not know what they are planning on doing because we are currently awaiting an apology before we discuss anything.

And you are perfectly right. It is certainly not our choice to make and neither is it the grandparents. If my kids decide to become Catholic then wonderful! If not, then great! This choice apparently was already made by the people who decided to baptize them.

Their grandparents will certainly be a part of their life. For now, and until they apologize for going behind our backs, be it for love or anything else, they will only be allowed supervised visits. Nothing upsets a parent more than having set boundaries and rules being treated as if they are nothing.

If you’re interested in getting that apology and having a warmer relationship I’d say contact their priest yourself and explain the situation. If the priest explains to them why they were wrong they may be more willing to apologize and less likely to overstep bounds when it comes to religion, at least.

I’d also ask the priest to record the baptism. If one or more of the kids do decide to become members of the Church or another Christian denomination it might be important for them to have proof of their baptism. Especially if their intent to be Christian doesn’t come for many years and those who know of the baptism have passed on. My mother passed unexpectedly when I was in my early twenties. If it wasn’t for her leaving me my baptism certificate I would have had no proof of being baptized. No one else knew for sure if I’d been baptized or would have been able to tell me which church performed the rite.

 

[1ke]

Hey, that leads to a question: Is it a sin if I never tell my sister-and-brother-in-law that my MIL secretly baptized their daughter?

I urge you to bring that to your pastor and ask him what you should do.

Your MIL really should report the baptism and have the baptismal record accurate.

 

[coptsoldier]

I agree.

This same issue came up in my family (coincidentally, it was the subject of my first post on CAF). My wife and I suspected that my MIL would surreptitiously baptize our niece (her granddaughter) because the girl’s mother (my wife’s sister) rejected the Church, became an atheist and then converted to Judaism. Her husband is Jewish.

Sure enough, my wife mentioned it to her mom, and her mom gave her a smirk, a wink, and a nod. In other words, my MIL **did **secretly baptize the baby. The girl’s parents have never found out.

I’m sure that my MIL never reported the secret baptism to a priest. She is a very conservative Catholic with pre-Vatican II leanings—but only so far as she agrees with it.

Hey, that leads to a question: Is it a sin if I never tell my sister-and-brother-in-law that my MIL secretly baptized their daughter?

Yes it is sin. I would speak to your priest about this matter.

 

[Rau]

…
We confronted them and they did admit to it but felt no remorse whatsoever. They felt they overstepped no boundary and said they would go back and do it again. They claim to feel “calmer” now that they are at least baptized.
…

Perhaps your in-laws will take up a bit of child-minding and secretly baptize the neighbourhood kids. If they feel so comfortable with their actions in respect of your children, why not in respect of others?

One wonders what your in-laws felt they were achieving with a secret baptism of toddlers being brought up in a non-Catholic household? Can it be the case that some of us who fail to be born to Catholic parents are doomed as a consequence of that chance happening, and those secretly baptised by an even more unusual chance happening - are saved?

 

[cornbread_r2]

Are the OP’s children now obligated to give assent to church doctrines and obey canon law by virtue of their baptisms? If they are and fail to do so, aren’t they judged more harshly than persons who were never baptized into the Catholic church?

 

[EasterJoy]

Are the OP’s children now obligated to give assent to church doctrines and obey canon law by virtue of their baptisms? If they are and fail to do so, aren’t they judged more harshly than persons who were never baptized into the Catholic church?

Technically, if their baptism is valid they are just as Catholic as any other Catholic and have the same obligations as any other Catholic, but the Lord can be depended upon to judge each one justly. None of us will be judged more harshly than we deserve.

 

[cornbread_r2]

Technically, if their baptism is valid they are just as Catholic as any other Catholic and have the same obligations as any other Catholic, but the Lord can be depended upon to judge each one justly. None of us will be judged more harshly than we deserve.

If the children are informed of their baptisms and their obligations as Catholics at some point in the future and if they decline to live up to those obligations, then won’t they be judged as apostates? As I understand it, apostates are judged pretty harshly.

 

[Rau]

If the children are informed of their baptisms and their obligations as Catholics at some point in the future and if they decline to live up to those obligations, then won’t they be judged as apostates? As I understand it, apostates are judged pretty harshly.

Judgement by God is not comparable to the judgements that gives rise to a speeding ticket. Exceed the limit, you get the ticket - the quality of your driver training, your parental guidance your natural attributes are not relevant. God sees all and judges accordingly.

 

[manualman]

If the children are informed of their baptisms and their obligations as Catholics at some point in the future and if they decline to live up to those obligations, then won’t they be judged as apostates? As I understand it, apostates are judged pretty harshly.

God, thankfully, never went to law school. Therefore, He’s still trustworthy and just!

 

[David011]

David,
I hope you will forgive me for speaking my mind, but I feel my experience may be of interest.
I didn’t baptize my oldest son, because I belonged to a denominational church at that time, and they believed in dedication only. So he was dedicated to the Lord, which only meant that his parents promised to raise him in the (Christian) church.

You are no longer practicing Catholics for personal reasons, which sounds like you don’t believe what the church teaches. That may change someday. But the chance to teach your children about the faith while they are young will not come again.
I hope you will reconsider your position, and forgive the grandparents for overstepping your boundaries. What they did was surely wrong, but you can see they did it out of love.

Thank you for sharing. But logically speaking, why on Earth am I going to raise my children in a faith I don’t believe to be true? It doesn’t matter to me that my in-laws baptized them Catholic - they could have been Mormon for all I care- the point is it was done without our consent. Like I said before, I will not be forbidding them from seeing the children, they will simply no longer be looking after them without my wife or I supervising.

 

[David011]

If you’re interested in getting that apology and having a warmer relationship I’d say contact their priest yourself and explain the situation. If the priest explains to them why they were wrong they may be more willing to apologize and less likely to overstep bounds when it comes to religion, at least.

I’d also ask the priest to record the baptism. If one or more of the kids do decide to become members of the Church or another Christian denomination it might be important for them to have proof of their baptism. Especially if their intent to be Christian doesn’t come for many years and those who know of the baptism have passed on. My mother passed unexpectedly when I was in my early twenties. If it wasn’t for her leaving me my baptism certificate I would have had no proof of being baptized. No one else knew for sure if I’d been baptized or would have been able to tell me which church performed the rite.

Thank you but I’m certainly not looking into making anything more official. My in-laws baptized them, why do I need to ensure that it is recorded? Right now an apology on their part would be their first step, but that doesn’t even begin the process of regaining our trust. We’re not going to have our kids raised Catholic behind our backs.

If my children do decide to become catholic in the future couldn’t they just go through RCIA, if the baptism doesn’t get recorder and it’s as if it never happened?

 

[Elizium23]

However the baptism did happen and there is a canonical obligation to have it properly recorded now, while the ministers and witnesses are still alive to attest to it.

 

[Magdalen2013]

If my children do decide to become catholic in the future couldn’t they just go through RCIA, if the baptism doesn’t get recorder and it’s as if it never happened?

Failing to have the baptism recorded does not make it “as if it never happened.”

You can’t undo a baptism, it is permanent. The proper recording of it would save your children some trouble down the road should they decide to enter RCIA. As an RCIA candidate I had to contact the Methodist church I was baptized at for a letter showing the date I was baptized and the minister conducting the baptism.

 

[MJJean]

Thank you but I’m certainly not looking into making anything more official. My in-laws baptized them, why do I need to ensure that it is recorded? Right now an apology on their part would be their first step, but that doesn’t even begin the process of regaining our trust. We’re not going to have our kids raised Catholic behind our backs.

If my children do decide to become catholic in the future couldn’t they just go through RCIA, if the baptism doesn’t get recorder and it’s as if it never happened?

As Catholics, we believe that baptism leaves an permanent mark on the soul and can only be performed once. Many other Christian denominations believe the same. For religious purposes, being baptized and having no proof is problematic. I was asked to bring our priest my baptism certificate when I joined RCIA. I knew I was baptized, but I had nothing other than the certificate to tell me when, where, and who performed the rite. That information is required on Church forms.

If they were to grow up not knowing they have already been baptized they could participate in an invalid baptism. If they suspect they have already been baptized because they remember hearing about how grandma and grandpa baptized them, but have no proof, then they would receive a conditional baptism. Either way, it’s simpler to have record of the baptism now and save them the trouble later should they decide to become Catholic or members of another Christian faith. It’s not like recording the baptism obligates you to anything. As you are not practicing, from your point of view, it’s just a piece of paper on file with the Church and a certificate to put in the kids baby book or memory box.

Not to mention, the grandparents will be passing away someday. I fell away from Christianity in my teens and didn’t return until this past year when I was nearly 38. My mother died with I was 20. I kept my infant baptism certificate because it was a tie to her and to the Christian cultural history of my ancestors. It was also a paper that said without the words how much my mother loved me. She worried for my eternal soul and about something happening to me, so her beliefs lead to her baptizing me out of that love and concern. No matter that I was Pagan or Atheist or Agnostic over the years and for a time believed Christianity in general to be bunk, that certificate spoke to me of a mothers love.

Someday, when the grandparents are gone from this world it might bring your children a sense of connection to them and those who came before them to have that baptism certificate. Seeing proof that can be touched and felt that their grandparents loved them and were concerned for them might bring them a sense of peace and comfort.

However the baptism did happen and there is a canonical obligation to have it properly recorded now, while the ministers and witnesses are still alive to attest to it.

Yup. I don’t know if you and your wife would be obligated to report it, but the parents certainly are. And, like I said before, if you and your wife cannot get through to them that what they did was out of line and wrong perhaps the priest they report the baptism to could. Once they understand that they were in the wrong for multiple reasons they would probably be more willing to apologize and to tread more carefully in the future.

 

[Rau]

…"…why on Earth am I going to raise my children in a faith I don’t believe to be true?..

May I ask…which is the faith you do believe to be true?

 

[phillylawyer]

For the record, what the grandparents did actually makes them bad catholics, not “overboard” catholics. They’ve reduced baptism to something akin to superstition!

Sacraments are not superstitions. We do not believe that we have the ability to manipulate God into doing our bidding. That’s what they tried to do.

Instead, sacraments are gifts of Grace from God to man. Baptism is open to children precisely under the condition that the children are understood to be raised in the faith. These people did the kids a grave injustice. They tried to force God to over-rule you as parents. It’s too bad people act under such little understanding of the faith.

Sorry you had to go through this. Sure didn’t help the cause of Christ in your hearts, did it? They probably really thought they meant well and don’t realize what an abuse they committed. Sadly, an awful lot of catholics fall into superstition in areas where we are called to have faith.

This is an excellent point! I was going to say something similar, but you worded it in a much more clear and precise way than I would have.

 

[on_the_hill]

Technically, if their baptism is valid they are just as Catholic as any other Catholic and have the same obligations as any other Catholic, but the Lord can be depended upon to judge each one justly. None of us will be judged more harshly than we deserve.

This is an interesting point. My nephew was Baptized in the Church, but since then his father (raised Lutheran) led his family to the Presbyterian church when the boy was very young. His younger sister was baptized in the Presbyterian church.

Nephew is now 14, and has never received any sacraments beyond Baptism. My mother told me that not long ago the two of them were discussing religion, and she remarked that he is Catholic. He said, “I am?” In other words, he’s spent his whole life not knowing.

Who’s to blame? For one, my sister, because she was a practicing Catholic until her husband led them away. For two, her husband, because he promised me that he would never ask my sister to leave the Church. For three, me, because I’m the boy’s Godfather.

Because of the split, we never discuss religion, so I never paid attention to the nephew’s religious upbringing. Admittedly, I failed in my duties.

 

[on_the_hill]

Thank you but I’m certainly not looking into making anything more official. My in-laws baptized them, why do I need to ensure that it is recorded? Right now an apology on their part would be their first step, but that doesn’t even begin the process of regaining our trust. We’re not going to have our kids raised Catholic behind our backs.

If my children do decide to become catholic in the future couldn’t they just go through RCIA, if the baptism doesn’t get recorder and it’s as if it never happened?

I feel for ya. If it were me, I’d be livid. I fully understand their desire and motivation, but it’s a deep betrayal of you and your trust.

I pray that your family can heal and pull back together.

 

[David011]

As Catholics, we believe that baptism leaves an permanent mark on the soul and can only be performed once. Many other Christian denominations believe the same. For religious purposes, being baptized and having no proof is problematic. I was asked to bring our priest my baptism certificate when I joined RCIA. I knew I was baptized, but I had nothing other than the certificate to tell me when, where, and who performed the rite. That information is required on Church forms.

If they were to grow up not knowing they have already been baptized they could participate in an invalid baptism. If they suspect they have already been baptized because they remember hearing about how grandma and grandpa baptized them, but have no proof, then they would receive a conditional baptism. Either way, it’s simpler to have record of the baptism now and save them the trouble later should they decide to become Catholic or members of another Christian faith. It’s not like recording the baptism obligates you to anything. As you are not practicing, from your point of view, it’s just a piece of paper on file with the Church and a certificate to put in the kids baby book or memory box.

Someday, when the grandparents are gone from this world it might bring your children a sense of connection to them and those who came before them to have that baptism certificate. Seeing proof that can be touched and felt that their grandparents loved them and were concerned for them might bring them a sense of peace and comfort.

Yup. I don’t know if you and your wife would be obligated to report it, but the parents certainly are. And, like I said before, if you and your wife cannot get through to them that what they did was out of line and wrong perhaps the priest they report the baptism to could. Once they understand that they were in the wrong for multiple reasons they would probably be more willing to apologize and to tread more carefully in the future.

Thanks, but no thanks. If my in-laws wish to have this recorded, I can’t and won’t do anything to stop them, but i will not be doing anything on my part to have this done. I really don’t see why I should especially if has no real meaning to me. It’s not as if this is going to stop the kids from being or becoming Catholic in the future, it will just make things a little longer. If they wish to become baptized in another church, this baptism will not stop them either. The children will certainly continue to see their grandparents, for goodness sakes they are my wife’s parents! We are slightly angry (mostly annoyed) at them because they are trying to force their beliefs on us when we have clearly stated what our boundaries are, but we will never cut ties with them. The children don’t need a certificate to tell them they are loved. If we receive a certificate then fine, it will just go in their baby book and we’ll let the kids know grandma and grandpa did a naughty thing behind mom and dad’s back. I’m sure they will have other things as well as memories to remember them by.

Until they learn their place, my in-laws will not be looking after the children while we are working, that is all. They can come visit them as many times as they want, provided I or my wife are there. We will still be having Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners with them as well as any other family activities. For now they will be staying with my parents until my in-laws get over their grief of their grand kids not being raised Catholic.

 

[David011]

May I ask…which is the faith you do believe to be true?

Thank you for asking but that is not what I came here to discuss.