In need of relationship advice

[Lou2U]

I believe there has to be a reason for this relationship. Whether it be to gain knowledge about knowing someone on a more personal level, or learning something about yourself.

People have told me the same thing you are telling me, though. She might be immature and manipulative. But she needs someone to love her. Maybe that’s me. Maybe I can’t meet her on the level she needs. But I have to try my best.

I admit, I have thought about breaking up. She has too.

I have also thought I have been leading her on.

But to be honest, we haven’t even really begun to date date yet. To me, dating is spending time with the person in person. I feel I’d be able to make a better judgement of her and the situation in person.

Besides, love is patient. How patient? I’m not sure. **But, as long as she’s happy, I’ll keep at it. **

At the very least, she has taught me how to love more. So it’s not a total loss.

Thank you for your reply.

Best.

-Justin

It isn’t your job to love her because she needs someone to. It isn’t your job to make her happy because she needs someone to make her happy. It isn’t your job to be available at all hours for her to talk to you. It isn’t fair to you to hide your beliefs because she will incorrectly assume a different motive and become upset.

It is her job to love herself and it is her job to make herself happy. You might be able to do both of these things but if she can’t do it herself, it’s a lost cause. She is manipulative and incredibly immature. It isn’t possible for you to drop everything whenever she needs you and if you can’t explain that to her without her jumping to conclusions your relationship is not a healthy one. If you can’t explain why you want to wait until marriage to have sex, and why you want to wait to marry her in the first place, then your relationship is an unhealthy one.

I’ve seen on these boards that dating is discerning a person for marriage. If you are already having problems before you’ve even properly dated, I don’t think there’s much point to moving forward. There is something to be said for waiting and being patient but if it comes with pretending you are okay with the issues and ignoring anything you don’t like, that’s not patience, that’s dangerous. Communication is the most important part of any relationship.

Don’t lead her on. Be honest, and if she can’t accept your reasoning for how you feel and why, I think it would be best to call time.

I’ve just read your post again, and I think you have a bit of a “saving people” thing going on. You say she may be manipulative and immature but she needs someone to love her. No. She is manipulative and immature. She wants you to feel as though she needs you so you don’t leave her on her own. What you are reflecting is that she can’t make herself happy on her own. This doesn’t mean it is down to you to do it. That is pressure, too much pressure for you. It isn’t your job to love her because she needs it. If you love her, you should love her for her, not because she needs you to.

You shouldn’t try to save people like this. You will get hurt The best thing you can do is to encourage her to recognise it in herself and for her to get some professional help. If she can’t recognise it, your relationship is going to be harder than any relationship should be. I seriously think you should take a step back and consider your motives and hers for this relationship.

Lou

 

[Trident_H]

It isn’t your job to love her because she needs someone to. It isn’t your job to make her happy because she needs someone to make her happy. It isn’t your job to be available at all hours for her to talk to you. It isn’t fair to you to hide your beliefs because she will incorrectly assume a different motive and become upset.

It is her job to love herself and it is her job to make herself happy. You might be able to do both of these things but if she can’t do it herself, it’s a lost cause. She is manipulative and incredibly immature. It isn’t possible for you to drop everything whenever she needs you and if you can’t explain that to her without her jumping to conclusions your relationship is not a healthy one. If you can’t explain why you want to wait until marriage to have sex, and why you want to wait to marry her in the first place, then your relationship is an unhealthy one.

I’ve seen on these boards that dating is discerning a person for marriage. If you are already having problems before you’ve even properly dated, I don’t think there’s much point to moving forward. There is something to be said for waiting and being patient but if it comes with pretending you are okay with the issues and ignoring anything you don’t like, that’s not patience, that’s dangerous. Communication is the most important part of any relationship.

Don’t lead her on. Be honest, and if she can’t accept your reasoning for how you feel and why, I think it would be best to call time.

I’ve just read your post again, and I think you have a bit of a “saving people” thing going on. You say she may be manipulative and immature but she needs someone to love her. No. She is manipulative and immature. She wants you to feel as though she needs you so you don’t leave her on her own. What you are reflecting is that she can’t make herself happy on her own. This doesn’t mean it is down to you to do it. That is pressure, too much pressure for you. It isn’t your job to love her because she needs it. If you love her, you should love her for her, not because she needs you to.

You shouldn’t try to save people like this. You will get hurt The best thing you can do is to encourage her to recognise it in herself and for her to get some professional help. If she can’t recognise it, your relationship is going to be harder than any relationship should be. I seriously think you should take a step back and consider your motives and hers for this relationship.

Lou

Bullseye. Dead center.

 

[Monica4316]

I think its very prevalent today to have relationships to feel loved. But I don’t think such a person is ready for a relationship. Once you don’t feel you NEED one, then I think you are ready, because then you can love the person more selflessly instead of it being some way to find a sense of fulfilment. If a person is in a relationship for that, they need to find God first. We were created to find happiness in Him, and of course before we find that, we look in other places. Such a relationship would always be needy and never ready for marriage. That’s just my opinion.

 

[LethalMouse]

I think its very prevalent today to have relationships to feel loved. But I don’t think such a person is ready for a relationship. Once you don’t feel you NEED one, then I think you are ready, because then you can love the person more selflessly instead of it being some way to find a sense of fulfilment. If a person is in a relationship for that, they need to find God first. We were created to find happiness in Him, and of course before we find that, we look in other places. Such a relationship would always be needy and never ready for marriage. That’s just my opinion.

I agree in essence but I think we as a culture overemphasize the not needing someone.

In that for example if all humans save me were gone tomorrow, I can live. I can farm, hunt and make things sure.

But going to a movie and ordering a pizza are highly wonderful.

I don’t “need” these things in the pure literal sense… but I need movies and pizza… I do because they are way more awesome than the alternative.

We sometimes make it so that it sounds as though we are not “ready” until we are so independent we can hardly live with someone cramping our style.

Though in this case it is highly possible her needyness is at issue, on the same token feeding it via nonconfrontation and confusion can lead one to habit. Much as those who sometimes live without movies and pizza find the world a less lovely place via those things. And how no one wants to go to jail but enough time spent there and people sometimes off themselves upon freedom because they can’t handle it.

We should be careful to cast the idea that enjoyment and want are always true “need” as true need is usually from a place of emotional issue vs completion with one’s other half.

I am reminded of a tv show plot where an older man wanted to become a transexual woman. It was stated by his preacher that he was seeking to “complete” himself apart from his wife as her being his flesh was his outlet to his feminine side and visa versa.

And given our world of independence and the tendency to these disorders… I see much value in that advice.

 

[SilverShadow22]

Well… Yes, and no, on pretty much every opinion presented here.

Yes, LD is hard. We work with it. And we’re meeting again soon, and I’m planning to move closer, not just for him, but for me. I’m not exactly tied where I’m at.

Wanting to be the rescuer is normal male instinct; don’t squash it too much, but don’t be afraid to expect some participation on her part. After all, even Rapunzel had to braid her hair and let it down.

Also, I agree with LM. We should all be ‘able’ to live on our own… But if it wasn’t objectively nicer to do it WITH someone… Why would we bother to pair up? (By this I mean more than having sex for mere enjoyment.)

My situation is hard to explain… I needed to feel loved, but not quite the way the OP is describing. I knew everything in theory, the true definition of love, the purpose of marriage, why chastity until, etc. But it all seemed so distant… Floating in a place void of context, a theory without proof, something I believed because it was logical, not because it had the weight of reality.

So it was all there. But I had no confidence… I put on my makeup and picked my clothes and did the best I could, but I didn’t really think anyone would be particularly impressed with me. I’m ok looking… My weight wasn’t too bad… I do know how to pick ‘nice’ outfits, even though I can’t always afford to… I was and am merely average.

And then I met someone. Or rather, started actually talking to someone I’d actually known for awhile. Online. And it quickly went to phone calls, and then video chat… We did already meet, and we’re meeting again soon.

The way my mind works… I understand abstracts, and I can accept them on their own. But instead of working from the universal to the particular (the Ideal of love, to applying it to a person) I need a particular to understand the universal (now that I can imagine loving this person in front of me, I can understand the Ideal) so in that sense, I DID need the relationship to see everything else…

So again… Yes… And no…

Edited to add: I also try not to be demanding. Sure, I have wants, but I’m more often at his call than he at mine. He has more responsibilities than I do, and I don’t like it when he’s unavailable, but that’s life. We trying to warn each other if we’re going to be busy or offline for long periods and usually catch each other up afterwards. That gives us a sense of being involved, rather than excluded. I never want to be one of those clingy females that never lets him go anywhere without constant updates. My cousin has one of those, and it’s not pretty.

 

[Monica4316]

I don’t know if this helps to clarify, but what I meant was how some people feel worthless and depressed without a relationship. Not just wanting a relationship. I think we can see this in our culture. But neither do I at all advocate total independence which is flawed. What I was referring to is finding our worth in God this is very far from independence, more like absolute dependence, but towards God rather than a human being. This frees us to love other people more deeply, and with a more selfless supernatural love. Marriage should be centred on Christ, and if the spouses see each other as absolutely everything, and put God second, that is problematic. Marriage should help spouses become saints.

This concept is why perhaps consecrated people are able to love their neighbour so much, because they give themselves to God first. Of course marriage is different than consecrated chastity because in marriage there is a self giving to each other and that particular spousal relationship with an earthly person. But I think spouses who find their worth in God would be better able to love each other without being needy and overly sensitive. They would concentrate on the other person, not on self.

 

[Lou2U]

I think its very prevalent today to have relationships to feel loved. But I don’t think such a person is ready for a relationship. Once you don’t feel you NEED one, then I think you are ready, because then you can love the person more selflessly instead of it being some way to find a sense of fulfilment. If a person is in a relationship for that, they need to find God first. We were created to find happiness in Him, and of course before we find that, we look in other places. Such a relationship would always be needy and never ready for marriage. That’s just my opinion.

A relationship can enrich happiness, and it should, but depending on a relationship (and therefore, another person) to give that happiness is when it becomes unhealthy and unwise. It’s not good for the person depending or the person who is being depended on.

Lou

 

[Eliza10]

What I’m reading here man? You’re bringing a whole lot of nice to the table. But you’ve been holding back on the kind.

I mean you haven’t been fair to her in a bunch of different ways.

Let’s see if we can follow this along:

1. You’ve taught her that you like being enslaved to her needs when you don’t.
2. You’ve withheld your real feelings about sex and marriage.
3. You’ve let her take away all your other interests and haven’t complained

So here’s the cup you’re brewing here. You’re building something of a volcano. At some point the real you is gonna come out of this and blow her world all apart at once.

And she’s going to be shattered in a million pieces.

When what you should be doing is just being honest with her. And setting boundaries. And helping her to cope with these boundaries. And teaching her to think of you as an independent person. Not just an appendage.

So really. You need to start being kind to this girl you like.

And stop letting her misunderstand everything she thinks is true.

Peace.

-Trident

Well there’s a different point of view! But its a very good one. You really, really make good points here.

I also agree with Lou.

I wanted to add that the reason she is probably asking for sex when she sees you is that she wants to take the relationship to a place where it would be harder for you to leave. She wants commitment, something more, like she said. Of course you are right to save what you have saved, to do the right thing and God will bless you for that effort - because you can’t out-give God. And having sex would be exactly like saying “I love you forever” - which is a lie - since you don’t know if you love her forever.

It does seem like you are at a point in the relationship where you must move forward (plan to visit her more, plan marriage) or stop the relationship that is going nowhere. Because you just can’t stay stalled. It doesn’t work. But if you are tied to the phone 4-5 hours a night it IS hard to think about what you want. You should probably take a week off, and spend an hour a day of that sitting before Jesus in the Tabernacle. You should have some clarity then. The problem is getting her to give you up for a whole week. … maybe some people here could help you with suggestions for that request!

 

[JustinK]

What I’m reading here man? You’re bringing a whole lot of nice to the table. But you’ve been holding back on the kind.

I mean you haven’t been fair to her in a bunch of different ways.

Let’s see if we can follow this along:

1. You’ve taught her that you like being enslaved to her needs when you don’t.
2. You’ve withheld your real feelings about sex and marriage.
3. You’ve let her take away all your other interests and haven’t complained

So here’s the cup you’re brewing here. You’re building something of a volcano. At some point the real you is gonna come out of this and blow her world all apart at once.

And she’s going to be shattered in a million pieces.

When what you should be doing is just being honest with her. And setting boundaries. And helping her to cope with these boundaries. And teaching her to think of you as an independent person. Not just an appendage.

So really. You need to start being kind to this girl you like.

And stop letting her misunderstand everything she thinks is true.

Peace.

-Trident

Trident, thanks for the reply. It made me think a bit more about the relationship.

Being kind would mean being honest with her. And I agree, honesty is best so you both know where the other person is coming from. However, it’s hard to be truly honest sometimes just because we both have trouble understanding where the other person is coming from. That has always been an issue that I guess has been in the background for a long time now.

As far as your list, for a while, I thought I was being a good boyfriend by sacrificing all of that for her. But lately, I’ve been seeing it bring me nothing but hurt and the need to want to do what I want to do sometimes. And all it brings her is false security. I thought it was ‘sacrificial’ love. However, that can quickly turn into being easily manipulated and taken advantage of.

Teaching her to think of me as an independent person would be great. I think she sort of expects us to talk every day now because we’ve been talking for so long. I don’t want her to get upset any time I can’t talk, but that’s just going to take time. I could also see her being confused as to why I want time for myself. It’s not that I don’t like talking to her, it’s that I get upset with her being upset at me for wanting to do something else sometimes. And yea, I get where she’s coming from. Her talking to me on the phone is her way of connecting with her boyfriend that she can’t connect to other ways.

But you’re right. I need to start being honest with her. There have been times where I just thought of doing what I wanted and if she disagreed, that was her issue. I’ve found that to be the best option. There used to be a time where I thought I could control how she felt if I talked to her all the time and made her happy. But I soon found out that she’s going to feel how she’s going to feel and if she gets upset with me for hanging out with friends, I won’t feel bad about it. That took awhile to learn, too.

You gave me a lot to reflect on. Thanks.

Well wishes.

-Justin

 

[JustinK]

It isn’t your job to love her because she needs someone to. It isn’t your job to make her happy because she needs someone to make her happy. It isn’t your job to be available at all hours for her to talk to you. It isn’t fair to you to hide your beliefs because she will incorrectly assume a different motive and become upset.

It is her job to love herself and it is her job to make herself happy. You might be able to do both of these things but if she can’t do it herself, it’s a lost cause. She is manipulative and incredibly immature. It isn’t possible for you to drop everything whenever she needs you and if you can’t explain that to her without her jumping to conclusions your relationship is not a healthy one. If you can’t explain why you want to wait until marriage to have sex, and why you want to wait to marry her in the first place, then your relationship is an unhealthy one.

I’ve seen on these boards that dating is discerning a person for marriage. If you are already having problems before you’ve even properly dated, I don’t think there’s much point to moving forward. There is something to be said for waiting and being patient but if it comes with pretending you are okay with the issues and ignoring anything you don’t like, that’s not patience, that’s dangerous. Communication is the most important part of any relationship.

Don’t lead her on. Be honest, and if she can’t accept your reasoning for how you feel and why, I think it would be best to call time.

I’ve just read your post again, and I think you have a bit of a “saving people” thing going on. You say she may be manipulative and immature but she needs someone to love her. No. She is manipulative and immature. She wants you to feel as though she needs you so you don’t leave her on her own. What you are reflecting is that she can’t make herself happy on her own. This doesn’t mean it is down to you to do it. That is pressure, too much pressure for you. It isn’t your job to love her because she needs it. If you love her, you should love her for her, not because she needs you to.

You shouldn’t try to save people like this. You will get hurt The best thing you can do is to encourage her to recognise it in herself and for her to get some professional help. If she can’t recognise it, your relationship is going to be harder than any relationship should be. I seriously think you should take a step back and consider your motives and hers for this relationship.

Lou

Lou, thanks for your reply.

I’m sure learning a lot about relationships while I’m trying to keep my first one afloat!

For awhile, I thought that’s what love was. Making people happy. But I’ve found out it tends to turn me into a doormat and at the cost of my on happiness. As far as ‘dropping everything for her’, I also thought that meant she means more to me than those other things. I thought that was a good thing.

By the way, a perfect example of this: My phone just started dying and I was scrambling for a charger. Not for me. For her. I didn’t want to make her upset when I didn’t text her because of a dead phone. Yesterday my brother and his girlfriend came home. We played mini-golf and then came home to play a board game after dinner. She called and I immediately left the game to talk to her while my family was waiting on me to come back. I didn’t want to tell her I wanted to play the game because she would have took that to mean I like the game more than talking to her. It’s… complicated dealing with those situations.

I feel as though there is a lot of things I won’t be able to tell her just because of who we both are. For instance, she just texted me and asked if I would come to Chicago if she went there. I said I would and that I would take a train. She asked why I wouldn’t just drive. I told her that driving in Chicago sucks. I’m not fond of driving too much anyway. I tend to get nervous rather easily. Anyway, when she gets upset and doesn’t want to hear something, all she says is ‘K’. Which is what she said. So, nevermind that I’d still want to see you, you’re mad that I’m not willing to drive to see you. See what I’m getting at?

Though I agree with the dangers of not communicating and leading her on because of it. Part of me does want to wait to see what happens when we actually can hang out together. But part of me knows that it’s going to be an uphill battle if we decide to move forward with the relationship and I’m not sure I want that. It’s just doubt, I guess.

I do have a ‘saving people’ attitude with a lot of things in my life. For a lot of my life, it’s led to me being the doormat so that other people’s feet stay dry. I took it as being strong enough to take it, but now I’m not sure. I’ll try and take a step back to look at it from another viewpoint.

Thanks for the reflections you have inspired in me.

Regards.

-Justin

 

[JustinK]

I think its very prevalent today to have relationships to feel loved. But I don’t think such a person is ready for a relationship. Once you don’t feel you NEED one, then I think you are ready, because then you can love the person more selflessly instead of it being some way to find a sense of fulfilment. If a person is in a relationship for that, they need to find God first. We were created to find happiness in Him, and of course before we find that, we look in other places. Such a relationship would always be needy and never ready for marriage. That’s just my opinion.

Monica, thank you for your reply.

Not only that, but I feel people today go in and out of relationships too quickly. They often just move on when something gets rough and they don’t want to deal with it. That’s where I feel us working through so much has to have some kind of importance.

I agree with loving the person more fully once it’s not centered on what YOU want out of it. That’s something I’ve been struggling with. Like I’ve said before, I’ve seen me being a doormat and giving her what she wants as loving her more than myself. However, I’ve begun to find out that I must love myself as well.

I also agree with us looking for other places to find happiness. It happens all the time. But when it comes to relationships, I think people look to those first because they are a lot more ‘concrete’ than a relationship with God.

Thanks again for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

Best.

-Justin

 

[JustinK]

I agree in essence but I think we as a culture overemphasize the not needing someone.

In that for example if all humans save me were gone tomorrow, I can live. I can farm, hunt and make things sure.

But going to a movie and ordering a pizza are highly wonderful.

I don’t “need” these things in the pure literal sense… but I need movies and pizza… I do because they are way more awesome than the alternative.

We sometimes make it so that it sounds as though we are not “ready” until we are so independent we can hardly live with someone cramping our style.

Though in this case it is highly possible her needyness is at issue, on the same token feeding it via nonconfrontation and confusion can lead one to habit. Much as those who sometimes live without movies and pizza find the world a less lovely place via those things. And how no one wants to go to jail but enough time spent there and people sometimes off themselves upon freedom because they can’t handle it.

We should be careful to cast the idea that enjoyment and want are always true “need” as true need is usually from a place of emotional issue vs completion with one’s other half.

I am reminded of a tv show plot where an older man wanted to become a transexual woman. It was stated by his preacher that he was seeking to “complete” himself apart from his wife as her being his flesh was his outlet to his feminine side and visa versa.

And given our world of independence and the tendency to these disorders… I see much value in that advice.

Lethal, thanks for replying.

I totally agree that pizza and movies are wonderful. I believe this is why people have relationships. We like to have that human contact to not feel as alone in the world. And, it’s true, having relationships with people is better than the alternative of being totally isolated.

I never want to get so independent that it’s impossible for me to live with anyone. Though I have been becoming moreso recently. I’ve moved into an apartment and am paying my own bills now. It’s exciting. I like to think I can be my own person, but with her, it feels like I have to sometimes be what she wants me to be. And that’s not the way it should be, I’d imagine. I understand that we have different lives and different views, but I’d like to think we can find some commonalities.

I spoke with a counselor in college. She told me that I should find somebody who matches my values and beliefs. Mainly because it would be a hard road if I chose to be with someone who didn’t agree on a deeper level. Perhaps I should have remembered that advice sooner.

This relationship kind of ‘just happened’ one night and the next day, we were ‘dating’.

Your movie reference and thoughts about freedom after jail made me think of The Shawshank Redemption. Some people had been there so long, they couldn’t handle life on the outside. I sometimes wonder if I’ll be able to handle ‘life on the outside’ if we ever break up. I imagine it would feel lonely, even without someone demanding attention.

Thanks for making me reflect more.

Best.

-Justin

 

[JustinK]

Well… Yes, and no, on pretty much every opinion presented here.

Yes, LD is hard. We work with it. And we’re meeting again soon, and I’m planning to move closer, not just for him, but for me. I’m not exactly tied where I’m at.

Wanting to be the rescuer is normal male instinct; don’t squash it too much, but don’t be afraid to expect some participation on her part. After all, even Rapunzel had to braid her hair and let it down.

Also, I agree with LM. We should all be ‘able’ to live on our own… But if it wasn’t objectively nicer to do it WITH someone… Why would we bother to pair up? (By this I mean more than having sex for mere enjoyment.)

My situation is hard to explain… I needed to feel loved, but not quite the way the OP is describing. I knew everything in theory, the true definition of love, the purpose of marriage, why chastity until, etc. But it all seemed so distant… Floating in a place void of context, a theory without proof, something I believed because it was logical, not because it had the weight of reality.

So it was all there. But I had no confidence… I put on my makeup and picked my clothes and did the best I could, but I didn’t really think anyone would be particularly impressed with me. I’m ok looking… My weight wasn’t too bad… I do know how to pick ‘nice’ outfits, even though I can’t always afford to… I was and am merely average.

And then I met someone. Or rather, started actually talking to someone I’d actually known for awhile. Online. And it quickly went to phone calls, and then video chat… We did already meet, and we’re meeting again soon.

The way my mind works… I understand abstracts, and I can accept them on their own. But instead of working from the universal to the particular (the Ideal of love, to applying it to a person) I need a particular to understand the universal (now that I can imagine loving this person in front of me, I can understand the Ideal) so in that sense, I DID need the relationship to see everything else…

So again… Yes… And no…

Edited to add: I also try not to be demanding. Sure, I have wants, but I’m more often at his call than he at mine. He has more responsibilities than I do, and I don’t like it when he’s unavailable, but that’s life. We trying to warn each other if we’re going to be busy or offline for long periods and usually catch each other up afterwards. That gives us a sense of being involved, rather than excluded. I never want to be one of those clingy females that never lets him go anywhere without constant updates. My cousin has one of those, and it’s not pretty.

Silver, thank you for replying.

Long distance is a hard path, for sure. It’s good that you guys are working with it. There are definitely differences between that and a ‘conventional’ relationship. It’s good you are open to moving closer together. We have talked about that as well. A part of me is just afraid for it, though. I don’t want her to uproot herself and have it wind up not working out. But that’s a gamble you’re willing to take. She’s talked about moving here more than once, but she’s a bit more tied than I am. She’s a manager at her job and we both have apartment leases. So, we just plan trips to see each other for now.

I think ‘being a rescuer’ is indeed a male instinct. I don’t know, something about wanting to ‘save’ somebody by loving them like they haven’t been loved before is just so… appealing to me. But, I am a poet after all.

I loved your explanation of what you thought love was. I get what a lot of things are ‘in theory’. It’s putting the theory into practice that is scary and complicated. In fact, my friend once told me that I had all the pieces of a relationship (a girl I was committed to, a willingness to see it through, a want to make things work out for the best) but I might have the wrong girl. Again, this plays into the ‘theory’. In my mind, it’s abstract until we actually start hanging out together and I start to formulate a bond with her that’s more than talking on the phone. I think that’s why I’m trying so hard for this to work, as well. To understand some abstract ideas in a more concrete way.

I don’t think anybody likes having someone else being unavailable to them, but it’s a good thing to recognize when people need a break from another individual. I like your system of informing each other beforehand that you’re going to be busy. Though I have a feeling if I tried that with her, she’d see it as me not wanting to talk to her.

I find this ironic because she has told me that she recognizes we have two separate lives and she doesn’t expect me glued to her hip. She has also told me that once we actually see each other and date date, she’ll have times where she would want to be left alone. This confuses me as she does the opposite and gets upset when I want to be alone.

I’m reminded of a time where some of my friends invited me to a bar after work. Now, I NEVER go out with friends. So, I was really looking forward to it. Of course she wanted to talk to me after work before she went to bed, so she didn’t want me to go. I told another friend and she informed me that it wasn’t healthy for a significant other to prevent the other from having a social life. I agreed so I went out. But in the back of my mind, I was thinking about how upset/sad my girlfriend must have been, so I couldn’t really enjoy myself.

Part of me keeps thinking it’ll be better once we actually hang out and my mind creates a concrete version of her rather than an abstract one. Perhaps.

I wish you luck with your relationship.

Well wishes.

-Justin

 

[JustinK]

I don’t know if this helps to clarify, but what I meant was how some people feel worthless and depressed without a relationship. Not just wanting a relationship. I think we can see this in our culture. But neither do I at all advocate total independence which is flawed. What I was referring to is finding our worth in God this is very far from independence, more like absolute dependence, but towards God rather than a human being. This frees us to love other people more deeply, and with a more selfless supernatural love. Marriage should be centred on Christ, and if the spouses see each other as absolutely everything, and put God second, that is problematic. Marriage should help spouses become saints.

This concept is why perhaps consecrated people are able to love their neighbour so much, because they give themselves to God first. Of course marriage is different than consecrated chastity because in marriage there is a self giving to each other and that particular spousal relationship with an earthly person. But I think spouses who find their worth in God would be better able to love each other without being needy and overly sensitive. They would concentrate on the other person, not on self.

Monica, you have some really good insight!

People feel worthless without a relationship because they feel like they’re not wanted. When in reality, they are wanted. They just don’t see that because the one who wants them the most is one they cannot see.

I feel as though people who put everything into each other have problems because you’re putting all of you into one person’s hands. When in reality, the only one strong enough to handle all of who you are is God. That and the couple might focus on the world more than they focus on the world that awaits them if they center themselves with Jesus.

The part that I struggle with is focusing on the other person and not on self. This has placed me in some bad situations as I tend to think being humble is sometimes letting people walk on you and being selfless is giving all your time to another person rather than having time for yourself.

Like all things, it’s just going to take some time to understand how to balance everything and make her happy at the same time.

Thanks again for your advice.

Kind regards.

-Justin

 

[JustinK]

A relationship can enrich happiness, and it should, but depending on a relationship (and therefore, another person) to give that happiness is when it becomes unhealthy and unwise. It’s not good for the person depending or the person who is being depended on.

Lou

Lou, thanks for posting again.

I agree with you. Depending on another to supply you with happiness is unrealistic most times. Sometimes, it works out. But most times, the person winds up with a broken heart.

I feel like I see this relationship in a kind of mixed-up way because of this. She depends on me to be there for her, to give her that happiness. But I know I can’t always be there for her. This causes a lot of unneeded tension and stress. I hate disappointing her, but I also hate not being able to live my own life sometimes.

It’s good to have a discussion about this. It really makes me think about things in a different way.

Thanks for contributing.

-Justin

 

[oldgraymare2]

It isn’t your job to love her because she needs someone to. It isn’t your job to make her happy because she needs someone to make her happy. It isn’t your job to be available at all hours for her to talk to you. It isn’t fair to you to hide your beliefs because she will incorrectly assume a different motive and become upset.

It is her job to love herself and it is her job to make herself happy. You might be able to do both of these things but if she can’t do it herself, it’s a lost cause. She is manipulative and incredibly immature. It isn’t possible for you to drop everything whenever she needs you and if you can’t explain that to her without her jumping to conclusions your relationship is not a healthy one. If you can’t explain why you want to wait until marriage to have sex, and why you want to wait to marry her in the first place, then your relationship is an unhealthy one.

I’ve seen on these boards that dating is discerning a person for marriage. If you are already having problems before you’ve even properly dated, I don’t think there’s much point to moving forward. There is something to be said for waiting and being patient but if it comes with pretending you are okay with the issues and ignoring anything you don’t like, that’s not patience, that’s dangerous. Communication is the most important part of any relationship.

Don’t lead her on. Be honest, and if she can’t accept your reasoning for how you feel and why, I think it would be best to call time.

I’ve just read your post again, and I think you have a bit of a “saving people” thing going on. You say she may be manipulative and immature but she needs someone to love her. No. She is manipulative and immature. She wants you to feel as though she needs you so you don’t leave her on her own. What you are reflecting is that she can’t make herself happy on her own. This doesn’t mean it is down to you to do it. That is pressure, too much pressure for you. It isn’t your job to love her because she needs it. If you love her, you should love her for her, not because she needs you to.

You shouldn’t try to save people like this. You will get hurt The best thing you can do is to encourage her to recognise it in herself and for her to get some professional help. If she can’t recognise it, your relationship is going to be harder than any relationship should be. I seriously think you should take a step back and consider your motives and hers for this relationship.

Lou

Hi Justin,

I agree with Lou’s post. I think that Lou summed up what I have been thinking, too.

This is my own opinion, and others may disagree with me, but when I was younger, I went out with other people without being seriously committed to anyone, at any particular time.

I felt that I was young enough, and in the meantime I wanted to experience life and meet different people.

I was not really committed to anyone in particular, until I met my husband, and started going out with him. Once I met him, that changed everything for me. I felt like he was the person for me that I would marry.

It seems as though you do have doubts about this particular relationship that you are in, and if I were you, I would go out with others to experience other relationships, since this is the only one that you are familiar with at this time.

 

[JustinK]

Well there’s a different point of view! But its a very good one. You really, really make good points here.

I also agree with Lou.

I wanted to add that the reason she is probably asking for sex when she sees you is that she wants to take the relationship to a place where it would be harder for you to leave. She wants commitment, something more, like she said. Of course you are right to save what you have saved, to do the right thing and God will bless you for that effort - because you can’t out-give God. And having sex would be exactly like saying “I love you forever” - which is a lie - since you don’t know if you love her forever.

It does seem like you are at a point in the relationship where you must move forward (plan to visit her more, plan marriage) or stop the relationship that is going nowhere. Because you just can’t stay stalled. It doesn’t work. But if you are tied to the phone 4-5 hours a night it IS hard to think about what you want. You should probably take a week off, and spend an hour a day of that sitting before Jesus in the Tabernacle. You should have some clarity then. The problem is getting her to give you up for a whole week. … maybe some people here could help you with suggestions for that request!

Eliza, thank you for replying.

I think the reason most people have sex nowadays, aside from the whole ‘instant gratification let’s have sex now’ mindset, is to bond with each other. She knows how special it is to me and we’ve discussed it a few times. She sees it as sharing your body with someone special. While I agree with that, there is more to it than that for me.

The thing I hate the most is that she won’t 100% see where I’m coming from just because she was brought up differently. In my family, sex was always to be saved until after marriage.

I’ve had people tell me that ‘sex is sex’. I just can’t wrap my mind around that statement. I mean, biologically speaking yea, there is an evolutionary need for sex. But, I believe we can exercise self-control when faced with certain times. That’s what separates us from animals.

You’re right when you say having sex is like saying, “I’ll love you forever.” Which, yea. I’m not sure if I will or not yet. We still have a long way to go in the relationship. Heck, we’ve only seen each other twice in the past two years.

I also think WAY TOO MUCH. That’s a whole other issue, but it’s kind of related. I want her to see where I’m coming from, but the level I think about things at is just unreal at times and I can’t really expect that from anyone. I sometimes make it into a joke, but she’s told me that I think too much after trying to decide what I want to eat for breakfast. Like, that’s nowhere near the tip of the iceberg. If she thinks that’s overthinking, what is she going to think about my feeling with deeper things like sex and religion?

She’s brought up that going to Church is my opinion and she has her own opinion. I suppose I have to respect that to an extent. I mean, my mom goes to Church and my dad doesn’t always go. But they still love each other.

Eh. It’s just going to be hard to explain religion to someone you think you love when they haven’t (or don’t) want to hear it. That talk’s going to be fun.

I’ve decided talks like that are better done in person so you can see their expressions and such. So, I’m saving that one for when we actually see each other more often. And I agree, we have already both said we need to see each other more for this to go anywhere.

I liked your suggestion of calming my mind with Jesus for a little bit. Sometimes, I need that calm.

Also, out of context, but it’s so hard to have a relationship for years without really knowing the person. Maybe this is why I’m waiting so patiently to meet up. The issue with that is every time you meet, is so much more stressful than a regular date of someone you see all the time. Again, we’ll see what it brings.

This made me think a little more.

Thanks.

-Justin

 

[SilverShadow22]

I have also been told I overthink.

It’s simply my personality. Some people will understand; some won’t.

And I do think she needs to learn to give you up. If she’s not giving you anything… If she’s not reconciled to the fact that sometimes she can’t have what she wants, that she’s going to sometimes be disappointed… Then this isn’t going to work in the long run.

You can’t be the only one who gives. One-sided giving may be Christian love, but it isn’t what makes a marriage.

 

[JustinK]

Hi Justin,

I agree with Lou’s post. I think that Lou summed up what I have been thinking, too.

This is my own opinion, and others may disagree with me, but when I was younger, I went out with other people without being seriously committed to anyone, at any particular time.

I felt that I was young enough, and in the meantime I wanted to experience life and meet different people.

I was not really committed to anyone in particular, until I met my husband, and started going out with him. Once I met him, that changed everything for me. I felt like he was the person for me that I would marry.

It seems as though you do have doubts about this particular relationship that you are in, and if I were you, I would go out with others to experience other relationships, since this is the only one that you are familiar with at this time.

That’s what most people do. I was always lacking a little on the social side, though. I would love to just go out and have fun with people. I did that a little in college until I met her. Then we just kept talking every day and after 4 years here we are.

There are times I miss doing things with other people. There are also times I wish we weren’t dating so that I could try and see what dating other people is like. The thing with that though, is I’d have to stop talking to her completely just because of how our relationship is. We were friends before ‘dating’, but even then it was a little like it is now. I felt like I needed to be there for her all the time. I didn’t mind it because it was nice to come home to someone and to have someone there for you.

My mom has also gave me the same suggestion. She’s asked me if I like anyone from work or told me that I should go out to a movie with someone. I was confused by this because I considered it ‘cheating.’ But she says it’s just getting to know someone else.

I also have a really bad tendency to get easily infatuated with people. It used to be really bad. There was always another person. Another fish in the sea to go after. I never got so far as really talking to them, but still. But, this is why I think seeing other people would be a bad option. Though there are some people I wouldn’t mind getting to know better. But, I’m a romantic so part of me would want to see what it would be like to get to know them on a deeper level. I guess part of me wants to prove to myself that love is possible for someone like me.

Your statement of experiencing life. Oh, I’d love to so much. I brought that up with her a LONG time ago. Like when we first started talking. I told her how it didn’t feel like I’d ever have a relationship because part of me wants to experience differences in life with different people. And she told me, “Couldn’t you just experience it with one person?” At the time, I said no.

Like I said, I am not too social but the aspect of experiencing life and having fun being a kid. Well, adult now but still. That thought is super exciting. Like, getting all dressed up for a date and feeling nervous for it because it’s a mystery but it’s equally exciting. That’d be super cool. But part of me feels tied down to this relationship, though. Like part of me feels like I have already found someone to ‘settle down with’, but it has happened before I have dated anybody else so part of me feels like I have nothing to compare it to or I missed out on those fun experiences of just getting to know different people.

I remember there was a time when she told me, “You never tell me you love me anymore.” I told her that it was implied. Then I proceeded to tell her how everything I do during my day revolves around her. I think of what to say to her, what not to say to her, is she mad, is she sad, can I do this tonight or will she be upset, etc. She didn’t say anything on that. She simply said, “It’s just nice to hear once in awhile.”

I talked to her friend a while back, a few years ago even, and she told me that she plans around me. I didn’t get that but now I do. Let me tell you, planning your life around someone is exhausting. But feeling like you NEED to plan your life around someone is hell.

So yea, sometimes, a fresh start with another person looks incredible. But like I said, part of me doesn’t want to hurt her because of turning my back on the vast history that we have made together. But part of me actually wants to get excited to talk to someone again. Not that I don’t love getting cute messages from her or whatnot, but you get the picture.

My mom made a comment on this, too. I made the remark a while ago that talking to her doesn’t really give me butterflies anymore. She just told me it was because we’ve been talking for so long. So, I chalked it up to that. Also the whole notion of ‘not giving up when the butterflies end’ has stuck with me to a certain extent.

I just realized how much I typed. I tend to get out of control sometimes as writing has always been a way to make sense of my thoughts.

Sorry about that.

Thank you again for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

-Justin

 

[SilverShadow22]

Don’t worry about your long posts.

I, for one, appreciate good grammar enough to keep reading when I find it. And a lot of stuff resonates with feelings I had about past virtual relationships… But they always reached a breaking point. Only one ever made it to a first meeting, let alone close to a second.

But all this doubt and wondering is quite natural given the circumstances… However, you need be able to separate. My LD and I have gone a night without talking, or just a quick good night, due to circumstances… But it’s a good exercise regardless. Like fasting. We did it once just on principle… A Friday fast of sorts. And yes, it felt strange for for a couple hours. But life went on. And we talked the next night.