In RCIA to become Latin Rite Catholic, but SO is Maronite

[HollyBerries]

My spouse is Maronite, but I am in RCIA to become a Latin Rite Catholic. Recently, I was told there are some key differences between baptism of children in each rite, i.e. Maronites baptize and confirm at basically the same time, while confirmation does not take place until the age of reason in the Latin rite.

My spouse (who is not particularly knowledgeable regarding the faith, though he attends Mass at a Roman Catholic church with me each Sunday) thinks it will be okay for me to become a Catholic in the Latin Rite, for us to be parishioners and active at a Roman Catholic church, but to baptize our children Maronite. But I feel this is contradictory because of the two different processes of confirmation and I also don’t know that it is right to just use the Maronite church to baptize our children to keep the tradition, but otherwise raise them in the Latin rite, while attending Divine Liturgy on occasion at the Maronite Church. Unless that is okay?

Personally, I am drawn to the Latin rite, but I have reservations about converting to the Latin rite now and don’t know if I should consider the Maronite rite instead (which I also think is beautiful), but I know the process is not the same - my understanding is that it is much easier to convert in the Eastern rite and I wouldn’t be going through an RCIA program, and I love participating in a full on RCIA program.

Does anyone have any suggestions or advice? I thought that by becoming at least Catholic I was getting us closer to being on the same page (which is not why I am converting by the way), but it seems like I am just complicating things more than when I was just Protestant.

 

[puzzleannie]

You need to talk to the pastor where you are in RCIA, you will soon get a more knowledgeable answer on this forum from other Eastern Catholics, but as an RCIA director I can tell you normally the children belong to the father’s rite, even if they are baptized by a Latin priest, and such cases must be brought to the notice of both pastors because there are rules of procedure and record-keeping. Your husband should also speak to his pastor, because he may be missing information you need to make these decisions intelligently.

By itself confirmation at the time of baptism is not a problem theologically, doctrinally nor in practice and is in fact how adults, including children over age 7, will be brought into the Church through RCIA.

Regardless of when they are confirmed you will no doubt be seeing to your children’s formal religious education throughout their school years.

 

[HolyRosario]

Hello , it seems you don’t know which rite you really want to be , but just to let you know that no rite is more catholic than another , we are all in communion with the pope and we all belong to the Church of Christ.

Now my suggestions to you is that since your husband wants to baptize your children Maronite , you shall let him do so because eather way if you or him baptize your child it will still be performing a baptism.

And you have also mentioned you are attracted to the Latin Church , what you can possibally do is that since your husband is also a Catholic , you both can go to a Roman Catholic Mass and get your sacraments.

I hope this has helped.

God Bless!

 

[Frank_J]

If I were you I would give your baby Maronites baptism. I think that is the right thing to do…

 

[jwinch2]

Since the sacraments are just as valid in either Rite of the Catholic Church, it really comes down to personal preference as far as where you have your child Baptized and Confirmed. If you are being called to the Latin Rite and your husband is going to stay with the Maronite Rite, then perhaps you can come up with an arrangement of alternating Mass/Divine Liturgy attendance and a way to incorporate your children’s upbringing in that process. I would suggest speaking with both his and your priests and see if they have any thoughts on the matter. There may be a way to have a child baptized in one rite and confirmed in another if they two priests are willing to talk to each other and work it out.

Either way, please do not worry about having more problems now that you are coming into the Church than before. You will now be part of the same faith, share each other’s sacraments and doctrine, and have more in common than ever before. Heck, it will likely be a great opportunity for both of you to deepen your faith. You can have conversations about aspects of the faith from both traditions and come to a deeper understanding of the Church’s teachings.

Welcome home and God Bless!

 

[HollyBerries]

I am totally down with baptizing our (future) children Maronite. I do not want to interrupt what I feel is a really important tradition and faith. I just don’t know whether we should therefore be fully participating in the Maronite rite and whether I should go the Maronite route. I have been very drawn to the Latin rite and have been enjoying participating in its traditions and mass. I have been to Divine Liturgies in the US and in Lebanon and it’s very beautiful, but I just feel more “at home” in the Latin rite and feel more connected to those traditions.

 

[malphono]

I am totally down with baptizing our (future) children Maronite. I do not want to interrupt what I feel is a really important tradition and faith. I just don’t know whether we should therefore be fully participating in the Maronite rite and whether I should go the Maronite route. I have been very drawn to the Latin rite and have been enjoying participating in its traditions and mass. I have been to Divine Liturgies in the US and in Lebanon and it’s very beautiful, but I just feel more “at home” in the Latin rite and feel more connected to those traditions.

By use of the word “spouse” in the original post, I have to assume that the marriage has already taken place. Just out of curiosity, in which Church was it done, Latin or Maronite?

In any case, since it appears that you are entering the Church from “outside” and you are clearly more disposed to the Latin Rite, I would suggest you go that way. Now, as for any children of this union, they follow the rite of the father, so they will be canonically Maronite unless there is mutual agreement between the spouses that the child be enrolled in the Church of mother. Such agreement must be declared by both parties to the parish priest in advance.

The venue of the baptism is somewhat immaterial. If child is to be canonically Maronite, it would still be fine to have to the baptism in a Latin parish and vice versa. The baptising priest will make the appropriate notation in the baptismal record.

BTW, which parish you actually frequent is also rather immaterial. One could even regularly attend a Melkite parish, for example, and it wouldn’t make much difference.

 

[HollyBerries]

We have only had a civil wedding (he was immigrating here and we had a limited time frame for marriage) and are having our wedding in the Maronite rite next month.

I just got the impression from the person in charge of the RCIA program (and she indicated she’d spoken to the priests about it as well) I’m attending that it was problematic that he was Maronite, we are getting married in the Maronite rite, and that we would need to decide whether we I should pursue the Latin rite because of the difference in children’s baptism and confirmation rites.

 

[jwinch2]

We have only had a civil wedding (he was immigrating here and we had a limited time frame for marriage) and are having our wedding in the Maronite rite next month.

I just got the impression from the person in charge of the RCIA program (and she indicated she’d spoken to the priests about it as well) I’m attending that it was problematic that he was Maronite, we are getting married in the Maronite rite, and that we would need to decide whether we I should pursue the Latin rite because of the difference in children’s baptism and confirmation rites.

It should not be a problem for you to get married in the Maronite rite as a soon to be Latin Catholic. Besides, you will be married prior to finishing RCIA and the Church will certainly recognize the marriage as valid. You should definitely make an appointment to speak with your priest about the situation as soon as you can.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

We have only had a civil wedding (he was immigrating here and we had a limited time frame for marriage) and are having our wedding in the Maronite rite next month.

I am sure you understand that at present the Church does not consider you married. Consequently, it would be inappropriate to live as man and wife.

I just got the impression from the person in charge of the RCIA program (and she indicated she’d spoken to the priests about it as well) I’m attending that it was problematic that he was Maronite, we are getting married in the Maronite rite, and that we would need to decide whether we I should pursue the Latin rite because of the difference in children’s baptism and confirmation rites.

It is fine for you to marry in the Maronite Church. You can then be received into the Latin Church. Technically, as a Protestant the Church would normally require you to become a Latin Catholic.

When you have been received into the Church and you are both Catholics it is a technical matter about which Church your children receive the sacraments of intiation (baptism, confirmation, Eucharist) in. The Latin and Maronite churches are both fully Catholic. Unless you both make a formal agreement for your children to be baptised in the Latin Church they will be Maronites canonically - children usually become members of the same Church as the father.

 

[puzzleannie]

The well thought out opinions of contributors aside, the OP and her husband need to speak to both the Latin and Maronite priests about the proper way to go about this, with regard to both the wedding and baptism of children (with which we hope they are blessed) as it is not a matter of opinion, but of canon law in the respective rites.

 

[HollyBerries]

The well thought out opinions of contributors aside, the OP and her husband need to speak to both the Latin and Maronite priests about the proper way to go about this, with regard to both the wedding and baptism of children (with which we hope they are blessed) as it is not a matter of opinion, but of canon law in the respective rites.

It seems so complicated which is why I wonder whether I should just get out of RCIA and become Maronite. But it would feel as if I were ignoring that I am drawn to the Latin rite. Because we typically attend a Roman Catholic church, we don’t really have a relationship with the Maronite priest, but perhaps he would be willing to speak with us.

I am sure you understand that at present the Church does not consider you married. Consequently, it would be inappropriate to live as man and wife.

Yes, I’m aware

 

[jwinch2]

It seems so complicated which is why I wonder whether I should just get out of RCIA and become Maronite. But it would feel as if I were ignoring that I am drawn to the Latin rite. Because we typically attend a Roman Catholic church, we don’t really have a relationship with the Maronite priest, but perhaps he would be willing to speak with us.

I’m sure he would. I think that setting up a time to meet with the priest at your Latin Rite parish and the Maronite priest is your best route.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

It seems so complicated which is why I wonder whether I should just get out of RCIA and become Maronite. But it would feel as if I were ignoring that I am drawn to the Latin rite. Because we typically attend a Roman Catholic church, we don’t really have a relationship with the Maronite priest, but perhaps he would be willing to speak with us.

It would appear to be complicated. However, I am sure it can be resolved.

Where do you want to be married? In the Latin or Maronite church? The Maronite would be the most appropriate because that is your husband’s Church. I say that as I believe you will be married before being received into the Church.

Once you are married you can continue with RCIA. If it is the Latin Church to which you feel spiritually drawn then it would be better to continue with your plans to become Latin.

After your marriage and your reception into the Church you can worship in any Catholic church. As you both go to the Latin Church you could continue with that.

The issue with regards to children is not something I think you should have too many concerns about at this stage. That is something to deal with in the future if God blesses your marriage with children, which I pray he does.

 

[5Loaves]

It seems so complicated which is why I wonder whether I should just get out of RCIA and become Maronite. But it would feel as if I were ignoring that I am drawn to the Latin rite. Because we typically attend a Roman Catholic church, we don’t really have a relationship with the Maronite priest, but perhaps he would be willing to speak with us.

Welcome to the CAF EC section.

I find this post odd, that you don’t really have a relationship with the Maronite priest but you are getting married in his Church next month. This doesn’t compute for me.

As puzzleannie and others have indicated you need to be talking with the priest, and possibly someone in the chancery more informed on canon law than the parties you’re currently talking with. You both need to understand the differences in these two Churches, the Latin Church, and the Maronite Church and the differences for you children under canon law depending on which Church they are canonically members. Any Eastern Catholic who has grown up in a Latin Church can tell you about the challenges that entails. You need to be aware of the differences in our liturgical calendars, different feasts and fasts for the two Churches etc. I myself would very much encourage you to see if the Maronite priest or the chancery can put you in touch with some married couples who also are from two different Catholic Churches and talk with them about how they have dealt with these differences.

Are you a validly baptized Christian being received into the Church or an unbaptized person preparing to for the sacraments of initiation-- baptism, chrismation/confirmation, and Holy Eucharist?

I’m away from home responding from my phone so someone else will need to supply you with the canons that allow a woman to change to the Church of her husband and after the end of the marriage in death or annulment return to her Church if she choosesc a simple move. Neither move involves the permission of the bishops.

 

[Vico]

I am totally down with baptizing our (future) children Maronite. I do not want to interrupt what I feel is a really important tradition and faith. I just don’t know whether we should therefore be fully participating in the Maronite rite and whether I should go the Maronite route. I have been very drawn to the Latin rite and have been enjoying participating in its traditions and mass. I have been to Divine Liturgies in the US and in Lebanon and it’s very beautiful, but I just feel more “at home” in the Latin rite and feel more connected to those traditions.

Please do not be afraid of any details, they will all be worked out in time. It is possible for you to become a Latin Church member, canonically, and also be married in the Maronite Church (which is normal with a Maronite groom), and to have the children enrolled in either Church, and at age 14 they can choose for themselves (this is normal per the canon law for a mixed “rite” family). Family members can be enrolled in different Churches according to the canon laws. When a mixed Catholic Church family exists, it is possible to follow the fast and abstinance and holy days of one or the other (per the canons) which allows less conflict in the family.

The sacramental discipline is different (and goes with their distinctive theology) for most of the eastern Churches are re-establishing their ancient practice of Chrismation (Confirmation) and Holy Eucharist from the time of Baptism, rather than the Latin Church practice of waiting for the age of reason.

 

[Aramis]

2 important elements:

1. unless otherwise agreed by both parents, children are to be raised in the father’s tradition and enrolled in their father’s church sui iuris of enrollment.
2. The Vatican II post conciliar documents admonish Romans to preserve the eastern rite churches sui iuris, and specifically by practicing in and enrolling the children in the eastern rite parent’s church.
3. it’s very much discouraged in those same documents for an eastern rite father to have his children enrolled in and raised Roman.

Given that the Maronite expression is (at present) the closest to Roman in praxis and liturgy of the Eastern Rite Churches, really, if you can go to a Maronite parish, you probably should.

It’s not a sin if you don’t, but it’s also clearly not the will of the Church that the eastern rites’ faithful owe it to the church to preserve their rites throughout the world.

 

[HollyBerries]

Welcome to the CAF EC section.

I find this post odd, that you don’t really have a relationship with the Maronite priest but you are getting married in his Church next month. This doesn’t compute for me.

It’s because we are not getting married where we now live, but where I’m from which is about 1,500 miles away and we are therefore being married by a priest there.

Are you a validly baptized Christian being received into the Church or an unbaptized person preparing to for the sacraments of initiation-- baptism, chrismation/confirmation, and Holy Eucharist?

Baptized

 

[Matthew_Holford]

2 important elements:

1. unless otherwise agreed by both parents, children are to be raised in the father’s tradition and enrolled in their father’s church sui iuris of enrollment.
2. The Vatican II post conciliar documents admonish Romans to preserve the eastern rite churches sui iuris, and specifically by practicing in and enrolling the children in the eastern rite parent’s church.
3. it’s very much discouraged in those same documents for an eastern rite father to have his children enrolled in and raised Roman.

Given that the Maronite expression is (at present) the closest to Roman in praxis and liturgy of the Eastern Rite Churches, really, if you can go to a Maronite parish, you probably should.

It’s not a sin if you don’t, but it’s also clearly not the will of the Church that the eastern rites’ faithful owe it to the church to preserve their rites throughout the world.

Dear Aramis

Perhaps I’m having a mental aberration but 1 and 2 in your post don’t compute. No. 1 makes sense and is in my understanding absolutely correct.

With no. 2 wouldn’t the children only be raised in the Eastern Church parent’s Church if that parent was the father.

Matt

 

[Vico]

It’s because we are not getting married where we now live, but where I’m from which is about 1,500 miles away and we are therefore being married by a priest there.

Baptized

Aramis made a point that we should preserve the eastern churches, and that is why the father’s church is the norm for the family, and the Church can not, per the canons, induce one to change enrollment.

A protestant is enrolled into the Latin Church, but upon marriage to a Maronite (or anytime during the marriage) the brides enrollment may be changed to Maronite. The Maronite canon laws are different than the Latin canon law, so it has an effect on the sacramental discipline, rights, and obligations of the faithful, and the clergy.

The tradition is that one is received into one of the Catholic churches through baptism, given through the ritual of that Church and by a minister of that Church (or one with permission from it).

There is a tradition that some Ukrainians follow of the girls raised in the church of the mother and the boys in the church of the father, in an inter-Church marriage. It is possible to have children in a few different churches based upon their age of baptism and if they were adopted or own birth.