In religious and political gesture, Pope confers sainthood on two Palestinians

[HolyCrusader007]

*Rome (CNN)They were humble women, servants of God.

And of their fellow men and women in the holy land.

On Sunday, in a canonization laden with significance both religious and political, Pope Francis declared Marie Alphonsine Ghattas and Mariam Baouardy the first two Palestinian saints of modern times.

Some 2,000 Palestinians gathered in the Vatican’s St. Peter’s Square to sing and pray and celebrate their saints. There, they heard the Pope pay tribute to the way in which the two new saints experienced the love of God.

‘Eternal love’

“Sister Mariam Baouardy experienced this in an outstanding way. Poor and uneducated, she was able to counsel others and provide theological explanations with extreme clarity, the fruit of her constant converse with the Holy Spirit. Her docility to the Spirit also made her a means of encounter and fellowship with the Muslim world,” the Pope said.

“So, too, Sister Marie Alphonsine Danil Ghattas came to understand clearly what it means to radiate the love of God … and to be a witness to meekness and unity. She shows us the importance of becoming responsible for one another, of living lives of service one to another,” he said.*

more,

cnn.com/2015/05/17/middleeast/vatican-palestinian-saints/

 

[Darryl1958]

I am not sure what the political gesture would be.

 

[Cake_or_Death]

I am not sure what the political gesture would be.

A perceived slight against Israel I would presume, since I can’t imagine they would be thrilled with any of the Pope’s recent movements towards Palestine. Anything that upsets Israel always wins applause from the Islamic world, they’ve voiced approval when the movements for the canonization of Pius IX went ahead because of his anti-semetic policies.

 

[Darryl1958]

A perceived slight against Israel I would presume, since I can’t imagine they would be thrilled with any of the Pope’s recent movements towards Palestine. Anything that upsets Israel always wins applause from the Islamic world, they’ve voiced approval when the movements for the canonization of Pius IX went ahead because of his anti-semetic policies.

A nun on the West Bank in the 1840’s would never have called herself a Palestinian, any more than a Moabite or a Edomite or a Philistine would have.(Well maybe a Philistine would have, but according to a Greek dialect, and not an Arabic one).

In the same way that there have been people living in Canada for thousands of years, like there have been people living in Palestine for thousand of years, generally they are not referred to as Canadians before the creation of Canada.

If the pope is calling these nuns Palestinians, I guess he is making a political statement.
But it would be as historically incorrect as it would be if he were to call Pocahontas an American.

 

[HolyCrusader007]

A perceived slight against Israel I would presume, since I can’t imagine they would be thrilled with any of the Pope’s recent movements towards Palestine. Anything that upsets Israel always wins applause from the Islamic world, they’ve voiced approval when the movements for the canonization of Pius IX went ahead because of his anti-semetic policies.

Hi Cake or Death,

Israel has peace treaties, with both Jordan and Egypt. Pope Francis has also meant with Israeli leaders in the past and has been reported to have future plans to meet with Israeli leaders.

 

[HolyCrusader007]

A nun on the West Bank in the 1840’s would never have called herself a Palestinian, any more than a Moabite or a Edomite or a Philistine would have.(Well maybe a Philistine would have, but according to a Greek dialect, and not an Arabic one).

In the same way that there have been people living in Canada for thousands of years, like there have been people living in Palestine for thousand of years, generally they are not referred to as Canadians before the creation of Canada.

If the pope is calling these nuns Palestinians, I guess he is making a political statement.
But it would be as historically incorrect as it would be if he were to call Pocahontas an American.

Hi Darryl1958,

The political gesture is something that a CNN writer is suggesting. As for the Catholic Church s standing on Palestine,

• (CNN)The Vatican announced Wednesday that it had brokered a treaty with the “state of Palestine,” upsetting Israeli advocates and propelling Pope Francis into the heart of yet another geopolitical fray.

The treaty is expected to be signed “in the near future,” the Vatican said. Mahmoud Abbas, president of the Palestinian Authority, is scheduled to visit Pope Francis on Saturday, the day before the church canonizes two Palestinian nuns. *

cnn.com/2015/05/13/world/vatican-palestinian-statehood/

Just because CNN is reporting that “Israeli advocates” are upset at the actions of Pope Francis, does not mean that all Israeli or even a majority of pro Israel folks are upset wrt the actions of Pope Francis.

Also , the Catholic Church is using the term “state of Palestine,”

*(Vatican Radio) The Bilateral Commission of the Holy See and the State of Palestine at the Vatican announced Wednesday that they have reached accord on the language of the Comprehensive Agreement toward which they have been working.

The Statement came at the conclusion of their Plenary Session at the Vatican*

more

en.radiovaticana.va/news/2015/05/13/holy_see,_palestine_make_headway_in_comprehensive_agreement/1143847

 

[Darryl1958]

The political gesture is something that a CNN writer is suggesting.

That’s right. The CNN writer is making news in that regard rather than reporting it.

 

[gilliam]

Most of the Christians in the Holy Land consider themselves Palestinian Arabs. That includes the priests and bishops.

 

[Darryl1958]

Most of the Christians in the Holy Land consider themselves Palestinian Arabs. That includes the priests and bishops.

Now they do. That speaks of the success of the Palestinian nationalist movement.

 

[jinglebelle]

A nun on the West Bank in the 1840’s would never have called herself a Palestinian, any more than a Moabite or a Edomite or a Philistine would have.(Well maybe a Philistine would have, but according to a Greek dialect, and not an Arabic one).

In the same way that there have been people living in Canada for thousands of years, like there have been people living in Palestine for thousand of years, generally they are not referred to as Canadians before the creation of Canada.

If the pope is calling these nuns Palestinians, I guess he is making a political statement.
But it would be as historically incorrect as it would be if he were to call Pocahontas an American.

excellent point

 

[friardchips]

*Rome (CNN)They were humble women, servants of God.

And of their fellow men and women in the holy land.

On Sunday, in a canonization laden with significance both religious and political, Pope Francis declared Marie Alphonsine Ghattas and Mariam Baouardy the first two Palestinian saints of modern times.

Some 2,000 Palestinians gathered in the Vatican’s St. Peter’s Square to sing and pray and celebrate their saints. There, they heard the Pope pay tribute to the way in which the two new saints experienced the love of God.

‘Eternal love’

“Sister Mariam Baouardy experienced this in an outstanding way. Poor and uneducated, she was able to counsel others and provide theological explanations with extreme clarity, the fruit of her constant converse with the Holy Spirit. Her docility to the Spirit also made her a means of encounter and fellowship with the Muslim world,” the Pope said.

“So, too, Sister Marie Alphonsine Danil Ghattas came to understand clearly what it means to radiate the love of God … and to be a witness to meekness and unity. She shows us the importance of becoming responsible for one another, of living lives of service one to another,” he said.*

more,

cnn.com/2015/05/17/middleeast/vatican-palestinian-saints/

The thread title reads as if attempting to do secular journalist’s work for them - bringing politics into faith.

I have this crazy notion :newidea: …that maybe the Pope canonised the nuns because they are saints!

 

[Cake_or_Death]

Hi Cake or Death,

Israel has peace treaties, with both Jordan and Egypt. Pope Francis has also meant with Israeli leaders in the past and has been reported to have future plans to meet with Israeli leaders.

Oh indeed, I wasn’t suggesting for one moment that Francis was making any sort of statement there! The journalist appears to have interpreted it that way, kind of understandable really since innocent though it may be even the tiniest gesture like that can tip the already tense diplomatic relations there.

I have this crazy notion :newidea: …that maybe the Pope canonised the nuns because they are saints!

In this case I think that too. I have noticed journalists in recent years are increasingly cynical when it comes to candidates for sainthood though. Particularly since the rush to canonize John Paul II.

 

[friardchips]

In this case I think that too. I have noticed journalists in recent years are increasingly cynical when it comes to candidates for sainthood though. Particularly since the rush to canonize John Paul II.

Cynicism is ripe. True. Secular journalists always seem to be on-the-ready, to latch on to Pope Francis, with mouths agape, drooling with expectation, as they wait for a sentence or some act they can twist and distort to their own catch, and then: “…he did this because…” - and there it is! The thing that amazes me is not them, so much, but rather, that people inside the Church don’t always consider the journalistic bloodhound-thirst for viewing figures! This is before we even make assertions about possible complicity in agenda-based attacks against Christian ethics.