In the context of some non-Catholic Christian religions, is it wrong or a “sin” to honor former U.S. President Abraham Lincoln and was a “sin” committ

[JonNC]

Yeah its nothing special. Mary wasnt in danger of being arrested so she had no reason not to attend the crucifixion.

Catholics give Mary an overload of honors…just because she got lucky (lucky enough to be born without sin & lucky enough to be chosen), and not because she did something extraordinary that that fills the limits of her natural capabilities.

That is so undeserving.

Once again, you miss the point. Mary was chosen by God. She had free will to say no. She instead said yes, for which all of us should be grateful. But the initial choice was made by God himself. If we fail to honor Mary, we minimize God’s choice. The grace He bestowed on her reflects the grace He has bestowed on us.
Maybe Catholics overload her honors. But we non-catholics have
underemphasized her role in God’s plans far too long.

 

[rpp]

Now I understand your question!

Is making a statue of Abraham Lincoln making a graven image.

Too bad I cannot change my vote.

Using the standards of anti-Catholics who claim that Catholics worship the Blessed Virgin Mary and worship statues and icons, then clearly the answer is “Yes, the image is Abraham Lincoln is nothing short of an abominable idolatry.”

 

[rpp]

Yeah its nothing special. Mary wasnt in danger of being arrested so she had no reason not to attend the crucifixion.

Catholics give Mary an overload of honors…just because she got lucky (lucky enough to be born without sin & lucky enough to be chosen), and not because she did something extraordinary that that fills the limits of her natural capabilities.

That is so undeserving.

Once again, you miss the point. Mary was chosen by God. She had free will to say no. She instead said yes, for which all of us should be grateful. But the initial choice was made by God himself. If we fail to honor Mary, we minimize God’s choice. The grace He bestowed on her reflects the grace He has bestowed on us.
Maybe Catholics overload her honors. But we non-catholics have
underemphasized her role in God’s plans far too long.

These are off topic. Please start another thread if you wish to continue.

 

[kim3260]

Getting back to the orginal post, it is not a sin to honor Lincoln, in fact, if it wasn’t for him, I’d need a passport to visit my daughter Thanks Abe:thumbsup:
Honoring ones gone before us is respectful. Don’t people have pictures of loved, in a place of honor in your homes. I do. In fact my MIL’s photo is right next to her Statue of the Blessed Mother. Do I worship it? NO! But it reminds me of her and how she prayed everyday and how she asked the Blessed Mother to pray for her and her family.
I never could understand this line of thinking that if you have an “image” then you worship it.
Worshiping idols is about the people who put these thing ABOVE God. Worshiping is not the same as remembering and honoring as long as God is always first.

 

[graceandglory]

I say this as someone who just visited the Memorial last month and was very moved

I felt the same way when I saw the Liberty Bell last month. Also when I stood in Independence Hall. I felt moved and in awe as I stood at Ground Zero. I have been to Oklahoma City and was touched and inspired by the Memorial there too. Seeing the patriotic emblems inspired me to thank God for my freedom and for the men who died to give me that freedom. Seeing the sites of mass destruction moved me to pray for their souls and pray for my country. (God help us)

Same thing with pictures or statues of Mary and the Saints. They inspire me to pray. Mary’s role is always to point people to the Savior.

I think you have an excellent point that many patriotic Protestants never think of questioning things like this, which are actually far more likely to be real idolatry than the Catholic practices they reject.

Why didn’t I figure this out sooner? :banghead:

 

[Jimmy_B]

You need to read the Bible more, Jimmy, IMO.

And why did you write this? Do you have some personnel knowledge, that I am unaware of, of how much I read or have read the Bible?

You are not falsely judging me, are you?

Are you an “expert” on the Bible? If you were, I believe that you would be a Catholic.

It is not just reading the Bible that is important; it’s reading it, in context and understanding it, in context. Bad or poor interpretation of the Bible is common and has lead to many false teachings, false “prophets” and false “Christian” religions, Jim Jones, and David Koresh come to mind.

How many “Christians” over the years, have said that the “world was going to end” in their lifetime, based on their “reading” the Bible and were wrong? Maybe you don’t understand this.

I go to Catholic Mass every Sunday, so every three years; the Bible is read to me, in context.

BTW, we should all read the Bible often.

Please try again, thank you and have a nice day

 

[Jimmy_B]

And why did you write this? Do you have some personal knowledge, that I am unaware of, of how much I read or have read the Bible?

You are not falsely judging me, are you?

Are you an “expert” on the Bible? If you were, I believe that you would be a Catholic.

It is not just reading the Bible that is important; it’s reading it, in context and understanding it, in context.

Bad or poor interpretation of the Bible is common and has lead to many false teachings, false “prophets” and false “Christian” religions, Jim Jones, and David Koresh come to mind.

How many “Christians” over the years, have said that the “world was going to end” in their lifetime, based on their “reading” the Bible and were wrong? Maybe you don’t understand this.

I go to Catholic Mass every Sunday, so every three years; the Bible is read to me, in context.

BTW, we should all read the Bible often.

Please try again, thank you and have a nice day

 

[Zooey]

My objection to the Lincoln Memorial has nothing to do with religion and/or idolatry, and everything to do with the fact that,IMNSHO, as a US president, Lincoln made a dandy chicken potpie…
Can’t stand the man. Worst president in history. If there was a category for worst than the worst, Lincoln gets my vote for it. (& nothing else…)

All said, to point out that, it is really hard for me to get my head around this question. I’ll try…

There is absolutely nothing wrong with statues and pictures of Mary.
On the other hand,I think the way that we make heroes out of people who have nothing to remember them for, except their politics, is outrageous. It is likely one of the root causes of modern secularism running rampart.:twocents:

I believe I may be a tad contrarian…

 

[1234]

I think that it is very odd that Mary isn’t mentioned more in Acts, or in any of the epistles. IF the Catholic church claims that it is directly descended from the original church, AND the Catholic church holds Mary in high honor–I would say worships her–why don’t the surviving accepted documents of the early church included in the New Testament mention her more often, MUCH more often?

Paul commends himself to many people by name in his epistles, including women. Where is Mary? Had she died? If she had died, why didn’t they venerate her, as Catholics do now, and Paul and the other epistle writers write about her role in salvation, as they did about Jesus?

The only conclusion is that they did not hold her in unusually high honor. Their writings focussed on Jesus.

The emphasis on Mary started to develop later, after Acts and the epistles were written, after their writers, including Paul, had died. Luke, with its story of the annunciation and the magnificat, dates after the Pauline period. IF Mary was so important, certainly the other gospels would have mentioned her more often and included the annunciation and visitation stories.

 

[Pier]

Bottom line is, she did nothing that any other woman could do as well.
What did Mary do that no other women were able to do given the opportunity?

---

Riding all those miles, pregnant, on a donkey - and giving birth in a stable? With nary a complaint?

I couldn’t do it.

 

[mark_a]

In the context of some non-Catholic Christian religions, is it wrong or a “sin” to honor former U.S. President Abraham Lincoln and was a “sin” committed, creating the Lincoln Memorial?

*I asked this, because I have read here at CAF, that some non-Catholic Christians believe that the creation or possession of a small statue of Mary (the mother of God) or the Saints violates a Commandment. So does creating or visiting a very large statue, the Lincoln Memorial, violate the same “Commandment”. *

Does this same “sin” apply to crucifix’s and images of Jesus?

Lincoln had Catholic relatives who supported him and campaigned for him.

So yes, it is wrong to have a memorial to him.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I think that some Anabaptists would say yes. I myself would actually have far more problems with the Lincoln Memorial than with images of Mary or the other saints (not to mention a crucifix). I say this as someone who just visited the Memorial last month and was very moved, but I couldn’t help feeling as if maybe I was committing idolatry.

I think you have an excellent point that many patriotic Protestants never think of questioning things like this, which are actually far more likely to be real idolatry than the Catholic practices they reject.

Edwin

It’s not difficult to imagine the LM being a holy site at which people sleep so that Lincoln can send them dreams about the requests they make of him… ​

More immediately - could attitudes to the flag be regarded as religious ? ISTM the JWs at least are more consistent on this point than the Catholic-baiting variety of US Protestant.

It is not clear how a strict “Bible-only” Protestant can justify patriotism - the NT knows nothing of it; the Christian’s homeland is not on earth at all.

And how does such a Christian tolerate the graven likenesses on coinage ? Or are such likenesses tolerable as long as they aren’t likenesses of “Papists” ?

 

[Brother_John]

Why is it wrong to build a memorial to Lincoln?

Did Jesus not say “Give to Caesar what is Caesars” ???

 

[Contarini]

Yeah its nothing special. Mary wasnt in danger of being arrested so she had no reason not to attend the crucifixion.

Catholics give Mary an overload of honors…just because she got lucky (lucky enough to be born without sin & lucky enough to be chosen), and not because she did something extraordinary that that fills the limits of her natural capabilities.

That is so undeserving.

Yes–we Christians call it “grace.”

Perhaps some day you will decide that you need some. When you do, the doors of the Church are open to receive you (define “Church” however you please!).

Edwin

 

[Jimmy_B]

I think that it is very odd that Mary isn’t mentioned more in Acts, or in any of the epistles. IF the Catholic church claims that it is directly descended from the original church, AND the Catholic church holds Mary in high honor–I would say worships her–why don’t the surviving accepted documents of the early church included in the New Testament mention her more often, MUCH more often?

Paul commends himself to many people by name in his epistles, including women. Where is Mary? Had she died? If she had died, why didn’t they venerate her, as Catholics do now, and Paul and the other epistle writers write about her role in salvation, as they did about Jesus?

The only conclusion is that they did not hold her in unusually high honor. Their writings focussed on Jesus.

The emphasis on Mary started to develop later, after Acts and the epistles were written, after their writers, including Paul, had died. Luke, with its story of the annunciation and the magnificat, dates after the Pauline period. IF Mary was so important, certainly the other gospels would have mentioned her more often and included the annunciation and visitation stories.

1234,
Catholics DO NOT worship Mary!

Your conclusions here are wrong…again…

What do your comments have to do, what so ever with this thread? Your comments are way off topic.

Once again, you have posted bad information which is clearly false. Please provide the basis for your comments instead of making things up, which are clearly false.

Note: I have read your other posts here at CAF, and I know what you are up to…

Would somebody please ban this person, who is clearly promoting an agenda; and while your at it, see if she was banned from here previously, under another user name. It sure appears that way.

 

[Pier]

… the Catholic church holds Mary in high honor–I would say worships her–

Indeed we do honor her - however it is a common and most unfortunate misconception that we worship her, a falsehood perpetuated by some.

Generally speaking, most people do love and honor their mothers, fathers, and other family members. They keep pictures, photo albums, etc.

Not unusual.

Their writings focussed on Jesus.

You answered your own question.

Not only should the writings focus on Jesus, but His mother always points the way to Him, instructing us to ‘Do as He says’…

& that is information that is in the Bible, spoken when Jesus performed His first miracle at the wedding feast in Cana.

 

[1234]

1234,
Catholics DO NOT worship Mary!

Your conclusions here are wrong…again…

What do your comments have to do, what so ever with this thread? Your comments are way off topic.

Once again, you have posted bad information which is clearly false. Please provide the basis for your comments instead of making things up, which are clearly false.

Note: I have read your other posts here at CAF, and I know what you are up to…

Would somebody please ban this person, who is clearly promoting an agenda; and while your at it, see if she was banned from here previously, under another user name. It sure appears that way.

I think that Catholics DO worship Mary, in the common understanding of the word.

All of us have an agenda in posting in this forum–otherwise we wouldn’t post. This is the NON-CATHOLIC forum, Jimmy. We have a right to disagree with you.

No, I was never banned on this forum.

As a matter of fact, you have given me a platform or opportunity to congratulate the moderators of this forum–the entire Catholic forum, for being open-minded and permitting a lot of heated *ad **hominem *postings, like Jimmy’s above. This insures a successful forum, with a lot of posters and points of view.

I am not posting bad information. re conception and infancy stories of antiquity. It is common knowledge that famous accounts written in antiquity of famous people of antiquity shrouded them with legends of their conception, birth, precocious early deeds and miracles. The attribution of Mary’s perpetual virginity is not an early invention. That Jesus was born of a virgin was attributed to him in the early centuries, but there is no comment about perpetual virginity. This idea is Greek and Roman, based on their virgin goddesses, Artemis (Diana) and Athena (Minerva), the latter a very powerful goddess, created by springing directly from Zeus, who defeated the Trojans at Troy. Jews do not value celibacy. Their entire religion centers around the home and family. So this idea could not have come from the Jewish apostles.

And where is Mary? She’s not in the epistles, and mentioned much (at all?) in Acts. Dead or alive, if she were prominent in the early Christian theology, she would have been mentioned, as so many other people were.

And Jimmy, if you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

You should have asked if wishing Liberty and Justice for all is a sin, considering that Ladies Libertas and Justitia are goddesses the Romans worshiped.

 

[Pier]

Mary’s veneration was foretold in the Bible - generations have and do call her blessed, as did our Lord’s messenger…

Honoring a real women is not the same as worshiping a false god or goddess - which btw is one of the top Ten Commandments - God Himself said it’s a no-no…

False idols have been around since forever - all forbidden by the Real One and Only. Like the forbidden fruit, we can be seduced by such falsehoods - it’s happened over and over throughout history, and it’s still going on today…

Mary’s not a goddess, and we don’t worship her, but we do thank God for her, our mother…

Amen.

 

[1234]

You should have asked if wishing Liberty and Justice for all is a sin, considering that Ladies Libertas and Justitia are goddesses the Romans worshiped.

Ha!