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OraLabora
Guest
There are different ways to do this. My way follows Benedictine tradition, which is my spiritual heritage.
In the wake of gay marriage being legal nationwide...my thoughts
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randirhoades
Guest
I thought oh no, here we go. Then thought…If we stand firm in our beliefs, traditions, and God’s word as Catholics we will get through this. NO one will change my beliefs about gay marriage which I think is wrong. And God says it’s wrong in Scripture…Genesis and Leviticus.
I have family members that are gay and have partners. I love my family members as much as ever but still don’t like the fact that being raised Catholics, they know what they do is wrong. And their excuse is, “I didn’t choose being gay, but, that is what I am and I want love too”. They know how I feel about gays marrying. (Love the man, hate the sin)
I want love also, but I’m not going to find the first man I see. And trust me, I’ve had many men want to date me. But, they aren’t Catholics and drink like a fish. And most don’t work. If they do, they drink their paychecks up.
Have faith, stand firm and if it rises…State our opinions. They are a privilege and we have a right to them.
I pray that everyone is doing okay today.
Love, Sheila
I have family members that are gay and have partners. I love my family members as much as ever but still don’t like the fact that being raised Catholics, they know what they do is wrong. And their excuse is, “I didn’t choose being gay, but, that is what I am and I want love too”. They know how I feel about gays marrying. (Love the man, hate the sin)
I want love also, but I’m not going to find the first man I see. And trust me, I’ve had many men want to date me. But, they aren’t Catholics and drink like a fish. And most don’t work. If they do, they drink their paychecks up.
Have faith, stand firm and if it rises…State our opinions. They are a privilege and we have a right to them.
I pray that everyone is doing okay today.
Love, Sheila
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Mystical_Seeker
Guest
Good point!
Exactly. This has precisely zero effect on sacramental marriage.
Divorcees without an annulment can’t have a sacramental marriage. Two of the same sex cannot have a sacramental marriage. None of that has changed. The only difference is that there is now a new “kind” of civil marriage that does not qualify for a sacramental one.
If we had been concerned about the word “marriage” being corrupted, then maybe “civil unions” would have been the way to go. But in politics, if one takes a position of non-negotiation, that will only hold up if you have the power to completely crush the opposing side. Turns our we didn’t; we were on the wrong side of the political power in this one. I asked a gay couple yesterday if they would have been happy with civil union and they said, “if I had the same legal rights then I don’t give a [hoot] what they call it.”
So yes, perhaps if we had allowed “civil unions” then we wouldn’t have to be concerned with redefining marriage. But obviously we will never know that so take that FWIW.
As you said, sacramental marriage is unaffected, and as a Catholic that’s the only kind of marriage that actually exists. Certainly many of us know at least some Catholics who are civilly married but not sacramentally, and therefore are technically “living in sin” according to the Church. Those couples are no more or less “married” according to the Church than civilly married gay couples. The difference here, is that the sins of the gay couple are going to be visible, so if we see them in the communion line it will more likely cause “scandal” than if just “regular” couples who are “living in sin” were to be there.
So for example, if you know a man and a woman who are “married” (and maybe even receiving Communion
) civilly only, then they are sinning against the Church teachings on chastity just as those with SSA acting on their urges are – whether “married” or not.Of course there is a lot of this because frankly the gays had one really good point about the alleged “sanctity” of marriage being lost by allowing gays. When it comes to civil marriage, the heterosexuals did a pretty good job of trashing that so civil marriage doesn’t really mean anything anymore and “until death do us part” is already the exception rather than the rule.
So quit worrying; Jesus told us all this would happen, and Pope Francis certainly saw it coming even when he was calling on Catholics to refocus their attention on issues other than gay marriage and abortion.
For all who intend to be angry about this, you are only hurting yourself.
For those who think God is going to take out cities because there are sinners in them, He is going to have to take out the whole planet. God doesn’t treat people on this earth, differently, because of their sins. That sounds like some fundamental Protestants going off about Hurricane Katrina. Jesus put the kabosh on that thinking during His sermon on the mount, but fundamentalists have their own way of “interpreting” it of course, and apparently some Catholics:
Matt 5:44-46
But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your heavenly Father, for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what recompense will you have? Do not the tax collectors do the same?
So yes there will be earthquakes, but more likely caused by fracking than by gay marriage.
Jesus told us the world would get more corrupt; if it causes us to “lose our peace” than perhaps we never had the peace of Christ in the first place, because obviously the world is not going to give it to us – which is why Jesus distinguished it as peace the world cannot give. Jesus has conquered the world so His peace does not depend on it. So if this causes us a lot of anxiety, then it isn’t because other people are sinning but maybe we really haven’t learned how to rest in Christ at all? 
So really, honestly, what have we lost as Catholics, except the world is not the way we would like it? And if that takes away our peace, we might never have peace during our lifetimes and we have squandered this gift Jesus died for us to have.
So let’s have some faith and trust in Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Father whose will be done “on earth as it is in heaven” whether we like the way it unfolds or not. For those who may not like my point of view, if you take issue with it then I invite you to be very specific about how I am wrong, if in fact I am, so that we both may learn.
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Mystical_Seeker
Guest
That doesn’t sound very good. Where do these guys keep coming from?
Have faith, stand firm and if it rises…State our opinions. They are a privilege and we have a right to them.
I pray that everyone is doing okay today.
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Mystical_Seeker
Guest
First, thank you for starting this thread, because it’s good to examine this from a spiritual standpoint and what our feelings are conveying to us.
As far as rainbows everywhere, nothing has changed the fact that the rainbow is still a reminder of God’s covenant to us that He will not destroy the earth.
Also it comes to mind that the Olympic Flag could remind someone of a rainbow – but as I understand, it was designed to include at least one color from the flag of each participating country. I only know what I hear, though – I mention it because I heard it mentioned by a number of Christians, years back when it was designed.
When something is heavy on your mind, it can make all sorts of connections, but I predict it will get better for you soon.
http://www.sportsintofaith.com/isfs/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Olympic-Flag.jpg
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Peebo
Guest
I don’t agree with same sex marriage because I believe it’s against Gods law…but I also don’t subscribe to the “we’re all doomed” responses echoed here and elsewhere…Scandinavian countries have same sex marriage and have the best lifestyles in the world…God hasn’t wiped them off the face of the planet…how long have we had abortion here in the US…decades…how many tens of millions of babies have been killed here alone…to me abortion is far worse than so called gay marriage…so how many cities has God destroyed here so far…anyone??..ok…none…the bible tells us God is slow to anger…which is probably good for all of us…we haven’t even begun to be persecuted for our faith…look at Christians in the middle east…China etc who have been dispossessed of their homes…imprisoned …tortured and killed for their Christian faith…those people are suffering real Christian martyrdom for their faith…so why hasn’t God destroyed their enemies…even Jesus said the Father alone knows the day and the hour when he will bring our world to final judgement…as Catholics we can oppose those who flaunt Gods laws…we should pray that God will strengthen us in our faith that we will not fail if we are called to publicly proclaim our faith in the case of adversity…crying woe! woe! Gods judgement is upon is not trusting in his word…God is still in control…rather than lament we should pray even harder for those who have been blinded by the ways of the world.
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Mystical_Seeker
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benjohnson
Guest
In my opinion, the Public (Government) Schools in some areas are an indoctrination system to usurp parental modeling of their own children.
Now that same-sex “marriage” is the law of the land, I know how Public Schools will teach on this matter.
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benjohnson
Guest
Scandinavian countries do have leisurely lives - they also (statistically) don’t have children nor do they go to church.
I’ll keep my America if it means having God and family.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
OK, I may be expressing a pessimistic point of view, but please bear with me.
The lawyers and gay activists are already planning their next form of attack and I’ve seen some of the reports on the news yesterday about it’s beginning stage.
Here in MA, we were first to have a judge mandate that gays be allowed to marry.
We have seen some lawsuits against the Church, but the biggest was by the AG against Catholic Charities for refusing to place children with gay couples. The AG drove them out of adoption services. There were other lawsuits brought as well, but I won’t get into the details now.
That being said, the activists were waiting for the SCOTUS to declare marriage of gay couples a right.
Now, they will begin to deploy as they will go to priests, ministers and rabbis and request to be married. When they are refused, the lawsuits will follow.
This is because the clergy act in both the civil capacity and religious, when marrying couples. They are licensed by the state to marry people. This will be removed when they refuse to marry gay couples.
The Clergy will be able to marry couples according to their religious traditions, but their marriage will not be legal without the civil marriage being conducted.
Only the faithful will bother with the religious rites of marriage.
The next step to all this, which I probably won’t be around for is to go after the members of those religious institutions which discriminate against gay marriages. Those members receiving civil services in the way of SS pensions, food stamps or whatever is around at the time, to be denied unless they reject the institution which discriminates against gay people.
I may be over reacting on this issue, but in the former Soviet Union had such a system.
When kids reach the age of 14, they were given the choice of pledging allegiance to the state, or the Church. Those who went with the Church, lost their benefits from the state such as education, employment, healthcare etc. They were left to the Church to support.
It will come here as well, but I believe it will be the next generation which will see it.
The only thing that will turn such events around of course is for people to return to God.
I pray that I’m wrong.
Jim
The lawyers and gay activists are already planning their next form of attack and I’ve seen some of the reports on the news yesterday about it’s beginning stage.
Here in MA, we were first to have a judge mandate that gays be allowed to marry.
We have seen some lawsuits against the Church, but the biggest was by the AG against Catholic Charities for refusing to place children with gay couples. The AG drove them out of adoption services. There were other lawsuits brought as well, but I won’t get into the details now.
That being said, the activists were waiting for the SCOTUS to declare marriage of gay couples a right.
Now, they will begin to deploy as they will go to priests, ministers and rabbis and request to be married. When they are refused, the lawsuits will follow.
This is because the clergy act in both the civil capacity and religious, when marrying couples. They are licensed by the state to marry people. This will be removed when they refuse to marry gay couples.
The Clergy will be able to marry couples according to their religious traditions, but their marriage will not be legal without the civil marriage being conducted.
Only the faithful will bother with the religious rites of marriage.
The next step to all this, which I probably won’t be around for is to go after the members of those religious institutions which discriminate against gay marriages. Those members receiving civil services in the way of SS pensions, food stamps or whatever is around at the time, to be denied unless they reject the institution which discriminates against gay people.
I may be over reacting on this issue, but in the former Soviet Union had such a system.
When kids reach the age of 14, they were given the choice of pledging allegiance to the state, or the Church. Those who went with the Church, lost their benefits from the state such as education, employment, healthcare etc. They were left to the Church to support.
It will come here as well, but I believe it will be the next generation which will see it.
The only thing that will turn such events around of course is for people to return to God.
I pray that I’m wrong.
Jim
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SMH_2015
Guest
It’s not curious at all if you follow Progressive politics. Google the Fabian Society, which was founded over 100 years ago. Few societies would tolerate such massive social change all at once; hence, the plan to whittle away at morality & family structure a tiny bit at a time. Death by a thousand cuts, slowly boiling a frog, etc. Some people like the word “Progressive” because they think, “sure, I’m for progress,” but the true definition means the gradual implementation of something (usually a socialist agenda). Progressives are nothing if not patient.
And for those who think all this “the sky is falling” talk is nonsense, just wait. Yes, churches WILL be forced to perform gay weddings or lose their tax exempt status. If you think the liberal agenda is now complete, think again. Christianity is next; COUNT ON IT.
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Mystical_Seeker
Guest
I don’t see how they can force Catholics to perform gay marriages, but if it did come down to losing tax status, so be it.And for those who think all this “the sky is falling” talk is nonsense, just wait. Yes, churches WILL be forced to perform gay weddings or lose their tax exempt status. If you think the liberal agenda is now complete, think again. Christianity is next; COUNT ON IT.
Of course, losing tax exempt status is pretty compelling because money does talk. The Church has been persuaded to do both the Wrong Thing (simony) and the Right Thing (hold bishops accountable for moving around pedophiles) because of money in the past.
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Peebo
Guest
So are you saying that because you take one line out of what I posted I was somehow supporting those countries…I used those countries as an example of how God hasn’t rained down fire and brimstone on them because they legalized same sex marriage…as some here in the US seem to be fearing is going to befall us…I apologize if my post was too hard for you to understand its meaning
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Mystical_Seeker
Guest
http://www.thinkopine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/skyisfalling.jpgSo are you saying that because you take one line out of what I posted I was somehow supporting those countries…I used those countries as an example of how God hasn’t rained down fire and brimstone on them because they legalized same sex marriage…as some here in the US seem to be fearing is going to befall us…I apologize if my post was too hard for you to understand its meaning
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Digosisenor
Guest
Pharisee ~ (A) ~ one of a group of Jews who thought that they kept all God’s rules. They did not like the things that Jesus taught. They thought that they did not do any wrong things. So, they thought that they were very important and clever.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
Mystical Seeker
The first one’s to lose tax exempt status will be the Catholic and Christian universities which teach against homosexual acts. They’ll be classified as for profit private institutions. This means not only a loss of tax exemption on property and federal taxes, but it will also mean that donations by benefactors will no longer be charitable tax deductions.
The next step will then be Church property.
Jim
They won’t be able to force Catholic priests to perform gay marriages, but they will lose their authority in the civil marriage aspect.
The first one’s to lose tax exempt status will be the Catholic and Christian universities which teach against homosexual acts. They’ll be classified as for profit private institutions. This means not only a loss of tax exemption on property and federal taxes, but it will also mean that donations by benefactors will no longer be charitable tax deductions.
The next step will then be Church property.
Jim
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BlueKnight
Guest
Well Jim then I am hopeful because he government is nearly bankrupt.
Some theologians conjecture that then United States protective stance on Israel is what forestalls our correction.
Some prophetic types believe Israel will attack Iran which will the lead to the dividing of Israel into two state solution. If the US sides with that then the judgements on the United States will be fully released and will include a dividing of the land. This is in keeping with what Anne Catherine Emmerich said.
Biblically speaking god gives a nation a long time to repent. I believe he have the ammonites 400 years.
Bk
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Sarah_B_Good
Guest
Let’s remember that if Justice Scalia had his way, homosexuality could still be criminalized and gay people could be arrested and imprisoned. Ever read his dissent in Lawrence v. Texas? Ironically he made the case for same sex marriage in that dissent:
“If moral disapprobation of homosexual conduct is ‘no legitimate state interest’ for purposes of proscribing that conduct … what justification could there possibly be for denying the benefits of marriage to homosexual couples exercising '[t]he liberty protected by the Constitution?”
So by his own reasoning in 2003, Lawrence v Texas ought to be overturned or gay people ought to have the right to marriage.
“If moral disapprobation of homosexual conduct is ‘no legitimate state interest’ for purposes of proscribing that conduct … what justification could there possibly be for denying the benefits of marriage to homosexual couples exercising '[t]he liberty protected by the Constitution?”
So by his own reasoning in 2003, Lawrence v Texas ought to be overturned or gay people ought to have the right to marriage.
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OraLabora
Guest
This is already the case in many parts of the world, including Europe. France works on this principle. You get the civil marriage first, and then the Church marriage.
And it was like this long before same-sex “marriage” was even on the radar (in fact since 1791 in France). If this happens in the US and Canada, we’ll just be catching up with the rest of the world.
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Rosebud77
Guest
Just had to take a break from of all things a dog forum I was rather enjoying as I found myself staring at a thread " Glad i lived to see the day…" applauding this decision. I had to bite my tongue, say something small and inoffensive that will still be taken offence at , and close it down.
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