In U.S., 46% Hold Creationist View of Human Origins

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RACJ said:
No, they are very much in opposition, if you listen to prominent evolutionists. They are willing to humor believers, but they really believe that a god is unnecessary for creation. If anything, to them, this god is a bystander.
BTW, a church can’t dictate belief on origins to anyone. But it can and does have a position on it, but as others here have said, it borders on cowardice. No hoax has been more pernicious in undermining the faith of Church members than the theory of evolution. :rolleyes: Rob
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I hope you are not implying that the Pope is guilty of cowardice ! Catholics do not take the bible literally as do some Fundamentalists. You, can, I suppose - but Catholics are not mandated to take it literally. The bible is not, and was never meant to be, a science textbook. It talks of spiritual truths, and expounds what we need for salvation. There is no opposition. Truth is truth. Are you willing to say that all science is a lie? Or that some science is a lie? How do you choose what science is truth and what is a falsehood? Some scientists don’t believe in God, and that taints the explanation of their findings. It does not in any way change their discoveries. Other scientists do believe in God, and also believe that the origin of all things came from God. God-directed, God-dictated, God-orchestrated, God-created change over time. That’s all evolution is. Tons of evidence despite what some people say, including transition fossils. (Fossils of any kind are pretty rare, and it’s amazing that we have records of this at all…(do you think we have a God who would plant misleading data for us to find? I think not) Other evolved creatures? No soul. This particular and wonderfully -made and created -over -time-- given a soul when God decided it was time creature? Us. Children of God - a precious creation given a soul and the intelligence to love and worship their creator. No conflict. There is no conflict between science and Catholicism. (Much has been written on it.) That is why I am Catholic and remain Catholic. That’s why I teach in a Catholic High School. That’s why I teach Science in a Catholic High School !!! My room has Catholic sayings on every wall. “God Rules” . An ultrasound picture has a bible quote underneath it. “You are Gods’ Biological Miracle” is displayed in huge letters. Pro-Life poster…etc…We teach evolution in every Catholic high school here. We teach the origin of the universe, coming from that singularity that erupted in what we call the Big Bang (a bit of a misnomer because it started out small, and there was no bang to be heard), but with our loving God as creator. Did you know that the idea of the Big Bang (although it was not given that term yet) came from a Catholic priest/scientist? So many of our scientific principles emanated from Catholic priests, and Catholic scientists. So, there is no opposition, and our Popes know and acknowledge this.
If you choose to believe in creation over 6 days, you are free to do so. But those of us Catholics who find no conflict between God’s word and God’s world are also free to do so, with full blessing of the church. It is most important that we love God and love each other.
 
Ridgerunner said:
…

But then, all of a sudden, as if somebody flipped a switch, people start writing all over the place; on clay, on stone, on paper, on wood, and those writings have survived for thousands of years.

…

I’m not defending the fundamentalist notion of creationism, but one has to admit it’s curious.
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Humans can often miss the obvious for thousands of years and many generations. And good ideas can spread dramatically fast.

One example where humans missed the obvious is the invention of the wheel. The Egyptians built the pyramids without even thinking about using something round to roll stuff on. Another example is the middle ages (who knew the Earth was round) used convoluted methods to estimate its size when the Greeks were able to do it with a deep well and a stick. (Contrary to popular belief the middle ages had a lot of technology and knowledge.)

It makes you wonder what simple knowledge we are missing that someone 100 years from now will say ‘they didn’t know that?!!’.
 
HelenMarie said:
I hope you are not implying that the Pope is guilty of cowardice ! Catholics do not take the bible literally as do some Fundamentalists. You, can, I suppose - but Catholics are not mandated to take it literally. The bible is not, and was never meant to be, a science textbook. It talks of spiritual truths, and expounds what we need for salvation. There is no opposition. Truth is truth. Are you willing to say that all science is a lie? Or that some science is a lie? How do you choose what science is truth and what is a falsehood? Some scientists don’t believe in God, and that taints the explanation of their findings. It does not in any way change their discoveries. Other scientists do believe in God, and also believe that the origin of all things came from God. God-directed, God-dictated, God-orchestrated, God-created change over time. That’s all evolution is. Tons of evidence despite what some people say, including transition fossils. (Fossils of any kind are pretty rare, and it’s amazing that we have records of this at all…(do you think we have a God who would plant misleading data for us to find? I think not) Other evolved creatures? No soul. This particular and wonderfully -made and created -over -time-- given a soul when God decided it was time creature? Us. Children of God - a precious creation given a soul and the intelligence to love and worship their creator. No conflict. There is no conflict between science and Catholicism. (Much has been written on it.) That is why I am Catholic and remain Catholic. That’s why I teach in a Catholic High School. That’s why I teach Science in a Catholic High School !!! My room has Catholic sayings on every wall. “God Rules” . An ultrasound picture has a bible quote underneath it. “You are Gods’ Biological Miracle” is displayed in huge letters. Pro-Life poster…etc…We teach evolution in every Catholic high school here. We teach the origin of the universe, coming from that singularity that erupted in what we call the Big Bang (a bit of a misnomer because it started out small, and there was no bang to be heard), but with our loving God as creator. Did you know that the idea of the Big Bang (although it was not given that term yet) came from a Catholic priest/scientist? So many of our scientific principles emanated from Catholic priests, and Catholic scientists. So, there is no opposition, and our Popes know and acknowledge this.
If you choose to believe in creation over 6 days, you are free to do so. But those of us Catholics who find no conflict between God’s word and God’s world are also free to do so, with full blessing of the church. It is most important that we love God and love each other.
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I believe that the Pope took the easy way out on this issue, possibly for fear of criticism, perhaps b/c he has little understanding of the issues involved. There is NO evidence that paramecia-type organisms have ever developed, through descent (ascent?) into beetles, spiders, birds, giraffes, whales, humans. In fact, acceptance of the theory of macro-evolution has caused caused countless Christians to lose their faith needlessly. People have come to believe that if we are only animals, we need only consider our carnal drives. We as Christians must stand for Truth. :sad_yes: Rob
P.S. I am NOT a young-earth creationist.
 
46% is very high. I find it difficult to believe that there are so many undereducated people
 
RACJ said:
I believe that the Pope took the easy way out on this issue, possibly for fear of criticism, perhaps b/c he has little understanding of the issues involved. There is NO evidence that paramecia-type organisms have ever developed, through descent (ascent?) into beetles, spiders, birds, giraffes, whales, humans. In fact, acceptance of the theory of macro-evolution has caused caused countless Christians to lose their faith needlessly. People have come to believe that if we are only animals, we need only consider our carnal drives. We as Christians must stand for Truth. :sad_yes: Rob
P.S. I am NOT a young-earth creationist.
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Well, your lack of faith in the Pope is likely one of the reasons that you aren’t Catholic.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Yes I know, and I’m half-joking anyway. But think about it. Some prehistoric shepherd is wanting to keep track of how many of his sheep he has. He has to remember it, the births and deaths, and so on. Others in his tribe also have sheep, and the same problem. His cave has soft sandstone walls. He has hard flint blades near to hand. It never occurs to him to simply take the flint and carve at least lines or pocks into the sandstone to keep track. And this guy, we are assured, is as intelligent as we are. He goes his whole life long without ever making it easy on himself by a simple expedient. His kid observes him wrestling with the numbers, but it never occurs to the kid either, his whole life long. And, generation after generation, for thousands of years, nobody thinks to do even that simple thing, let alone make some symbols standing for something like “Lions other side of mountain. Bad place.”

But then, all of a sudden, as if somebody flipped a switch, people start writing all over the place; on clay, on stone, on paper, on wood, and those writings have survived for thousands of years.

I know a person can come up with reasons why, for instance, we find lots of writing that’s 5,000 years old, but none that’s 6,000 or 7,000 or 8,000 years old. But can we really be persuaded by any of those reasons when there’s really no definitive explanation for thousand upon thousands of years when there were Hubbles and Kepplers and Einsteins aplenty, but nobody thought to write a single thing?

I’m not defending the fundamentalist notion of creationism, but one has to admit it’s curious.
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Writing probably was invented here & there at various times but the market wasn’t ready.
For most of our history we have been hunter-gatherers. When some groups started farming that provided the surplus leading to cities, trade, government and taxes, necessitating writing.

As for why no genius invented writing, there was no need. They used oral tradition to pass on knowledge, adding as they went along I am sure. Now that practitioners of Real True Science ™ are taking a new look at primitive/pre-literate/whatever-we’re-calling-them societies it’s astonishing that human can memorise whole encyclopedias of information about their history, genealogy, native flora & fauna, etc. when not crippled by reliance on the written word.
This is notable (to me) because most of the Old Testament was passed down orally before being written down.
 
Undereducated ? I believe GOD created the World… and every living thing/being in it. I did not evolve from an ape.
Jimmygill88 said:
46% is very high. I find it difficult to believe that there are so many undereducated people
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I believe evolution and saying we share a common ancestor with an ape is stupid…humans have immortal souls! Apes do NOT. I don’t believe in the LITERAL 6 days-as-we-know-as-24-hour-days creation…but I do believe that EVERYTHING had God’s hand in it from the forming of the mountains to the caverns and canyons to human beings. Every person is unique from their eyes to their noses to their ears to their shape…

Remmeber, a day to us is 24 hours…to God it could be millions of years! Dinosuars could have been created on the “day” before humans and then become extinct the next day before humans were placed on the earth.

plus, doesn’t evolution also claim everything came from one cell? seriously? everything?

Now there is some evidence of ADAPTATION like tree frogs and animals that can camoflage themselves such as chameleons
 
RACJ said:
Is it really any wonder that the naturalist meme of microbe to man is rejected by those of us who demand proof? The idea that vision, hearing, consciousness, etc, etc evolved over time, given that we know that the vast majority of mutations are destructive to organisms, seems preposterous. I believe that people who espouse Darwinism, in many instances, are those who believe that humanity would live in harmony if only we were unshackled by guilt and God’s law. Thus they have spun a creation fairy tale which seems plausible on the surface, and leaves God out.
Sorry, I will never accept a place at the children’s table in these discussions. I know what they are all about, and it is the dismantling of civilized mores. :hmmm: Rob
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Darn! You have worked it out! The international multi-generational conspiracy extending to virtually every scientist in the world to dismantle civilized mores! Now we will have to find another way to do it.

Seriously Rob, you need an actual explanation for the fact that all living things share DNA and other genetic material, and such material is passed on only by descent. This means it is a fact that species evolved one from the other, and that apparently complex structures, like eyes, evolved. Please consider actually reading some of the science. Darwin himself remains fascinating even at this remove - otherwise try Steven J Gould.
 
Every Catholic is a creationist by definition. The degree is what is questioned.
 
Nec5 said:
This is not a big deal.
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Brief and to the point. And I agree.

Whole I disagree with the creationist viewpoint, I’m at least glad to see folks at least having the gumption to believe something other than the standard “purposeless Darwinian evolution” malarkey the civilized world was supposed to have “accepted” over a century ago…:rolleyes:

Now if we could only get Intelligent Design to be more accepted…👍
 
evolution and creationism are essentially the same thing. Just because we have an idea “how” God created the universe, certainly does not mean that takes His hand out of its creation. It only affirms it.
 
Jimmygill88 said:
46% is very high. I find it difficult to believe that there are so many undereducated people
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I was a well-educated (BA) secular person who had watched a public tv show which showed the complexity of a fly’s eye.

The next day, I realized how incredibly absurd materialist evolution was and began to believe in God.
 
Hokomai said:
Darn! You have worked it out! The international multi-generational conspiracy extending to virtually every scientist in the world to dismantle civilized mores! Now we will have to find another way to do it.

Seriously Rob, you need an actual explanation for the fact that all living things share DNA and other genetic material, and such material is passed on only by descent. This means it is a fact that species evolved one from the other, and that apparently complex structures, like eyes, evolved. Please consider actually reading some of the science. Darwin himself remains fascinating even at this remove - otherwise try Steven J Gould.
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I went to a potter’s shop where there were cups, bowls, plates, etc.

All were made of the same material, yet each was created individually.

The fact that all living beings share DNA does not prove evolution.
 
I believe in evolution as a Biology undergrad who turned to medicine. I’m not trying to be rude, but when you spend years studying evolution at the university level, you understand that it is much more than having ape-like ancestors. All of the gaps haven’t been worked out yet, but as a theory it is very plausible and works well. Also, I believe that the Catholic Church allows for belief in evolution, so I’m not sure why it’s always such a sour subject on this forum.
 
Et_Cetera said:
I believe in evolution as a Biology undergrad who turned to medicine. I’m not trying to be rude, but when you spend years studying evolution at the university level, you understand that it is much more than having ape-like ancestors. All of the gaps haven’t been worked out yet, but as a theory it is very plausible and works well. Also, I believe that the Catholic Church allows for belief in evolution, so I’m not sure why it’s always such a sour subject on this forum.
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The problem is that the gaps that haven’t been worked out yet are those related to macro-evolution, getting from one species to another.
 
jediliz said:
I believe evolution and saying we share a common ancestor with an ape is stupid…humans have immortal souls! Apes do NOT. I don’t believe in the LITERAL 6 days-as-we-know-as-24-hour-days creation…but I do believe that EVERYTHING had God’s hand in it from the forming of the mountains to the caverns and canyons to human beings. Every person is unique from their eyes to their noses to their ears to their shape…

Remmeber, a day to us is 24 hours…to God it could be millions of years! Dinosuars could have been created on the “day” before humans and then become extinct the next day before humans were placed on the earth.

plus, doesn’t evolution also claim everything came from one cell? seriously? everything?

Now there is some evidence of ADAPTATION like tree frogs and animals that can camoflage themselves such as chameleons
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I believe that humans have changed over time. However, humans did not come from a different species. It makes no scientific sense to me. The more I think about evolution, the less sense it makes.

By the way, the word used for “day” did not mean 24 hours. It meant period of time.
 
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