In U.S., 46% Hold Creationist View of Human Origins

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Once again, you should really do at the very least a google search for this evidence before you blindly and ignorantly claim there is none. The library near me literally has a room full of papers from studies and experiments about this.
If you are going to assert something, you need to provide the links.
No one said we need millions of years. We need thousands of generations. You ask these rhetorical questions assuming there is no answer for them, when there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for each of them. Yes, once a change occurs, it tends to get passed on. If the possessor of the change dies before it reproduces, then it does not pass on its trait, obviously. But if the new trait increases survivability or capacity to reproduce, then it has an increased chance to be passed on. Sometimes it doesn’t get passed on, but more often it does, and that’s all that’s needed.
But “dog” is not a species, so this is completely irrelevant and expresses nothing more than a complete and utter ignorance as to what evolution actually is.
Grey wolf would be the species, of which dog is (two) subspecies, afaict. Which makes sense, because dogs and wolves can interbreed and produce offspring which is also capable of reproduction.

Altho there have undoubtedly been thousands of generations of dogs, they are still able to mate with wolves and produce viable offspring: they are still the same species. No macro-evolution has occurred; we started with one species, and we still have only one species.
An interesting sentiment considering, first, that the Church is not authoritative on matters of science, but rather only faith and morals, and two, the church pretty much says that scientists know what they’re talking about, so, in reality, your refusal to trust scientists is, by extension, a refusal to to trust what the Church has to say.
The Church says to trust scientists prudently–the Church does not say to trust scientists *blindly. *So, if we see problems with what scientists are telling us, we have every right not to trust them. Even the Church has not come out and said, Yep, the scientists are right about evolution, believe them. The Church only says that it seems like a viable area of study, unlike things like abc or IVF.
 
I more or less agree (even though I’m probably less appreciative of the actual structure of our universe than you :p).

I read the creation account and see a style of storytelling that’s not much different from those of the ancient Norse, Babylonians, Egyptians, Greeks, Japanese, Indians or any other mythological culture.

Still to say that God went from that and then suddenly gave us the world that’s the less funny version of F.R.I.E.N.D.S. is indeed a mockery of His glory and power.

From my perspective, I have to doubt that our world was ever as awesome as it is in mythological accounts (Biblical or otherwise). People who insist that it are actually saying that God has a lot to answer for every poor nerd whose daydreams are often dashed by the scientific principles that govern our reality.
Actually from a strictly scientific, materialist view point, you are correct. It is very sad to think that even if we mitigate climate change at this point (which is a gigantic IF), then within a billion years the sun will become so hot on its way to self destruction that it will cause runaway warming and total death to all life on earth. It is also very sad to think the universe is expanding and winding down thru entropy, and that long after life on earth dies, even the atoms will disintegrate and break down – death and dissolution.

Which is why I’m so glad I’m a firm believer in God, Heaven, and the spiritual dimension, which is (at least) analytically separate from the material universe. We don’t know much about it, only what Jesus and the prophets have told, and maybe from our own mystical glimpses. But I believe the man who calmed the sea, walked on water, raised the dead, and came back to be with us after his own death (and the simple, sincere peasants who related these stories) even more than I believe the scientists.

I’m thinking Heaven is the opposite of this dying universe. But with St. Therese, who loved God so much that she couldn’t stand the idea of disappointing Him, I would pretend to be extraordinarily awed and thrilled when I get to Heaven, even if it isn’t quite as grand as I think.
 
If you’re telling your students that, please stop teaching. We have enough people being brainwashed by progressives in education at all levels. Your original approach was at least open minded directing students to think for themselves.

And your assertion that you only turn to experts on any matter is laughable at best. One of the hallmarks of progressive thought is the so called tyranny of the experts in which normal thinking adults cannot make decisions without complete reliance on “authorities”. Experts are to be used, but it is foolish to rely exclusively on them, for they are just as flawed as the rest of us.

Rejecting evolution a sin?
Rejecting evolution may well be a sin, if it is correct and the creation stories false. However, there is always a possibility that science is wrong. It is a self-correcting, advancing endeavor, and some things scientists were telling us decades ago have now been replaced with better theories.

I’m glad that the Catholic Church accepts evolution. I perhaps would not have converted if it did not. I cannot live in lies.

Now if science were ever to find out that evolution is totally untrue and in fact God did a presto-chango thing turning dirt suddenly into man, and making woman out of Adam’s rib, then I’d have to go along with that. I do believe in miracles – in fact I believe all is miracle; some miracles have scientific explanations, and some do not…yet.

I do not blindly accept all science. I check some of it out at bit, some very thoroughly, but most I just accept what the experts say – there is just not enough time to check out everything, every pill the doc prescribes, etc. and get a Ph.D. in every field.

I am well aware that some science is corrupt, like when scientists at the Formaldehyde Institute did false science to show that formaldehyde is not harmful to the health – they ended up in prison for that.

It’s good to check out everything, try everything, as St. Paul says.
 
Rejecting evolution may well be a sin, if it is correct and the creation stories false. However, there is always a possibility that science is wrong. It is a self-correcting, advancing endeavor, and some things scientists were telling us decades ago have now been replaced with better theories.

I’m glad that the Catholic Church accepts evolution. I perhaps would not have converted if it did not. I cannot live in lies.

Now if science were ever to find out that evolution is totally untrue and in fact God did a presto-chango thing turning dirt suddenly into man, and making woman out of Adam’s rib, then I’d have to go along with that. I do believe in miracles – in fact I believe all is miracle; some miracles have scientific explanations, and some do not…yet.

I do not blindly accept all science. I check some of it out at bit, some very thoroughly, but most I just accept what the experts say – there is just not enough time to check out everything, every pill the doc prescribes, etc. and get a Ph.D. in every field.

I am well aware that some science is corrupt, like when scientists at the Formaldehyde Institute did false science to show that formaldehyde is not harmful to the health – they ended up in prison for that.

It’s good to check out everything, try everything, as St. Paul says.
Peruse this site, in particular the supporting resources page. Your eyes will be opened.
 
lynnvinc;9452361**:
Rejecting evolution may well be a sin, if it is correct and the creation stories false.
However, there is always a possibility that science is wrong. It is a self-correcting, advancing endeavor, and some things scientists were telling us decades ago have now been replaced with better theories.
Since rejecting a fact is not a sin, and since we have no proof that macro-evolution is true, I think it is presumptuous of you to mention, esp to students, that “rejecting evolution **may well be **a sin.” Putting it in the present tense implies that it would be a sin *now, *even with your rather weak However… possiblity…
 
Wolves and dogs are able to be mated.
Yes, and yet a different species. Hence, the species problem.
I see.
With a definition so fluid, I guess it would be impossible to prove false.
Not at all. It’s easy to prove false, ironically, by finding exactly what you thought evolution was - an immediate jump from one species to another, i.e. a dog birthing a cat. This is why we get so frustrated all the time, because you guys keep on complaining about us not having proof of evolution, and the proof for evolution you so often request (one species giving birth to another), would actually DISprove evolution, so all you really do is reveal that you haven’t the slightest clue what evolution really is.
But then again, with a definition so fluid, the theory becomes meaningless.🤷
Again, not at all. Stop looking at things eagerly trying to find any little error. If you do that, you will always find error, even where there is none.
 
Please describe whether you’re talking about speciation evolution or adaptive evolution.
There is no distinction. There is just evolution. Evolution causes speciation through generations and it is, by its nature, adaptive.
 
I only have the words to go by.
Perhaps you have something else?
Having the words to go by and understanding the writer’s intent are two different things. All I can say is that scientists tend to write a bit differently, for lack of a better term, and better understanding comes with experience reading the type of stuff they write. You also need an open mind, which I think you have, but I know some people around here do not have.
 
I don’t know if you really understood what I was talking about.
My apology. You are right. I really didn’t understand. Most likely, it is because I have some different views of creationism, Catholicism, and the evolution model when it comes to the first three chapters of Genesis. To me, the rest of Genesis is not in the same category as human origin.
 
Your inability to back what you claim is noted.
Hey, jerk, did I say I was unable? No. I just have other stuff to do right now. Don’t accuse me of the exact opposite of what I said. What are we, bickering five year olds? I said, quite clearly, that I will get to it, but that it will take time because I have more important things to do right now. :mad:
 
Once again, you should really do at the very least a google search for this evidence before you blindly and ignorantly claim there is none. The library near me literally has a room full of papers from studies and experiments about this.

No one said we need millions of years. We need thousands of generations. You ask these rhetorical questions assuming there is no answer for them, when there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for each of them. Yes, once a change occurs, it tends to get passed on. If the possessor of the change dies before it reproduces, then it does not pass on its trait, obviously. But if the new trait increases survivability or capacity to reproduce, then it has an increased chance to be passed on. Sometimes it doesn’t get passed on, but more often it does, and that’s all that’s needed.

But “dog” is not a species, so this is completely irrelevant and expresses nothing more than a complete and utter ignorance as to what evolution actually is.

An interesting sentiment considering, first, that the Church is not authoritative on matters of science, but rather only faith and morals, and two, the church pretty much says that scientists know what they’re talking about, so, in reality, your refusal to trust scientists is, by extension, a refusal to to trust what the Church has to say.
Nice dodge.

usatoday.com/tech/science/2007-04-12-pope-evolution_N.htm

“The Church has infallibly determined that the universe is of finite age—that it has not existed from all eternity—but it has not infallibly defined whether the world was created only a few thousand years ago or whether it was created several billion years ago.”

Now and in the future, whenever this subject is brought up, I will stick with the Church. For this subject, science continues to lose credibility. I will, however, continue to monitor future developments in all of the sciences.

Peace,
Ed
 
If you are going to assert something, you need to provide the links.
Because the presence of links is indicative of the truth of something? Tell me, how, exactly, am I supposed to link to a room full of physical papers? The internet is great, but it’s not THAT great yet. Some educated people still prefer to physically write things down, you know.
Grey wolf would be the species, of which dog is (two) subspecies, afaict. Which makes sense, because dogs and wolves can interbreed and produce offspring which is also capable of reproduction.
Ok. You’re understanding how species work, but now look at what is called “ring species” and you begin to understand the species problem: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species We also have to worry about horses and donkeys, because they can breed and produce mules, yet mules cannot themselves breed, so are they a different species or not? Lions and Tigers too. And then lets backtrack, because for centuries mules were though to be unable to breed, and then, on extremely rare occasion, we have discovered that they do, in fact, successfully breed, yet their parent species are clearly distinct. And different plant species are crossed all the time, and they produce fertile seed. Many biologists, thus, would argue that “wolf” and “dog” are different species despite being able to breed, while others, of course disagree. Hence, the blurry line. Our knowledge is no less because of it, it is simply causing difficulty in categorizing and organizing.
Altho there have undoubtedly been thousands of generations of dogs, they are still able to mate with wolves and produce viable offspring: they are still the same species. No macro-evolution has occurred; we started with one species, and we still have only one species.
There is no “macro-evolution” the way you’re thinking. It is an imaginary term. It is also a prime example of moving the goal posts. I have had this conversation many times before, and every time I give an example, the goal posts get moved on me and my opponent says “but they’re still both cats”, etc. So I go higher and higher up in the animal classification system, and all the while I hear “but they’re still both…” Even providing examples of one bacteria evolving into another produces cries of “but they’re still both bacteria”, despite bacteria being all the way up to a domain, being the highest and broadest classification rank below “life”, which is really not a classification in itself.

Hence, I have to ask for a rather specific and unmovable line as to what you would call an example of “macro-evolution”, since the definition creationists give for it so often wildly varies and gets changed mid-conversation in my experience, I can’t really respond adequately until I get it absolutely defined.
The Church says to trust scientists prudently–the Church does not say to trust scientists *blindly. *So, if we see problems with what scientists are telling us, we have every right not to trust them. Even the Church has not come out and said, Yep, the scientists are right about evolution, believe them. The Church only says that it seems like a viable area of study, unlike things like abc or IVF.
True. But then you should “test all things”, which includes your own thinking. So ask yourself - these scientists, who are actually sticking to science (as opposed to postulating about the necessity of a deity to start the universe, which crosses into philosophy), go through a 4 year undergrad program, 2 years of grad school, and then another 4-6 to get their doctorate, and then spend years and decades doing experiements, teaching, going to conferences, producing and reading papers, and generally centering their lives and careers around biology and evolution - how is it that you, without any of that, understand evolution better? Does it really make any sense that hundreds of thousands of scientists all over the world, spending decades studying evolution would miss something that you have discovered without any training or education, without any experimentation, and with nothing more than a computer that has access to the internet? Or is it more logical that they have studied the very objections you bring forth, and answered and refuted them decades ago, and that you simply have not seen those explanations? (I would posit because many creationist “leaders” all over the internet are adamant and tell you repeatedly that such explanations don’t exist so as to convince you not to bother to look for them)
 
Peruse this site, in particular the supporting resources page. Your eyes will be opened.
No they won’t. As I have already explained to buffalo, though he has as of yet refused not just to listen, but to even so much as acknowledge the lengthy explanations that I have typed in the past, half his sources don’t even come close to saying what he wants them to say, and the other half are not really sources at all.
 
This diagram shows in the area of intersection, faith and reason cannot be opposed. It also shows the weakness of human reasoning.

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/picture.php?albumid=639&pictureid=7720
I think I said it before, but based on this diagram, buffalo, as far as I can tell, it’s not describing your IDvolution. It’s describing theistic evolution. At least that’s exactly how most religious believers see theistic evolution - as a merger of faith and reason.
 
Nice dodge.

usatoday.com/tech/science/2007-04-12-pope-evolution_N.htm

“The Church has infallibly determined that the universe is of finite age—that it has not existed from all eternity—but it has not infallibly defined whether the world was created only a few thousand years ago or whether it was created several billion years ago.”

Now and in the future, whenever this subject is brought up, I will stick with the Church. For this subject, science continues to lose credibility. I will, however, continue to monitor future developments in all of the sciences.

Peace,
Ed
I’m dodging?! You respond to absolutely nothing I say and instead accuse me of a dodge and cite an article about the universe being finite, which had absolutely nothing to do with anything I said. Please actually address what I wrote in the future and look in the mirror if you want to see someone dodging. If you can’t adequately respond to what I said yet because you don’t know of an adequate response, then have the decency to tell my that you’ll have to think about it and get back to me. Slinging accusations to bring into question my credibility so you don’t have to respond is just plain childish.
 
Please show the number of morphological changes necessary.
To go from a deer-like animal to a whale? I have no idea but I’d think there were quite a few. Are you saying that makes it unlikely? If so I’d say it’s a much shorter jump from deer to whale than all animal life evolving from a bacterium. Yet that apparently is what happened. I take it you don’t believe that either.

From what I can tell, you seem to be unable to face basic scientific facts, sir.
 
Yes, and yet a different species. Hence, the species problem.
Seems to me the species problem has more to do with fluid definitions then with actual science.
No one seems willing or able to concretely nail down a definition for species.
Not at all. It’s easy to prove false, ironically, by finding exactly what you thought evolution was - an immediate jump from one species to another, i.e. a dog birthing a cat. This is why we get so frustrated all the time, because you guys keep on complaining about us not having proof of evolution, and the proof for evolution you so often request (one species giving birth to another), would actually DISprove evolution, so all you really do is reveal that you haven’t the slightest clue what evolution really is.
How about we start with a concrete definition for what exactly a species is?
Evolution theory claims to have the answers for how a species comes about, it follows then that evolution theory would have a concrete definition for species.
Again, not at all. Stop looking at things eagerly trying to find any little error. If you do that, you will always find error, even where there is none.
Who said anything about eagerness.
I simply do not accept an answer that does not make sense.
 
To go from a deer-like animal to a whale? I have no idea but I’d think there were quite a few. Are you saying that makes it unlikely? If so I’d say it’s a much shorter jump from deer to whale than all animal life evolving from a bacterium. Yet that apparently is what happened. I take it you don’t believe that either.
If you cannot define the number of steps, how can it be claimed that one actually leads to the other?
 
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