In U.S., Hispanics bring Catholicism to its feet

[Wisdom]

Scott Hahn teaches at a college known to be Catholic and Charismatice the University of Stubenville of Ohio most of their staff is Catholic Charismatic and they are ubber faithful to the magesterium. I think we have a lot of gringo catholic here that lovers of the Latin Mass nothing wrong with that but those servicesa and churchs are not bursting at the seems in Latin America heck they can’t draw latin flies. Latin people are charismatic and emotional by nature and if the theology is according to the magesterium and I don’t see how its not then if watched carefully this is answer for stopping the tide going toward pentacostalism. And according to surverys the tide has turned because of the catholic chrarismatic movement and if that keeps people in the church receiving the grace of the sacraments and getting catholic moral theology instead of the healthy and wealth gospel then a little of the pentacostal movement we see in Acts is alright. Remeber the first Pentacostals were catholics unless you don’t beleive the apostles and Mary were not catholics the bible says they spoke in tongues and so forth. Look their is certainly room for abuse in the movement but hey you can find abuse in the regular liturgies we find in the USA there should be watchdogs on the movement but it should be allowed to thrive given certain restrcitions.

 

[Sabda]

Scott Hahn teaches at a college known to be Catholic and Charismatic the University of Stubenville of Ohio most of their staff is Catholic Charismatic and they are ubber faithful to the magesterium. I think we have a lot of gringo catholic here that lovers of the Latin Mass nothing wrong with that but those services and churchs are not bursting at the seems in Latin America heck they can’t draw latin flies. Latin people are charismatic and emotional by nature and if the theology is according to the magesterium and I don’t see how its not then if watched carefully this is answer for stopping the tide going toward pentacostalism. And according to surverys the tide has turned because of the catholic charismatic movement and if that keeps people in the church receiving the grace of the sacraments and getting catholic moral theology instead of the healthy and wealth gospel then a little of the pentacostal movement we see in Acts is alright. Remember the first Pentacostals were catholics unless you don’t believe the apostles and Mary were not catholics the bible says they spoke in tongues and so forth. Look their is certainly room for abuse in the movement but hey you can find abuse in the regular liturgies we find in the USA there should be watchdogs on the movement but it should be allowed to thrive given certain restrictions.

That’s just it! If you look at Acts carefully you’ll find that the purpose of speaking in tongues was for evangelization. The speaking in tongues that Mary and the apostles did was in the languages of the people not some language that no one on earth could understand. Many Charismatics are not doing this for the purpose of evangelization. If you check 1 Corth 14 (pay particular attention to verses 1 - 33) St Paul is very clear on the proper way to do this. Many Charismatics (in my experience) are not doing this the way the Bible lays out. They are doing the very thing that St Paul got onto the Corinthians for.

 

[Wisdom]

I am not in the charismatic movement so someone who is should address your objection all I can see is that the past two popes are okay with this and this seems to have stopped the tide of pentacostal converts from catholcism in Latin america which previous to the charismatic movement in catholic circles was moving millions of sheep in a very short period of time. If the movement has kept catholic receiving the sacraments that is a good fruit it would seem as to the particulars of the movement I cannot address as I don’t know much about it.

 

[otjm]

Bringing people to Christ? Protestants bring people to Christ. What about bringing folks to the Catholic Church.
Revitalization? Are you going to be talking in tongues?
That is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard of. I’ve always been so proud of the Church for not doing this crazy stuff. What’s next? Are they going to start healing people at the Sanctuary?
That ain’t Catholic. That’s Jimmy Swaggert. Trinity Brodcast Network. Benny Hinn. Give me a break.

What - you think they only get cured at Fatima?

I mean, who cures people? Last time I heard the Church say anything about it, it was Christ who was doing the curing. Heaven help us they should be cured in the sanctuary, where Christ is!

 

[otjm]

That’s just it! If you look at Acts carefully you’ll find that the purpose of speaking in tongues was for evangelization. The speaking in tongues that Mary and the apostles did was in the languages of the people not some language that no one on earth could understand. Many Charismatics are not doing this for the purpose of evangelization. If you check 1 Corth 14 (pay particular attention to verses 1 - 33) St Paul is very clear on the proper way to do this. Many Charismatics (in my experience) are not doing this the way the Bible lays out. They are doing the very thing that St Paul got onto the Corinthians for.

You might want to read the New Testament a little more carefully. One of the reasons for the gift of tongues was evangelization; another was prayer.

 

[rien]

What - you think they only get cured at Fatima?

Exactly!!! There are cures at Fatima, in Islam, in Pentacostalism and in New Age. Obviously “cures” do not equate to Truth as all these cure sources claim different spiitualities. If anything there seems to be more cures in Pentacostalism now.

 

[OriginalJS]

One thing that I and others have noticed is that most Penecostals/Evangelicals that convert to the Church are far **more **traditional than your average cradle Catholic. It’s the cradle Catholics that are going Charismatic. I have serious reservations about this movement. Was the speaking in tongues in the first several centuries of the early Church the same as the speaking in tongues that we have today? Reading the Bible I would have to say for the most part no. Second there are far to many Charistmatics out there that are not biblical in the approach to speaking in tongues. The Bible is quite clear on the proper way to do this and many are not following the Bible on this. That alone should really make you wonder if it’s truly from the Holy Spirit.

This is what I believe to be an accurate observation. Fifty years ago charismatic members of the Assembly of God and Catholics were living in different worlds. Times have changed Now a number of the charismatics have come to Catholicism seeking more charisma and they say they are finding it. Jeff Cavins, now a Catholic apologist here in the Twin Cities, has a protestant background. Pentacostalists are charismatics and we can expect a number to convert over time.

It seems to me a lot of cradle Catholics have no idea of the immense charismatic feast the Church will serve up to those who come to the table. It has always been there. For a start I suggest reading Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross.

Whether all the practices converts bring with them are licit, I don’t know.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I’m still trying to see what the downside is, in the article the OP’er’s posted that has caused such debate.

People praising Jesus, is not good?

Jim

 

[jc-servant]

I’m still trying to see what the downside is, in the article the OP’er’s posted that has caused such debate.

People praising Jesus, is not good?

Jim

I think that some critics are focused only on the more “sensational” aspects of the charismatic movement.

I’m not part of any formal charismatic group nor did I convert from a pentecostal type of background. My first real attention to the Holy Spirit came as I studied to become Catholic! I used to think that only fake TV preachers called down the Holy Spirit and that if someone was “slain in the spirit” (which is a term I didn’t learn until I became Catholic) that it was a big fake show to draw attention to themselves. I thought all of this until I had such an experience myself in the same year that I came into the church. Me, the skeptic who wanted to pray silently in a corner and not draw attention!

I had just been through mass in a beautiful little chapel at a Catholic retreat with a ministry team that I was joining. We were going to have an hour or two of adoration before the Blessed Sacrament. Father asked that anyone who wanted to ask for the Holy Spirit to bless them with gifts they would need for the upcoming year of ministry to come forward. I really thought that I was ill-equipped for the ministry and I really wanted whatever God wanted to give me, but I was even too afraid to get off my knees and go up for a simple blessing.

I was praying for the grace to get up when the person being prayed over by Father suddenly fell over backward. A couple of men standing behind them caught the person, but I was really freaked out! I started having this internal conversation with God where I said that I really, really wanted His help, but oh not like that! I just wanted to be prayed over and then return to kneeling before the altar on the floor quietly like the other people had done.

Well, I believe that this was a changing point for my life when I had to truly let go of pride, fear and anything else standing between me and God to allow Him to truly work in me and through me. I finally surrendered my will and said, “Your will Lord, not mine.”

I only heard the first few words of the blessing before I apparently went right over to the floor. I want to say right here that I am not a suggestible or hysterical person. I have never been able to be hypnotised or anything like that because I like to be in control. It makes me feel safe.

I knew nothing until I felt hands under my back and got lowered to the floor. I felt the Holy Spirit rushing through me and over me repeatedly. All of the fear and anxiety of only a moment earlier was gone. I felt serene and warm and safe and I knew that God was with me no matter what. I could not physically move for at least several minutes.

One of the men who caught me asked me about the experience later. They had barely kept me from hitting the floor because I went over so unexpectedly.

I was given gifts that I did not previously have that allowed me to minister to youth at my parish. I still would not particularly call myself “charismatic” except that I can witness to the power of the Holy Spirit in a way that most people never experience personally. I think I was gifted in this way not because I was worthy of such a gift but precisely because I was broken and needed it.

I was privileged to receive an invitation later that year from the RCIA ministry team to share my conversion story with the new group of catechumens and candidates on our January retreat. I felt like my story was nothing special. (They didn’t know about this earlier experience.) However, this was obviously part of God’s plan.

On the morning that I was to speak to the group, the team was rushed and didn’t pray with me before my name was announced. I was in a panic even though I’ve done lots of public speaking. I literally ran to the back of the room, already wearing the microphone pack to get some prayer support. The RCIA director half-jokingly said, they were going to ask for the Holy Spirit to help me but they didn’t have time for me to fall over. Well who knew how close he would be to the truth.

I was blessed to feel the Holy Spirit descend on me once more. It felt like liquid sunshine and peace pouring over me, starting from beneath that very holy man’s hands. No one was more surprised than me! I remember asking him, “did you feel that?” and he just smiled and said, yes, now go on up. I wanted the Holy Spirit to speak through me to reach those people and He did because I only got memory of bits of my talk after people came up later and mentioned specific things I had said that especially touched them. If that is a fruit of the charismatic movement, then I say so be it.

 

[Holly3278]

This is great! As a Charismatic Catholic myself, I fully support this! Praise God! :dancing: :extrahappy:

 

[Qwikness]

What - you think they only get cured at Fatima?

I mean, who cures people? Last time I heard the Church say anything about it, it was Christ who was doing the curing. Heaven help us they should be cured in the sanctuary, where Christ is!

You really believe these Benny Hinn is curing these people?
Do you believe wrestling is real too?

I guess somebody believes in otherwise there wouldn’t be a market for it.

Seeing those people line up for the preacher to slap them in the head and yell, “HEAL”
is quite a display.

 

[Godi]

One of the nice things about the Catholic Church is that it really is universal. A wide variety of styles and viewpoints can be comfortably accommodated.

Amen. We could bring in beer & pretzels, have a mariachi band, table dancing on the Altar. What are you people thinking? Do you go to Mass to be entertained? Sounds like some of you would rather have Mass at Hooters.:mad:

 

[otjm]

Amen. We could bring in beer & pretzels, have a mariachi band, table dancing on the Altar. What are you people thinking? Do you go to Mass to be entertained? Sounds like some of you would rather have Mass at Hooters.

So we should assume that you are White Anglo Saxon Northern European Catholic, and that is the absolute standard world wide?

Do you even know that the Catholic Church is not the Roman Catholic Church? That it contains approximately 22 rites, of which the Roman rite is only one? And that the Church itself has looked with favor upon cultural expressions through its Liturgy?

Did anyone say anything about being entertained? I must have missed that post…

 

[mdgspencer]

I think this an important principal for Church unity–in essentials, unity, in other things diversity. There is room for both charismatics and those who are not, just as long as they follow essentials, which include Catholic dogma of course. Such diversity includes quite different spiritualities as seen in various religious orders, different rites, including Byzantine rite Catholics, who have the same liturgy as the orthodox, and Catholicism in Latin America which is quite different, more impassioned, from the Anglo-Saxon tradition which has been historically prevalent in Catholicism in the United States. I shudder to think that anyone would consider any of these things not Catholic.

 

[Godi]

So we should assume that you are White Anglo Saxon Northern European Catholic, and that is the absolute standard world wide?

Do you even know that the Catholic Church is not the Roman Catholic Church? That it contains approximately 22 rites, of which the Roman rite is only one? And that the Church itself has looked with favor upon cultural expressions through its Liturgy?

Did anyone say anything about being entertained? I must have missed that post…

White Anglo Saxon Northern European Catholic??? Please no racist comments.

 

[otjm]

White Anglo Saxon Northern European Catholic??? Please no racist comments.

And your comments weren’t a subtle form of racism? Are you even aware of what you really said?

 

[Godi]

And your comments weren’t a subtle form of racism? Are you even aware of what you really said?

This is about faith, reverance and the Catholic Church, please redirect racist remarks to another forum.

 

[otjm]

This is about faith, reverance and the Catholic Church, please redirect racist remarks to another forum.

That is exactly what this is about, and I am suggesting that your comments are suspect. You seem to have no tolerance of anything in the liturgy which is different from what a European or North American (Canada and US; Central America excluded) would expect. You seem to have no tolerance for any cultural impact on the Liturgy, while the Church has spoken about cultural impacts favorably. Trying to say that I am making racist remarks is simply ducking the issue. Are you tolerant of cutural variations in the Liturgy or not?

 

[mdgspencer]

I hope this doesn’t turn into a flame war, which would be hardly worthwhile.
I think the comments are interesting, but they could go over the edge.

 

[Qwikness]

Are these charasmatic services considered masses? Or are they something different like a revival or praise type thing? Has anyone had any experience with these? I haven’t. They seem very foreign to me. (And not because they are Hispanic).
They speak in tounges and heal. Do they believe in the Rapture?