In what ways can Protestants accept papal primacy today?

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AugustTherese said:
Peter alone deserved to represent the whole Church”. You are seemingly wanting to deny what that statement means because the words ‘jurisdiction’ and ‘universal’ are not used. That would be synonymous to a JW arguing against the Trinity because that precise word does not appear in Scripture.
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You are seemingly want to add the modern “developments “ to his words. Nicaea canon 6, none of the seven ecumenical councils of the Church provide for any Bishop a supremacy of jurisdiction. No where. Your Kelly quote points that out, that it is a “development”. And it is the primary cause of the Schism.
 
AugustTherese said:
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JonNC:
You keep trying to spin St. Augustine into a post Trent, post Vatican I apologist.
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Projection. I quote him verbatim and I am spinning him?!?! Please!
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Then quote him, but don’t imply meanings he could never had known.
 
They can take a look at true history, not heir revisionist history, and submit themselves to the Supreme Pontiff at once.
 
semper_catholicus said:
They can take a look at true history, not heir revisionist history, and submit themselves to the Supreme Pontiff at once.
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Sure, by that wasn’t the question of the thread.
The question of the thread is: In what ways can Protestants accept papal primacy today?

While it is folly to speak of Protestants as a group (they never have been one communion), one can make the generalization that, joined by all of the rest of Christendom not in communion with the Bishop of Rome, they do not accept the “development “ known as papal supremacy.
So, what you’ve done is simplistically mention what they can’t do regarding supremacy to answer a question about what they can do regarding primacy.
These are two different subjects.
They cannot, for the most part, accept supremacy, but as I mentioned earlier in the thread, some can acknowledge and honor his primacy.
 
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JonNC said:
Nicaea canon 6, none of the seven ecumenical councils of the Church provide for any Bishop a supremacy of jurisdiction. No where.
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Canons of Ecumenical Councils aren’t promulgated to arbitrarily define unchallenged doctrines; they are decreed to anathematize relevant heresies while substantiating relevant tenets of the faith handed down through Tradition. Why don’t you show me from any source where Eastern Conciliarism has any jurisdicial supremacy in the first 1,000 years of Christendom!

Speaking of the First Council of Nicaea:

“Hosius and the legates were the first to sign the decrees of the Council. In fact, says historian Luke Rivington, the Graeco-Russian liturgy, in the office for Pope Sylvester, speaks of him as actual head of the Council of Nicaea: “Thou hast shown thyself the supreme one of the Sacred Council, O Initiator into the sacred mysteries, and hast illustrated the Throne of the Supreme One of the Disciples.”
 
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AugustTherese said:
Canons of Ecumenical Councils aren’t promulgated to arbitrarily define unchallenged doctrines; they are decreed to anathematize relevant heresies while substantiating relevant tenets of the faith handed down through Tradition.
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Exactly. Which shows that there was no need to speak about universal jurisdiction, much less infallibility ex cathedra, since these were not a thing. Canon 6 clearly indicates the equality of jurisdiction of, for example, Alexandria and Rome.
Your quote is, again, an attempt to reach back and place a modern “development” into the words that were not meant to express that thought.
AugustTherese said:
Why don’t you show me from any source where Eastern Conciliarism has any jurisdicial supremacy in the first 1,000 years of Christendom!
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The seven ecumenical councils have no authority now?
 
JonNC said:
While it is folly to speak of Protestants as a group (they never have been one communion), one can make the generalization that, joined by all of the rest of Christendom not in communion with the Bishop of Rome, they do not accept the “development “ known as papal supremacy.
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JonNC, you are correct about this. However, you might be confusing the way protestants look at the Catholic Church and papal authority with the way Eastern Orthodox looks at the same subject. Protestants do not even consider development of the Catholic Church. Protestants for the most part just look to 1517 and developments after that; with a bible in one hand, and the Catholic Church in the rearview mirror. Protestants for the most part remain woefully obtuse to early church councils, early writings etc. Those developments were under the construct of a Catholic church and therefore are not encouraged readings, in my experience anyway. So you see, the method for getting a Protestant to consider any church authority, much more Catholic papacy, is a very different discussion than getting Eastern Orthodox to do the same.
 
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What a wonderfully broad brush you paint with. Clearly your argument does not take into account the writings of the reformers themselves.
 
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It is a broad brush. I’m speaking mostly of current protestants, such as my former self that knew nothing of the Catholic Church or its early writings prior to the reformation. I understand some are more informed, but the majority I knew, had their bible, their Matthew Henry commentaries, their preacher, and Billy Graham. That’s all that was needed.
 
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JonNC said:
Which shows that there was no need to speak about universal jurisdiction, much less infallibility ex cathedra, since these were not a thing.
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No! There was no need to mention that which was universally accepted and unchallenged. The Eastern Churches accepted the supremacy of Rome and even went to Rome for help exterminating heresies among those that sprung up from the East. You are wanting an explicit verbiage from an Ecumenical Council stating that which was unchallenged at the time. And, then, when it was challenged and the Orthodox excommunicated, then they conveniently do not accept any Ecumenical Council following. It’s perfectly analogous to a Protestant claiming every Ecumenical Council after Trent is not a true Council.
JonNC said:
Canon 6 clearly indicates the equality of jurisdiction of, for example, Alexandria and Rome.
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“[Let Alexandria have jurisdiction over these provinces, because the Roman Bishop has also a Patriarchate].”

That is how you want the Canon to read. You are infusing an Eastern Orthodox understanding into the context. You are the one placing an Eastern Orthodox, 2nd millennium development into a Catholic Church Council.
JonNC said:
The seven ecumenical councils have no authority now?
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Absolutely they do! I’m asking you to provide me evidence where they alone have supremacy.
 
Hodos said:
What a wonderfully broad brush you paint with. Clearly your argument does not take into account the writings of the reformers themselves.
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You have left many unanswered questions throughout many threads.

🧐
 
No I haven’t. You just keep asking the same questions multiple ways and reject the answer. I am fine with that. I feel no compulsion to have to continue to entertain absurdity because you think you are entitled to a different answer.
 
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Hodos said:
No I haven’t. You just keep asking the same questions multiple ways and reject the answer. I am fine with that. I feel no compulsion to have to continue to entertain absurdity because you think you are entitled to a different answer.
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I asked you to simply define Semi-Pelagianism when you falsely accused me of practicing it. You entirely ignored the question because you either realized the claim was bogus or you don’t know the proper definition of what that heresy is; one that which Our Church anathematized, the only Church that has ever anathematized any and all heresies.
 
Didn’t see your question. I am sure you are very capable of looking it up.
 
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