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Theinvisibleman
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In your opinion why do you think the catholic church isn’t as successful at converting or keeping members than protestant denominations, such as the pentecostals and the mormons ?
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xmydreamsfadex
Guest
as a convert to the CC and living in the bible belt, speaking from my own view growing up and some of my peers, the CC is seen as an insensitive institution who killed people, does “unchristian” things, supports unpractical views (ie: contraception, abortion, etc…) and uses mind control over it’s flock. of course there are more things that people hold against the church but a lot of their beliefs come from mis-information. no one witnessed to me to become a Catholic as the baptists do around here, God called me to learn about it i believe. one thing i admired about the CC was it’s history and it’s intellectual teachings. it made more sense to me than my own baptist pastors views. i’ve tried to discuss CC teachings with family and friends but either out of ignorance or predudice they always end up saying something about how Mary has nothing to do with anything or purgatory isn’t in the bible. oh well.
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Cat
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I think Satan works a lot harder in the Catholic Church than he does in other churches because it is the Church that Jesus founded and he hates it.
We have so many statues of saints. I realize this is probably sacrilege, but wouldn’t it be interesting if Catholics could see “Satan” hiding outside the church doors waiting to snatch away what they have obtained in mass? Maybe then we’d wake up and be alert.
We often pray the Prayer to St. Michael after masses during the week. I wish we would pray it after every mass, but I guess people just start ignoring after a while. Too bad.
During the Easter vigil when I was confirmed into the Catholic Church, I had a “vision.” I could see (just for a millisecond) thousands of demons outside our church. They were pounding on the roof and at the windows, but they couldn’t get in because thousands of saints and angels were praying for the protection of all who were inside the Church.
We have so many statues of saints. I realize this is probably sacrilege, but wouldn’t it be interesting if Catholics could see “Satan” hiding outside the church doors waiting to snatch away what they have obtained in mass? Maybe then we’d wake up and be alert.
We often pray the Prayer to St. Michael after masses during the week. I wish we would pray it after every mass, but I guess people just start ignoring after a while. Too bad.
During the Easter vigil when I was confirmed into the Catholic Church, I had a “vision.” I could see (just for a millisecond) thousands of demons outside our church. They were pounding on the roof and at the windows, but they couldn’t get in because thousands of saints and angels were praying for the protection of all who were inside the Church.
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xmydreamsfadex
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during mass i always see in my mind angels in the air and in front of me, i sit usually in the first row, worshipping with us. off subject i know.
also, i believe there was a saint around during the time of naploean who said that the suns light would be blocked if all the demons roaming the world were visable to us. scary thought.
also, i believe there was a saint around during the time of naploean who said that the suns light would be blocked if all the demons roaming the world were visable to us. scary thought.
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6YRSHOME
Guest
Wow! That was probably a shocking moment. Unfortuantely it’s not far from reality.
I think that evangalization is not as big a part of the Catholic Church as it is with other churches. The Mormons and JW’s have their door to door’s. The Babtists have their tent revivals. The SDA’s have their revelation seminars. There are alot of resources and training geared toward evangalization. I don’t really see this with the Catholic Church, although recently some young Catholics did a street ministry in our downtown area promoted by our Archbishop.
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Techno2000
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Because there are people like Jack Chick spreading lies about
the Catholic Church.
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Sagefrakrobatik
Guest
There are a few reasons
- theology-some people might be misinterpret catholic dogma; intercession of the saints, praying to mary, papal authority. Once they start to learn about them they might feel as if they are religiously ethical and choose to switch.
- Modernization vs tradition-the formality of a catholic church service is vastly different than alot of protestant denominations. particuarly within the Holiness movement and Pentecostalism where believers can be as spontaneous as they want with out a stern look coming from the alter. Alot of churches incorporate live rock groups as part of their hymnals.
- Papal intertation-The fact that historically, The interpretation of scripture was left to papal authority.
- Socialization-This too is a problem for protestants as well. When the congregation lets out the priest, well at least at my congregation, would shake everyones hand. This is good for encourage congregants to socialize but that is it. And at times it feels superficial. Besides we all know the johns in the pew who say the hail marys in church but are only really thinking about the hail maries they will see on Fox during the Raiders game.
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puzzleannie
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I don’t know that this is true, in all times and places. Since I am involved in RCIA I work of course with people who are converting to Catholicism, including Pentecostals and Mormons, JWs, and several Protestant denominations, also those who are unchurched. Rather than stating an opinion as a premise to begin a debate or discussion, why not either begin with some factual statistics, or pose the question differently, for instance: how can the Catholic Church evangelize Pentecostals and Mormons? The Catholic Church is full of lay people like myself, as well as the priests and religious, whose life and careers are devoted to evangelization, and it was the call of our late Pope to make this a priority, so I can’t say that OPs statement is truthful or fair.
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Theinvisibleman
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Im thinking i shouldnt have put this in non-catholic religions, lol
its late now, ill give my view tomorrow
its late now, ill give my view tomorrow
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puzzleannie
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in could probably be discussed in Evangelization as well. If you want it in NC Religions perhaps we should be asking ourselves, why are pentecostals and mormons successful in their evangelization efforts? We should also ask, how successful are they in retaining converts?
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stephanut
Guest
i’m pentecostal myself, and would like to say that my main gripe is the focus on law by the catholic church. it seems like a common thing on this forum to ask if this and that is permitted (getting a marriage recognized by the church or the number of times one can receive the Eucharist etc). correct me if i’m wrong, but aren’t we dead to the law?
i’m not saying that we should do just about anything we want. marriage is not to be trifled with and i’m glad to be in a church which celebrates the holy communion every week without fail. but God made us all fearfully and wonderfully, and i like to be spontaneous in worshipping Him. and being christians, we didn’t come from one law and enter into a new one. we are in the new covenant which Jesus died to give us, yet i don’t really see my catholic family and friends rejoicing over that.
another thing would be the issue of abortion. i’m not really sure what the current stand of the catholic church is, but several years ago i read an article of how a 12 year old girl was raped by her uncle and got pregnant, and bishop or archbishop of her country (i live in southeast asia) refused to let her get an abortion because the catholic church is “pro-life”. the girl died in the end as the doctors had warned, because she was too young to deliver, as must have countless other unnamed innocent girls. what i perceived then, as i do now, is the unwavering focus on the law which doesn’t seem to be tampered with mercy. it was God’s mercy which saved us from eternal damnation, yet the bishop was unable to “pay it forward” just a wee bit of that so that the girl would live? is that being “pro-life”?
having come from a catholic school myself, i had always believed that i would be baptized into the catholic church. this incident, as well as several others, made me change my mind. i’ve got no objection to praying the rosary, seeking the intercession of saints and mother mary but i decided that i didn’t want to be subjected to the jurisdiction of an institution which focused so much on the law which Jesus himself said he would fulfill.
i know this might sound somewhat…antagonistic, but just thought i would share my experiences since someone asked about it.
i’m not saying that we should do just about anything we want. marriage is not to be trifled with and i’m glad to be in a church which celebrates the holy communion every week without fail. but God made us all fearfully and wonderfully, and i like to be spontaneous in worshipping Him. and being christians, we didn’t come from one law and enter into a new one. we are in the new covenant which Jesus died to give us, yet i don’t really see my catholic family and friends rejoicing over that.
another thing would be the issue of abortion. i’m not really sure what the current stand of the catholic church is, but several years ago i read an article of how a 12 year old girl was raped by her uncle and got pregnant, and bishop or archbishop of her country (i live in southeast asia) refused to let her get an abortion because the catholic church is “pro-life”. the girl died in the end as the doctors had warned, because she was too young to deliver, as must have countless other unnamed innocent girls. what i perceived then, as i do now, is the unwavering focus on the law which doesn’t seem to be tampered with mercy. it was God’s mercy which saved us from eternal damnation, yet the bishop was unable to “pay it forward” just a wee bit of that so that the girl would live? is that being “pro-life”?
having come from a catholic school myself, i had always believed that i would be baptized into the catholic church. this incident, as well as several others, made me change my mind. i’ve got no objection to praying the rosary, seeking the intercession of saints and mother mary but i decided that i didn’t want to be subjected to the jurisdiction of an institution which focused so much on the law which Jesus himself said he would fulfill.
i know this might sound somewhat…antagonistic, but just thought i would share my experiences since someone asked about it.
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Tonks40
Guest
Can’t quite understand what you’re saying - are you saying that Catholics appear to be evangelizing by stating laws of the Church?
Personally, I feel that Catholics do evangelize by being LIVING examples of Christ. They love God and that love is reflected in their works (prayer, charity, obedience). It’s a more subtle type of evangelization, in which actions speak louder than words.
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carol_marie
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You don’t sound antagonistic - you are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else.
I would like to say though that I support the Bishop who refused to let the girl get an abortion. He did not know she would die in childbirth (sadly many young girls DO deliver babies) and it would’ve been so very wrong for him to sanction the murder of her baby just in case it were to cause her injury. While I’m sad that the girl died, her eternal soul is much more important & far better is it to die faithful than to extend your life and risk the fires of hell.
The current stand of Catholic Church is still very much pro-life. That will never change. And I don’t know about your family & friends, but I assure you that I rejoice every single day over Jesus. Yes, he did fufill the law - but wouldn’t you agree that he still wants our obedience - for our own good? Which rules do you think are too much? The marriage ones? The no fornication ones? The no stealing one? The no murder one? If you say that some are too much, who’s to say that the rest aren’t too much too? Where do you the draw line? And isn’t that it - YOU deciding where the line is to be drawn? Do you think God really wants us all to decide for ourselves?
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stephanut
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that i have to agree with you, my friend.
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stephanut
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the bishop -did- know she would die – all the doctors told him so. i find it hard to accept this, because it seems that the rapist’s acts are being condoned indirectly.You don’t sound antagonistic - you are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else.
I would like to say though that I support the Bishop who refused to let the girl get an abortion. He did not know she would die in childbirth (sadly many young girls DO deliver babies) and it would’ve been so very wrong for him to sanction the murder of her baby just in case it were to cause her injury. While I’m sad that the girl died, her eternal soul is much more important & far better is it to die faithful than to extend your life and risk the fires of hell.
The current stand of Catholic Church is still very much pro-life. That will never change. And I don’t know about your family & friends, but I assure you that I rejoice every single day over Jesus. Yes, he did fufill the law - but wouldn’t you agree that he still wants our obedience - for our own good? Which rules do you think are too much? The marriage ones? The no fornication ones? The no stealing one? The no murder one? If you say that some are too much, who’s to say that the rest aren’t too much too? Where do you the draw line? And isn’t that it - YOU deciding where the line is to be drawn? Do you think God really wants us all to decide for ourselves?
and i’m not saying to choose which law to follow, because i don’t think that any of them are “too much” to follow. i just feel that the -focus- shouldn’t be the law. the way it’s being laid out and picked apart by men is something that belongs to this world. but we are not of this world, as Jesus said in the gospel of John. with the Holy Spirit in us, sin shall not have dominion over us, and thus we are dead to the law.
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Cat
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stephanut, I’m surprised that as a Pentecostal, you are supportive of any abortion. My husband was raised Assemblies of God, and our relatives still attend this church. From what I have seen, the A of G churches, along with other Pentecostal churches, are totally pro-life. Although the rape issue is always a hard one, most Pentecostal churches would agree that a baby shouldn’t die because a parent sinned. In fact, Pentecostal churches are among the most pro-life of the Protestant denominations. They are very faith-filled churches, and teach that we need to trust God in all circumstances.
stephanut, why should the BABY be killed because of his/her parent’s sin? If your parent committed a crime, how would you feel if YOU had to be killed to pay the penalty for that crime?
Rape is an act of violence. So is abortion. Doing an act of violence will not make the other other act of violence go away. It just adds violence to violence.
Giving birth and bringing an innocent new life into the world is a healing act that can bring good out of evil. The mother may not choose to keep the baby of a rape, but rather, give it up for adoption. Either way, good has come from evil.
I work in a hospital. We see it every week–10, 11, 12 year olds giving birth.
If the bishop KNEW that the young woman would die, he would followed the CHURCH teaching, which says that a doctor may follow a course of treatment that will allow the MOTHER to survive. That doesn’t mean “abortion,” it means doing whatever is necessary to help the mother survive, which might mean delivering the baby early (this isn’t an abortion). If the baby does not survive, that’s sad, of course. But the mother survives, and no sin has been committed. **The Catholic Church DOES teach survival of the mother. **
What I’m saying is that I have a hard time believing that the story is “complete.” Something doesn’t ring true here. I think something has been left out. Do you have a link to this story? A lot of untrue stories have been circulated by pro-choice people and by anti-Catholic people. I think this might be one of them.
stephanut, why should the BABY be killed because of his/her parent’s sin? If your parent committed a crime, how would you feel if YOU had to be killed to pay the penalty for that crime?
Rape is an act of violence. So is abortion. Doing an act of violence will not make the other other act of violence go away. It just adds violence to violence.
Giving birth and bringing an innocent new life into the world is a healing act that can bring good out of evil. The mother may not choose to keep the baby of a rape, but rather, give it up for adoption. Either way, good has come from evil.
I work in a hospital. We see it every week–10, 11, 12 year olds giving birth.
If the bishop KNEW that the young woman would die, he would followed the CHURCH teaching, which says that a doctor may follow a course of treatment that will allow the MOTHER to survive. That doesn’t mean “abortion,” it means doing whatever is necessary to help the mother survive, which might mean delivering the baby early (this isn’t an abortion). If the baby does not survive, that’s sad, of course. But the mother survives, and no sin has been committed. **The Catholic Church DOES teach survival of the mother. **
What I’m saying is that I have a hard time believing that the story is “complete.” Something doesn’t ring true here. I think something has been left out. Do you have a link to this story? A lot of untrue stories have been circulated by pro-choice people and by anti-Catholic people. I think this might be one of them.
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Theinvisibleman
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I say this becuae the pentecostals in my town bring in converts, and have an euthusiatic and devout following, while the local catholic church is quite the opposite. To be honest I’m willing to dought that there are any faithful youth in this town, well at least around my age.
I started to think 'why is this so", so I poked around and realized some things:
3.The form youth groups to discuss religion, current events, etc. Also, the cirriculum is different. While the catholic church focuses on theology and tradition, the pentecostals had a more evangelical stance, which seemed to appeal more to the younger people.
6.The poor. The pentecostals hit it big with poor people. Many poor prefer the joy of mass and community rather than accepting their position with dignity. Maybe the pentecostal servive makes them stop thinking of their condition in life.
I started to think 'why is this so", so I poked around and realized some things:
- Pentecostals make church accessible. They incorperate pop music, games, trips, and other stuff without compromising beliefs.
3.The form youth groups to discuss religion, current events, etc. Also, the cirriculum is different. While the catholic church focuses on theology and tradition, the pentecostals had a more evangelical stance, which seemed to appeal more to the younger people.
- They throw fun nights for anyone and during this they give brief speeches and bring up the youth group.This incorperates parts of number one, but this involves getting converts.
6.The poor. The pentecostals hit it big with poor people. Many poor prefer the joy of mass and community rather than accepting their position with dignity. Maybe the pentecostal servive makes them stop thinking of their condition in life.
- Child molestation. The sex abuse scandal had left a sour taste in the mouth of many people in today’s society and as a result they would probably fo the opposite way of catholicism.
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carol_marie
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WOW! You’re friend is BRILLIANT! Seriously, to think billions of Catholics throughout history have been worshiping IDOLS without even knowing it!!! Good job he pointed that out for us.
Actually the Catholic Church hasn’t changed all that much since the time of Christ. It’s all the other Christian Churches that have dropped things left & right as they broke off from whatever church who broke off from whatever church who broke off… (well, you get the picture)
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Theinvisibleman
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Yeah, but many people share his opinion, and as a result many who think of religion stay away from the catholic church
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carol_marie
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Yes, sadly you are right. Many people are ignorant to the truth.
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