Inappropriate T-Shirt in Mass

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Newbie2 said:
Embrace atheism?
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Newbie2 said:
Hardly.

Methinks the message on the shirt refuses to distinguish the difference between the sin and the sinner.
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Where did you get the idea that the shirt said Embrace atheism?
Per the OP, it essentially said Embrace the Atheist (as well as others).

I see this shirt on the right side of the love the sinner hate the sin issue.

Could someone please explain to me how the shirt as described in the OP shows anything like loving the sins and not just the sinners, or how it is “offensive”?

Also, are we not called to love even **“Rapists, Muderers, Adulterers, Pedphiles, Pet Molestors, Necrophyliacs”****? **Not their sins of course, but them as sinners.
Having said (or asked) that, I prefer not to see worded clothing at mass–but I am now an old fuddy-duddy, so that isn’t surprising.
 
completely not appropriate for mass, the priest should correct him on the matter. I would have gotten up and moved to another seat.
 
Enoch said:
Well, I was being facetious. But since you decided to be so serious about it.

We need to conform to Christ, not make Christ conform to us. Excommunication is an act of mercy not condemnation. Christ calls us to be as one.

Last night our priest told my parish, “If you don’t believe with all your heart that the Holy Eucharist is truly the body, blood, soul, and divinity if Jesus Christ, don’t approach the altar, otherwise you will be bringing condemnation upon yourself”
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I would agree certainly that as Catholics we are called to conform to Christ and Church teachings… but I would never consider it my place to decide who should be excommunicated, nor advocate such an action over something as simple as wearing a particular tshirt to Mass. I don’t think the fact that someone has been seen wearing osmething like that to church indicates clearly enough their intent in doing so to warrant such an serious action.

As a general parishioner myself, my choice is to do my best to ignore such distractions and set myself to concentrating on the worship I am there to give to our Lord. It is not up to me to determine the parish dress code or to make another person feel unwelcome. All I can do is set a better example and to persist in instructing my kids to dress appropriately.

Perhaps if one were an usher, one might find it part of his duties to discourage such inappropriate dress. There are proper channels for these sorts of things, but all must be conducted charitably and under the pastor’s and bishop’s guidance. I have seen signs on the outside doors of several churches over the years stating this is a holy place–no shorts, please, etc. They were all over the place in the Holy Land. Perhaps some of our pastors need to be a little less shy about insisting on such things. But I don’t think it is up to individual parishioners to try to enforce their own rules of decency, even if someone else is clearly over the line. If anything, you should mention it privately to your priest and suggest he might consider finding a way to address such matters for the sake of the parish.
 
interesting thread. a lot of judgement going on here in my opinion. what if this man hadn’t been to church in many years, and was just passing by and decided to go in? what would have happened if you said something in anger? just what if? there are many scenarios. maybe next week you’ll see him in a suit. though offensive, i think you did the right thing by not saying anything this time. if it was a habit of a parishoner to dress that way i’d pray to the holy spirit and gently say something to him. by the way, i used to wear jeans to church. my best ones. i couldn’t afford anything better.
 
Enoch said:
Next time you go to Mass stand in front of him wearing a shirt that says, "Attention all Catholics: The cafeteria is closed!"*
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Short, glib, smug answer.* In other words, “I am in my fort, s---- you.” The truth is we all have different appetites and different ways of looking at things.* I do not agree with everything the Catholic church says, yet I am obedient.* So you are perfect?* I don’t think so.* That’s not what Jesus taught.* The greatest catch-all phrase in Catholic aplogetics is “What is loosed and what is bound, etc.”* In other words, its Our way or the Highway.That is not what Jesus was about either.* That t-shirt would probably offend me too, but at least the person was attending Mass.* Perhaps he was on his way back to the faith but felt wearing the shirt was a hold-out. Who knows. I agree with the poster who suggested inviting him to lunch and then engage in a conversation. Is the only way to care about someone’s soul to give in to an irresistable urge to “save them” by telling them they are wrong? Sounds like “self-will run riot” to me. Is this not why Jesus spoke in parables?
 
Schultzz said:
Short, glib, smug answer.* In other words, “I am in my fort, s---- you.” The truth is we all have different appetites and different ways of looking at things.* I do not agree with everything the Catholic church says, yet I am obedient.* So you are perfect?* I don’t think so.* That’s not what Jesus taught.* The greatest catch-all phrase in Catholic aplogetics is “What is loosed and what is bound, etc.”* In other words, its Our way or the Highway.That is not what Jesus was about either.* That t-shirt would probably offend me too, but at least the person was attending Mass.* Perhaps he was on his way back to the faith but felt wearing the shirt was a hold-out. Who knows. I agree with the poster who suggested inviting him to lunch and then engage in a conversation. Is the only way to care about someone’s soul to give in to an irresistable urge to “save them” by telling them they are wrong? Sounds like “self-will run riot” to me. Is this not why Jesus spoke in parables?
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Huh? :confused: This post makes no sense to me; I do not understand the point or what itndeed the you are saying. Can you clarify the entire post please.

Some paragraph breaks would make it easier to read.

I do get the hint that some very non-Catholic sentiments were expressed here, but the post is so confusing, I am not certain.
 
As for the T-Shirt itself, I find all T-shirts to be inappropriate at Mass. They are distracting to others people, no matter what they say or even if they are a photo or design. Even a T-Shirt that said “I Believe in the Real Presence” would be inappropriate because it distracts people.

When a person goes to Mass, they should at least try to dress like they are about to meet the Creator of the Universe. After all, that is exactly what is happening.
 
Schultzz said:
Short, glib, smug answer.* In other words, “I am in my fort, s---- you.” The truth is we all have different appetites and different ways of looking at things.* I do not agree with everything the Catholic church says, yet I am obedient.* So you are perfect?* I don’t think so.* That’s not what Jesus taught.* The greatest catch-all phrase in Catholic aplogetics is “What is loosed and what is bound, etc.”* In other words, its Our way or the Highway.That is not what Jesus was about either.* That t-shirt would probably offend me too, but at least the person was attending Mass.* Perhaps he was on his way back to the faith but felt wearing the shirt was a hold-out. Who knows. I agree with the poster who suggested inviting him to lunch and then engage in a conversation. Is the only way to care about someone’s soul to give in to an irresistable urge to “save them” by telling them they are wrong? Sounds like “self-will run riot” to me. Is this not why Jesus spoke in parables?
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I am in no way perfect, however that is my goal in life. We are all called to the same level of holiness. Read my previous posts where I explain how Jesus loves everyone and does not reject anyone. However He does reject ALL sin, whether it’s actions, thoughts, or attitudes.

Show me the parable where Jesus said it was okay to sin?
 
Enoch said:
I am in no way perfect, however that is my goal in life. We are all called to the same level of holiness. Read my previous posts where I explain how Jesus loves everyone and does not reject anyone. However He does reject ALL sin, whether it’s actions, thoughts, or attitudes.

Show me the parable where Jesus said it was okay to sin?
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Young people are often idealists. They go through a rebellious stage. Often to them it is either all black or all white. When they see what life is really about, they become less absolute in their thinking. I did read some of your posts and I find agreement with most of them. However, do you have the ability to read men’s hearts? I think not. I do not condone sin either. Wasn’t it Pascal who said, “God created us all in His image, so we decided to return the favor”? “Judge not lest you be judged”. Did you know that the word “perfect” translated from all the languages that were there before ours does not mean to be flawless - For only Jesus was flawless. It really means to be made whole. Is that not what we strive for, wholeness?
 
rpp said:
Huh? :confused: This post makes no sense to me; I do not understand the point or what itndeed the you are saying. Can you clarify the entire post please.

Some paragraph breaks would make it easier to read.

I do get the hint that some very non-Catholic sentiments were expressed here, but the post is so confusing, I am not certain.
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Thank you for your response. I am sorry that you do not understand my post. Perhaps it has a tendency to run together. Perhaps I do have some non-Catholic sentiments. The Catholic Church is not a democracy but is not this forum a place which accepts different opinions? It is healthy to question that which we do not understand. How else would the Prodigal son know when it was time to return to his Father?
 
Catherine_W said:
Today during Mass (the mass of the Lords Supper), the man sitting next to me had a t-shirt that said something like:

“Atheist, Catholic, Fat, Tall, Homosexual, Immigrant, Bisexual, Transgender, Hispanic, Black” …. And lots of other things…
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My six year old reads pretty well for her age. I’m cringing at the thought of having to explain to her what some of those words mean. I expect these things on the street, but at Mass?

If I sat near this guy, I’d feel obligated to gather up the courage to ask him, for the benefit of other parishoners, to please reconsider the messages he displays at Mass. It would be really uncomfortable though.
 
rpp said:
As for the T-Shirt itself, I find all T-shirts to be inappropriate at Mass. They are distracting to others people, no matter what they say or even if they are a photo or design. Even a T-Shirt that said “I Believe in the Real Presence” would be inappropriate because it distracts people.

When a person goes to Mass, they should at least try to dress like they are about to meet the Creator of the Universe. After all, that is exactly what is happening.
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…my friend all i own is the basic t-shirt and blue jeans,and my 21yr old leather jacket.at least they are clean not like my work clothes which are the same t-shirt and blue jean combo.and i would find such t-shirts inappropriate(message types) for mass. i wear plain tees to mass.
 
Catherine_W said:
Do you think this is an appropriate shirt for Mass?
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Absolutely not. I notice that some people dress better at a cheap restaurant or on the golf course, than at Catholic Mass. It is not your fault. In my personal opinion, I would place the blame for this squarely on the Catholic authorities, priests and bishops, who do not enforce or require a dress code for Mass. I have seen signs posted at other Churches giving the code for dress in Church, and this is what is sorely needed in Catholic Churches today, at least the ones that I have attended. Of course, when you have a rock band at the altar, with the musicians in some kind of hippie dress, with cutoff sleeveless t-shirts where you see the hair of their underarms as they bellow and wail the rock music during the Mass, then where is the motivation for people to dress respectfully as they do in other Churches, such as the Baptist Church in our area.
 
Schultzz said:
Young people are often idealists. They go through a rebellious stage. Often to them it is either all black or all white. When they see what life is really about, they become less absolute in their thinking. I did read some of your posts and I find agreement with most of them. However, do you have the ability to read men’s hearts? I think not. I do not condone sin either. Wasn’t it Pascal who said, “God created us all in His image, so we decided to return the favor”? “Judge not lest you be judged”. Did you know that the word “perfect” translated from all the languages that were there before ours does not mean to be flawless - For only Jesus was flawless. It really means to be made whole. Is that not what we strive for, wholeness?
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I cannot read a man’s heart unless, of course, he is wearing it on his sleeve for the world to see.😉

Pascal is not a Saint or a Dr. of the Church, however, St. Theresa of Avila is. I suggest you read “The Way of Perfection” and you may understand what I’m talking about.

The OP said the t-shirt read “embrace IT”. What is the “IT” we are supposed to be embracing? People are not “its” but sins are.
 
I’ve also seen welcoming signs at other churches saying “Come as you are”. And since when do we model ourselves after Baptists? We are a Universal Church meaning we don’t exclude ourselves to people with good taste in dress. So, while I disagree with the slogan on that man’s shirt, I defend his right to wear it to Mass.

I’ve noticed since joining here that some people scrutinize their fellow worshippers quite closely. My suggestion is to close your eyes and pray
 
I live on the beach. We can almost stand at the door of our Church and hit the water. In the summer, probably 90% of our attendees are tourists here for one thing; the beach. Given that fact, the dress is usually shorts, tshirts and flip flops. A few of the older residents wear long pants, but when it’s 90*+ with 90% humidity, people aren’t lining up to wear slacks and a long sleeve shirt.

The point is, I’m not sure that God cares so much about the dress, as he does about the worship. I can wear a $5000 Armani suit and be an unrepentant sinner that’s “going” to Church, or I can dress poorly and be a holy and righteous Christian. We go to Church to worship, not for a fashion show. After all, didn’t Jesus wear sandals and a robe? Does “when in Rome…” ring any bells?

With that being said, it’s one thing to have a T-shirt with a harmless logo and another with inciting and disrespectful words.

I think part of the trouble we, as Cathoics, don’t correct is that we mistake antagonism as a cry for help.
 
TemplarKnight said:
The point is, I’m not sure that God cares so much about the dress, as he does about the worship. I can wear a $5000 Armani suit and be an unrepentant sinner that’s “going” to Church, or I can dress poorly and be a holy and righteous Christian. We go to Church to worship, not for a fashion show. After all, didn’t Jesus wear sandals and a robe? Does “when in Rome…” ring any bells?
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As a side note, I found this quote by C.S. Lewis:

“God is not deceived by externals”

Thought it was appropriate.
 
Newbie2 said:
Embrace atheism?

Hardly.

Methinks the message on the shirt refuses to distinguish the difference between the sin and the sinner.
Click to expand...
CuriousInIL said:
Where did you get the idea that the shirt said Embrace atheism?
Per the OP, it essentially said Embrace the Atheist (as well as others).

I see this shirt on the right side of the love the sinner hate the sin issue.

Could someone please explain to me how the shirt as described in the OP shows anything like loving the sins and not just the sinners, or how it is “offensive”?

Also, are we not called to love even **“Rapists, Muderers, Adulterers, Pedphiles, Pet Molestors, Necrophyliacs”****? **Not their sins of course, but them as sinners.

Having said (or asked) that, I prefer not to see worded clothing at mass–but I am now an old fuddy-duddy, so that isn’t surprising.
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Anyone?
 
It is possible to love and criticize at the same time. Love means we wish the best for that person, that they become true to the word of God and the teachings of the Church.

Love does not mean withholding any criticism or not speaking out about acts that we find undesirable.
 
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