Incest ok in same-sex relationship?

[mark_a]

I believe that the Church’s teachings on sexuality are correct , but hypothetically…

Suppose someone believes that sex between people of the same gender is moral, especially if they’re in a committed, long-term relationship. Does it matter whether or not the people involved are blood relatives?

It is my understanding that the main reason incest is immoral is because the children resulting from such a union might have genetic defects. But if no biological children will ever result from a same-sex union, doesn’t it make incest ok?

Any thoughts?

Perhaps that’s the next “barrier” to be broken down by the gay marriage crowd. Or the pet marriage crowd. Or the pet parent crowd.

 

[mark_a]

I am an atheist raised by Catholics. So, the Holy Spirit is not infallible apperently.

If the holy Spirit told you being an atheist is ok, I’d double check who it was that actually said it.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

belorg

**I am an atheist raised by Catholics. So, the Holy Spirit is not infallible apperently. **

The Holy Spirit is infallible, but apparently you are not. Check your spelling of “apperently.”

 

[LisaA]

I am an atheist raised by Catholics. So, the Holy Spirit is not infallible apperently.

I believe that the Holy Spirit speaks to everyone. Not everyone listens though. It took me 40+ years. God bless you on your journey
Lisa

 

[belorg]

If the holy Spirit told you being an atheist is ok, I’d double check who it was that actually said it.

The Holy Spirit hasn’t told me anything at all so far.

The Holy Spirit is infallible, but apparently you are not. Check your spelling of “apperently.”

I have never claimed that I was infallible, so I am allowed to make some spelling mistakes…

I believe that the Holy Spirit speaks to everyone. Not everyone listens though. It took me 40+ years. God bless you on your journey
Lisa

If the Holy Spirit is as amazing as you believe He is, it should be nearly impossible not to hear Him, especially when you were raised by a Catholic mother and father, as I was. But this is off-topic.

 

[snarflemike]

Morality of tomorrow will be “what’s a sin?”

I doubt it will even take the form of a question. It will be “keep your #%*&@ laws off of my body and out of my bedroom, you racist sexist homophobe bigots!”. It will be in the spirit of anger and defiance and self-righteousness and outright hatred, not in the spirit of actual inquiry.

Oh, wait, we’re already there.

 

[mark_a]

The Holy Spirit hasn’t told me anything at all so far.

I must have completely misunderstood what you were saying. Sorry.

 

[LisaA]

The Holy Spirit hasn’t told me anything at all so far.

If the Holy Spirit is as amazing as you believe He is, it should be nearly impossible not to hear Him, especially when you were raised by a Catholic mother and father, as I was. But this is off-topic.

Listening is active, not passive, as any parent of a teen can confirm! It is not impossible to ignore the Holy Spirit, obviously millions do or we would not have such a troubled world would we? Maybe you are just not listening?

But more to the topic, if you are an atheist what forms your conscious? Where is your ethical base? Are you the god you worship? Do you listen only to your inner voice or is there something outside that tells you that certain acts are inherently good or inherently bad?

Lisa

 

[FrancisBenedict]

No it is not ok.

Pray God protect and heal anyone in this situation.

God bless+

 

[belorg]

Listening is active, not passive, as any parent of a teen can confirm! It is not impossible to ignore the Holy Spirit, obviously millions do or we would not have such a troubled world would we? Maybe you are just not listening?

I do not knwo about those millions, but I have never ignored the Holy Spirit. I have tried to listen to everything.

But more to the topic, if you are an atheist what forms your conscious? Where is your ethical base? Are you the god you worship? Do you listen only to your inner voice or is there something outside that tells you that certain acts are inherently good or inherently bad?

Lisa

My conscinece was formed by evolutionary processes and my ethical basis is what is good for mankind.
I do not worship anybody or anything, including myself.
I listen to my inner voice as well as the voices of lots of other people and that’s the way I decide whether an act is good or bad.

 

[LisaA]

I do not knwo about those millions, but I have never ignored the Holy Spirit. I have tried to listen to everything.

My conscinece was formed by evolutionary processes and my ethical basis is what is good for mankind.
I do not worship anybody or anything, including myself.
I listen to my inner voice as well as the voices of lots of other people and that’s the way I decide whether an act is good or bad.

My point regarding ignoring the Holy Spirit is that were everyone to listen, we would not have a troubled world with violence and wars for example. So I suspect you would agree that millions are listening to a “voice” that inspires negative action. n Further if the voice inside your head is inspiring you to positive action, love for your fellow man, kindness and compassion, maybe it IS the Holy Spirit!

As to your ethical base, it is smply your opinion about what is “good for mankind.” There are millions of Islamists who think ridding the world of non Muslims would be “good for mankind.” To get back to the thread topic, there is a group that thinks adult men should be able to have sex with young boys… even relatives. They think this is “good for mankind.” It’s called moral relativism.

Can’t argue of course, you are the world’s greatest expert on your own opinion!

Lisa

 

[belorg]

My point regarding ignoring the Holy Spirit is that were everyone to listen, we would not have a troubled world with violence and wars for example. So I suspect you would agree that millions are listening to a “voice” that inspires negative action. n Further if the voice inside your head is inspiring you to positive action, love for your fellow man, kindness and compassion, maybe it IS the Holy Spirit!

As to your ethical base, it is smply your opinion about what is “good for mankind.” There are millions of Islamists who think ridding the world of non Muslims would be “good for mankind.” To get back to the thread topic, there is a group that thinks adult men should be able to have sex with young boys… even relatives. They think this is “good for mankind.” It’s called moral relativism.

Can’t argue of course, you are the world’s greatest expert on your own opinion!

Lisa

There are groups of people who think ridding the world of non-Catholics is good for mankind. The point is that the only possible way to know which group is right about this is by using reason. So, my ethical basis is not “simply my opinion” at all.

Also the voice in my head is inspiring me to positive action etc but it is definitely not inspiring me to worship any kind of supreme personal being, so if it is the Holy Spirit, it is not the Catholic variety.

 

[LisaA]

There are groups of people who think ridding the world of non-Catholics is good for mankind. The point is that the only possible way to know which group is right about this is by using reason. So, my ethical basis is not “simply my opinion” at all.

Also the voice in my head is inspiring me to positive action etc but it is definitely not inspiring me to worship any kind of supreme personal being, so if it is the Holy Spirit, it is not the Catholic variety.

But if you have no foundation or basis your ethics ARE your opinion only.Reason based on what? Empircal research? Done by whom? Experience? How it impacts you and you alone? What you learned at your mother’s knee?

BTW really there are people who want to rid the world of non-Catholics?

Lisa

 

[belorg]

But if you have no foundation or basis your ethics ARE your opinion only.Reason based on what? Empircal research? Done by whom? Experience? How it impacts you and you alone? What you learned at your mother’s knee?

All those things combined and a lot more.
Without reason how do you propose we decide which of the thousands of diffrent voices people claim to hear is the right one? How do you decide that the Islamists are wrong? Because you happen to hear a different voice?

BTW really there are people who want to rid the world of non-Catholics?

Lisa

I keep hoping I am wrong on this, but my experience with some (fortunately not the majority) of Catholics tells me a different story.

 

[LisaA]

All those things combined and a lot more.
Without reason how do you propose we decide which of the thousands of diffrent voices people claim to hear is the right one? How do you decide that the Islamists are wrong? Because you happen to hear a different voice?

.

No, because I see what happens. Do you believe, objectively that Islamist terrorism has been beneficial either to the Muslims or to the world? It doesn’t take a PhD in philosophy to predict that mindless violence against innocents is detrimental both to those impacted and to society in general. Ergo the Islamist philosophy is wrong.

Reason would not tend to support Christian teaching and belief. Reason would auger toward a selfish attitude…how will I benefit from a belief or an action? Reason would tell you that if you want your neighbor’s wife (she’s hot!) or his car (a Ferrari!) and you are able to get them, well go for it! Christianity is rooted in self sacrifice and self giving love. Not much logic in that is there? But these self sacrificial acts have created much of the good in society.

Reason would say do nothing unless it benefits you in some way. Christian ethics does not ask that question.

I keep hoping I am wrong on this, but my experience with some (fortunately not the majority) of Catholics tells me a different story.

Really? I guess you can find people of all faiths that want to conquer by the sword so to speak. However I do not know any established Catholic teaching that would suggest anything but sharing faith and changing hearts not cutting them out.
Lisa

 

[belorg]

No, because I see what happens. Do you believe, objectively that Islamist terrorism has been beneficial either to the Muslims or to the world? It doesn’t take a PhD in philosophy to predict that mindless violence against innocents is detrimental both to those impacted and to society in general. Ergo the Islamist philosophy is wrong.

You might not be aware of it, but you have just made my point.

Reason would not tend to support Christian teaching and belief. Reason would auger toward a selfish attitude…how will I benefit from a belief or an action? Reason would tell you that if you want your neighbor’s wife (she’s hot!) or his car (a Ferrari!) and you are able to get them, well go for it! Christianity is rooted in self sacrifice and self giving love. Not much logic in that is there? But these self sacrificial acts have created much of the good in society.

No, actually Christianity is rooted in utter selfishness. The reason why Christians give there love is because they want eternal reward.
And, reason would not tell me those things at all, as you have illustrated above.

Reason would say do nothing unless it benefits you in some way. Christian ethics does not ask that question.

Imagine that God (or the Holy Spirit) told you that there is no such thing as eternal reward or punishment, why then would you choose to act for the good? I can answer that question, but I doubt whether you can.

Really? I guess you can find people of all faiths that want to conquer by the sword so to speak. However I do not know any established Catholic teaching that would suggest anything but sharing faith and changing hearts not cutting them out.
Lisa

Catholicism has been conquering by the sword for most of its existence. It’s only since the Age of Enlightenment that Catholics have discovered reason and luckily nowadays etstablished Catholic teaching is far more humane. But there are still Catholics who think differently.and reading what is posted on this forum by people who call themselves Catholics sometimes really scares me.

 

[LisaA]

You might not be aware of it, but you have just made my point.

No, actually Christianity is rooted in utter selfishness. The reason why Christians give there love is because they want eternal reward.
And, reason would not tell me those things at all, as you have illustrated above.

Imagine that God (or the Holy Spirit) told you that there is no such thing as eternal reward or punishment, why then would you choose to act for the good? I can answer that question, but I doubt whether you can.

Catholicism has been conquering by the sword for most of its existence. It’s only since the Age of Enlightenment that Catholics have discovered reason and luckily nowadays etstablished Catholic teaching is far more humane. But there are still Catholics who think differently.and reading what is posted on this forum by people who call themselves Catholics sometimes really scares me.

Wow, you said you were raised by Catholics but you were clearly poorly catechized. You have no understanding of Christianity. The theory of “working your way to heaven” is baloney, not supported by Christ’s words, the Bible, or the Catholic Church. Where did you hear that line of bull? What I do here and now is rooted in here and now, not because I hope to be in heaven after I die. I came from an atheist background and the concept of heaven is simply not even relevant to what I am doing here on this earth.

As to Catholicism "conquering by the sword for most if its existence, apparently you knowledge of history is on par with your knowledge of Christianity

Honestly, no wonder you are an atheist. You have no clue about Catholicism or Christianity and so are rejecting false teaching. I think one Biblical scholar put it best when he said he always asks atheists to tell him about the god they don’t believe in. The atheist then fulminates at great length about his version of god. The Biblical scholar replies “I don’t blame you for being an atheist, I don’t believe in that god either!”

Lisa

 

[belorg]

Wow, you said you were raised by Catholics but you were clearly poorly catechized. You have no understanding of Christianity. The theory of “working your way to heaven” is baloney, not supported by Christ’s words, the Bible, or the Catholic Church. Where did you hear that line of bull? What I do here and now is rooted in here and now, not because I hope to be in heaven after I die. I came from an atheist background and the concept of heaven is simply not even relevant to what I am doing here on this earth.

Then what you do here and now is rooted in rationalism.
So you do not need Catholicism to do whatvere you do in the here and now. Neither do I.
But you should not deny the fact that salvation is one of the major elements of Christianity .

As to Catholicism "conquering by the sword for most if its existence, apparently you knowledge of history is on par with your knowledge of Christianity

I do admire your romantic view on Christianity. I even wish it were true that there was never a reing of terror by the Catholic church and by dictators supported by the Catholic church.
You really belive that when the Roman emperor decided that Catholicism would be the state religion, the citizens were just free to reject it?
Never heard of the Spanish Inquisition? Never been to Ireland?

Honestly, no wonder you are an atheist. You have no clue about Catholicism or Christianity and so are rejecting false teaching.

Of courser I am rejecting false teachings. But it’s not a good idea to deny every unpleasant thing about your beliefs. What you actually belive in is your own ideal idea of what Christianity should be, not what it actually is.

think one Biblical scholar put it best when he said he always asks atheists to tell him about the god they don’t believe in. The atheist then fulminates at great length about his version of god. The Biblical scholar replies “I don’t blame you for being an atheist, I don’t believe in that god either!”

Lisa

I knwo that Biblical scholars ofeten move the goalposts Whenever they are faced with something about God they do not like they say, “Well, that’s not the God I belivee in”.

 

[SwimmerGirl42]

Same-sex relationships are ok, incest is never ok.

 

[LisaA]

Then what you do here and now is rooted in rationalism.
So you do not need Catholicism to do whatvere you do in the here and now. Neither do I.
But you should not deny the fact that salvation is one of the major elements of Christianity .

I do admire your romantic view on Christianity. I even wish it were true that there was never a reing of terror by the Catholic church and by dictators supported by the Catholic church.
You really belive that when the Roman emperor decided that Catholicism would be the state religion, the citizens were just free to reject it?
Never heard of the Spanish Inquisition? Never been to Ireland?

Of courser I am rejecting false teachings. But it’s not a good idea to deny every unpleasant thing about your beliefs. What you actually belive in is your own ideal idea of what Christianity should be, not what it actually is.

I knwo that Biblical scholars ofeten move the goalposts Whenever they are faced with something about God they do not like they say, “Well, that’s not the God I belivee in”.

Salvation is a major element of Christianity. But your assertion people are WORKING THEIR WAY to salvation is a complete misconception.

As to the usual suspects; THE INQUISITION!!! THE CRUSADES!!! THE HOLY ROMAN EMPEROR!!! Right…ancient history proves that there are just a bunch of theocrats waiting for their moment! They are probably at a Black Mass right now, plotting the overthrow of the world! Let’s pull out the latest Dan Brown novel for clues!

As to moving the goalposts, that’s apparently your experience. Please refer to the Catechism if you want to know what Catholics believe.

Now tell me about that god you don’t believe in?

Lisa