Incorrupt saints

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Pardon my ignorance. why would God who is Mercy and Love only keep Catholics incorruptible? It seems rather arrogant to assume God only does this to Catholics. I can’t imagine God acting like a scorekeeper. It seems rather superstitious to me.
Pardon granted. Why is it that some think there is more than one true faith and that God is not free to honor those He chooses or to have to explain Himself to men.

What is clear, is that there are as of yet no other faiths on the planet that God has similarly preserved.

James
 
What’s to defend? It’s not a doctrine of the Church and anyone who wants to lose sleep over it is welcome to.

There is a principle within the OT though. Remember the miracle of the dead man whose body was thrown into the prophet’s tomb because of raiders and when he touched the prophet’s bones he came back to life and stood up on his feet?

This has nothing to do with incorruptibility. 🤷
Church Militant;3659255:
It’s a miracle, believe it or don’t, but if you have a problem with the Catholic faith, I suggest that you stick to doctrinal matters. 🤷
It’s no miracle because the bodies are corrupting. Believe it or not.:o
 
may I know who can defend the incorruptibles claimed by the Catholic Church in here please 🙂
 
may I know who can defend the incorruptibles claimed by the Catholic Church in here please 🙂
You allege they are corrupting, yet that is not what the scientists and doctors that have examined them have found.

Are you a doctor or scientist and have you studied them?

Somehow I doubt it very much.
 
You allege they are corrupting, yet that is not what the scientists and doctors that have examined them have found.

Who are these scientists? Or are you in the habit of believing anything that’s told you?

same question to you Church militant, are you a doctor or a scientist that can prove that those bodies has no decay or corruption whatsoever?

Church Militant;3688895 said:
[Are you a doctor or scientist and have you studied them?
I don’t have to be either. I just don’t believe they are incorruptible. You are the one who believes and, thus, must provide the evidence you claim proves they are incorruptible. I don’t have that burden.
[Somehow I doubt it very much.

Somehow, I don’t think you are making very good arguments.
[/quote]
 
We don’t know why God allows the bodies of some saints to remain incorrupt and others not. Whether or not it is a sign of great sanctification is uncertain.

The body of St. Thomas Aquinas, as far as I know, is corrupt. Most of Padre Pio’s body has remained incorrupt. The two small children of Fatima (Jacinta Marto and her brother) are said to be incorrupt.

In my opinion, those whose bodies are incorrupt will be among the first to be raised either at the end of the world or at a special time in God’s plan.
 
We don’t know why God allows the bodies of some saints to remain incorrupt and others not. Whether or not it is a sign of great sanctification is uncertain.

The body of St. Thomas Aquinas, as far as I know, is corrupt. Most of Padre Pio’s body has remained incorrupt. The two small children of Fatima (Jacinta Marto and her brother) are said to be incorrupt.

In my opinion, those whose bodies are incorrupt will be among the first to be raised either at the end of the world or at a special time in God’s plan.
Only Jacinta’s face was found to be incorrupt. Her brother was not incorrupt.
 
As some have pointed out, non-Catholics have been found to have incorrupt bodies at times, too.

One thing I wanted to mention before (not to offend Catholics who believe in the incorruption theory), but the fingernails of Bernadette strongly resemble someone who has been embalmed.

(Please don’t be grossed out but…) for a long time I planned to become a mortician, and I studied a lot of information about mortuary science. If her fingernails are not the work of an embalmer/cosmetician, then someone put nail polish on her nails.
 
Only Jacinta’s face was found to be incorrupt. Her brother was not incorrupt.
Oopsies…you are correct. The cause for the siblings’ canonization began during 1946. Exhumed in 1935 and again in 1951, Jacinta’s body was found incorrupt. Francisco’s had decomposed. On May 13, 2000, they were declared “venerable” (two steps away from sainthood) in a decree from the Congregation for the Causes of Saints. Jacinta is the youngest non-martyred child ever to be beatified.
 
As some have pointed out, non-Catholics have been found to have incorrupt bodies at times, too.

One thing I wanted to mention before (not to offend Catholics who believe in the incorruption theory), but the fingernails of Bernadette strongly resemble someone who has been embalmed.

(Please don’t be grossed out but…) for a long time I planned to become a mortician, and I studied a lot of information about mortuary science. If her fingernails are not the work of an embalmer/cosmetician, then someone put nail polish on her nails.
I know that some Eastern Orthodox have also been found to be incorrupt. I don’t think it is impossible for someone who is not Catholic to be that way.

With your background can you tell me what generally happens to a body that has been embalmed after say 30 years buried in a damp area of the ground?

I havn’t checked into it deeply, but it is common for them to use things such as makeup to make incorrupt bodies look more presentable if they are placed somewhere that is visible to the public. I read that there was some wax used on the hands of St. Bernadette. Even when Pope John Paul II died they used makeup etc. as well as some preservation (not embalming, or anything similar) to make him more presentable, even though there had not been time for decay.
 
As some have pointed out, non-Catholics have been found to have incorrupt bodies at times, too.

One thing I wanted to mention before (not to offend Catholics who believe in the incorruption theory), but the fingernails of Bernadette strongly resemble someone who has been embalmed.

(Please don’t be grossed out but…) for a long time I planned to become a mortician, and I studied a lot of information about mortuary science. If her fingernails are not the work of an embalmer/cosmetician, then someone put nail polish on her nails.
It is my understanding that there is a thin waxed mask that was formed and placed over her exposed parts. Even so, this would not stop any sort of decomposition of the body if that were to occur.
 
I know that some Eastern Orthodox have also been found to be incorrupt. I don’t think it is impossible for someone who is not Catholic to be that way.

With your background can you tell me what generally happens to a body that has been embalmed after say 30 years buried in a damp area of the ground?

I havn’t checked into it deeply, but it is common for them to use things such as makeup to make incorrupt bodies look more presentable if they are placed somewhere that is visible to the public. I read that there was some wax used on the hands of St. Bernadette. Even when Pope John Paul II died they used makeup etc. as well as some preservation (not embalming, or anything similar) to make him more presentable, even though there had not been time for decay.
If a body is placed in an airtight container, under certain circumstances it will not decompose. Also, if a body is put into a deep freeze, it will also be preserved.

There are various circumstances that could, either deliberately or accidentally, be preserving the body, apart from any supernatural occurrences. People outside of the ‘death industry’ (hate using that term!) are usually not aware of this.

I’m skeptical of the alleged incorruption of these bodies, for reasons I’ve outlined, based on what I know of mortuary science.

The only alleged miracle that I have not yet seen any scientific explanation for is the appearance of the painting of OL of Guadalupe on the tilma of Juan Diego.
 
If a body is placed in an airtight container, under certain circumstances it will not decompose. Also, if a body is put into a deep freeze, it will also be preserved.
Certainly, this is so. However, most saints were not initially buried with the intention of preserving their bodies - many were buried according to the custom of the particular religious order to which they belonged, for example. According to accounts in Joan Carroll-Cruz’s book, several decades have usually elapsed before the body is exhumed (normally after the cause for sainthood has begun). I find the story of St Charbel Makhlouf to be one of the most interesting accounts in the book. When he died in 1898 he was buried “according to monastic custom, the body, which was not embalmed, was dressed in the full habit of the Order and was consigned to the grave without a coffin.” Four months after his death the body was exhumed following strange phenomena around the grave, and despite frequent rain in the preceding months “the body was found floating on mud in a flooded grave.” Following the exhumation the body was found to exude a liquid described as blood and perspiration (with the odour of blood). The body was placed in a new tomb, but was exhumed again in 1950 and found to be incorrupt, flexible and lifelike…

…It is usually only after finding the body incorrupt that steps (usually minimal, I think - such as controlling the temperature around the body) are taken. Although I don’t know much about preserving bodies, it seems to me that even waxing the outside of the body would not prevent decay (unless, of course, the body was frozen) since, surely decay can work from the inside out as well as starting on the skin?
 
It is my understanding that there is a thin waxed mask that was formed and placed over her exposed parts. Even so, this would not stop any sort of decomposition of the body if that were to occur.
She was waxed as to make her pleasing in appearance.

“The coffin was opened in the presence of the Bishop of Nevers, the mayor of the town, his principal deputy, several canons and ourselves. We noticed no smell. The body was clothed in the habit of Bernadette’s order. The habit was damp. Only the face, hands and forearms were uncovered.”
“The head was tilted to the left. The face was dull white. The skin clung to the muscles and the muscles adhered to the bones. The eye sockets were covered by the eyelids. The brows were flat on the skin and stuck to the arches above the eyes. The lashes of the right eyelid were stuck to the skin. The nose was dilated and shrunken. The mouth was open slightly and it could be seen that the teeth were still in place. The hands, which were crossed on her breast, were perfectly preserved, as were the nails. The hands still held a rusting rosary. The veins on the forearms stood out.”
“Like the hands, the feet were wizened and the toenails were still intact (one of them was torn off when the corpse was washed). When the habits had been removed and the veil lifted from the head, the whole of the shriveled body could be seen, rigid and taut in every limb. It was found that the hair, which had been cut short, was stuck to the head and still attached to the skull, that the ears were in a state of perfect preservation, that the left side of the body was slightly higher than the right from the hip up. The stomach had caved in and was taut like the rest of the body. It sounded like cardboard when struck. The left knee was not as large as the right. The ribs protruded as did the muscles in the limbs.”
“So rigid was the body that it could be rolled over and back for washing. The lower parts of the body had turned slightly black. This seems to have been the result of the carbon of which quite large quantities were found in the coffin.”
In witness of which we have duly drawn up this present statement in which all is truthfully recorded. Nevers, September 22, 1909, Drs. Ch. David, A. Jourdan.

“When the coffin was opened the body appeared to be absolutely intact and odorless.” (Dr. Talon was more specific: “There was no smell of putrefaction and none of those present experienced any discomfort.”) The body is practically mummified, covered with patches of mildew and quite a notable layer of salts, which appear to be calcium salts. The skeleton is complete, and it was possible to carry the body to a table without any trouble. The skin has disappeared in some places, but it is still present on most parts of the body. Some of the veins are still visible."

“At the request of the Bishop of Nevers I detached and removed the rear section of the fifth and sixth right ribs as relics; I noted that there was a resistant, hard mass in the thorax, which was the liver covered by the diaphragm. I also took a piece of the diaphragm and the liver beneath it as relics, and can affirm that this organ was in a remarkable state of preservation. I also removed the two patella bones to which the skin clung and which were covered with more clinging calcium matter. Finally, I removed the muscle fragments right and left from the outsides of the thighs. These muscles were also in a very good state of preservation and did not seem to have putrefied at all.”
“From this examination I conclude that the body of the Venerable Bernadette is intact, the skeleton is complete, the muscles have atrophied, but are well preserved; only the skin, which has shriveled, seems to have suffered from the effects of the damp in the coffin. It has taken on a grayish tinge and is covered with patches of mildew and quite a large number of crystals and calcium salts, but the body does not seem to have putrefied, nor has any decomposition of the cadaver set in, although this would be expected and normal after such a long period in a vault hollowed out of the earth.”
Nevers, April 3, 1919, Dr. Comte

In 1928, Doctor Comte published a report on the exhumation of the Blessed Bernadette in the second issue of the Bulletin de I’Association medicale de Notre–Dame de Lourdes.

“I would have liked to open the left side of the thorax to take the ribs as relics and then remove the heart which I am certain must have survived. However, as the trunk was slightly supported on the left arm, it would have been rather difficult to try and get at the heart without doing too much noticeable damage. As the Mother Superior had expressed a desire for the Saint’s heart to be kept together with the whole body, and as Monsignor the Bishop did not insist, I gave up the idea of opening the left-hand side of the thorax and contented myself with removing the two right ribs which were more accessible.”
“What struck me during this examination, of course, was the state of perfect preservation of the skeleton, the fibrous tissues of the muscles (still supple and firm), of the ligaments, and of the skin, and above all the totally unexpected state of the liver after 46 years. One would have thought that this organ, which is basically soft and inclined to crumble, would have decomposed very rapidly or would have hardened to a chalky consistency. Yet, when it was cut it was soft and almost normal in consistency. I pointed this out to those present, remarking that this did not seem to be a natural phenomenon.”

catholicpilgrims.com/lourdes/bb_bernadette_body.htm
 
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