Indecisiveness in picking a faith

  • Thread starter Thread starter Marybeloved
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Kouyate42 said:
I think that what makes people set into one faith is some event or thing which sets their mind to the correct path for them. It can be soomething someone says, does, a passage in a book/Scripture, a piece of
music, anything which focuses the mind and makes the correct faith decision clear as day to them.
Click to expand...
Oh, I think you’ve hit the nail squarely on the head! While I remember learning catholicism through study, and being intellectually certain, it wasnt the reason that pushed me beyond my initial two year indecision and restlessness and jumpiness even though in my mind I had no way of really rejecting Catholicism. Right now its hard for me to experience this indecision because I have had enough of this personal encounters. Its not normal for me to experience the indecision because my subjective experience matches perfectly my rational discoveries and has even moved me beyond the rational search so that I no longer need it.

I think that thats the real reason, no? Often what agrees with our head does not match our own felt experience, and vice versa, so we dont know what direction to pick! I think that what finally allows people to move beyond this is when the two converge- head knowledge and heart knowledge, or rational evidence and raw direct subjective experience. You are absolutely right here. 👍 Perhaps its because youre speaking from experience.

I admit youre one of the people I had in mind with this thread, 😛 but far from the only one. I really do hope you finally got some peace.

Peace.
 
Marybeloved said:
Adam fell for trying instead of allowing himself the trust of Abraham.
Click to expand...
Can you explain this line to me? How could Adam allow himself the trust of Abraham, bweing as Abraham had not come into existence yet?
 
houseofsaul said:
Indecisiveness can also be described at searching for the truth. MY personal experience follows:

Born and raised Freewill Baptist. This entails knowing Scripture thoroughly. However in the Conference that my Church was affiliated to was that you accepted interpretations of the Bible as yur Elders told them to be without question, not unlike the Catholic Church, believe what the Church tells you to believe.

So I disagreed with some of the interpretations. I longed to understand for myself that what my Elders were telling me were accurate and not one a collaborated opinion of a few.

Fast forward to dating age and I met my now husband of 24 years. His mother had just returned to The Catholic Church after being away since the age of 11. And his father a Freewill Baptist in the same conference as my own church.

Dating was interesting, as we had to date via church. So we rotated. My FWB church, the next Sunday The Catholic Church, the next his dad’s FWB church, and so forth and so on. Keep in mind the word Catholic was a dirty word in my world. They worshipped Mary, Prayed to the Dead, Believed the Eucharist became the Body and Blood of Christ, not just a symbol of such, they baptize babies which condemns their soul to Hell. Calling the Priest father.

I had questions, accusations, strong Baptist beliefs. yet I saw something, felt something that wasn’t present in my Baptist Church.

Married. Now I do as I want, dont wanna go to Church, dont gotta, this is my life.

Get pregnant, hmm no longer my life. Need to think about church and God. had my 1st child baptized in the catholic Faith. Start attending Catholic Church regularly, attend RCIA, Bible Study. Cant get past some of my “Catholic hangups”. Namely confessing to a Priest, Calling a priest father.

Fell away from church again. 2nd child born. When I returned to Church went back to FWB. After all The Catholic Church was wrong. Confessing to men, calling a Priest father.

Then the more I attended FWB the more judgmental, holier than thou, the live the perfect life or go to a devil’s Hell. No sinning allowed ever.

I looked at my husband and said I have to find another Church, then cant be the way to be. He said to me. “Well my mother is Catholic and my father is Baptist, Iguess if I ever go to Church it would have to be Methodist, a happy medium”.

So to the Methodist church I trod. Felt at home. Believed in Grace, ok if you mess up, get up and try again. They didnt confess to men and they didnt call the Pastor father.

After much study and discernment, gave the hang up of calling the Priest Father. Still hang up on confessing to men for the absolution of sins. Had asked the question, looking for understanding. Just throw me a bone. The best I got from the priest at the time was, “Just look at me like I am Jesus Christ”. Nothing biblical, scriptural, just do. No, sorry cant do it. Went to the Sister at the Church at the time, her response was “Maybe you are just not meant to be Catholic”. As if I was just supposed to accept everything with blind faith. Had I been able to do that I would have never left the Baptist church.

Then the liberal views of homosexual lifestyles and their rights and women ordination starting to become prevalent in the Methodist Church. I thought well, as long as it doesnt come to MY Methodist Church i am ok. It did.

Went home looked at my husband and said I cant do it anymore. He said well there is only one church (this is after years of maturing and discernment) that will never accept either of those 2 things and they have been doing the same thing since Church began. Yep. The Catholic Church.

Still the hangup of Confession to a Priest. So to the internet I took. After reading, I finally landed on a forum, not this one, and a Protestant and a catholic were in deep discussion about this very thing. The Catholic gentleman did not say just accept it, its the Church teaching, he took the Protestant to the New Testament and showed him the Scripture that backed up this very thing.

So here I am now attending the catholic Church again, fixing to begin RCIA in 2 weeks. Will I join the Church on Easter Vigil? Don’t know. Hope to. Want to. But if I dont or cant that will be just fine with me. because God knows I seek to find Him in truth. And as far as I know the Catholic Church cant throw you out of Mass for not being a member, they can only refuse to serve you the Eucharist. So if I can only receive Christ through the Eucharist spiritually, so be it…I want to know, no blind faith that I am where I am supposed to be and doing what I am supposed to be doing.
Click to expand...
Great story. Sometimes its more about the journey than the destination. I think you are on your way home. God bless…
 
When I returned to the Catholic Church I remember telling my wife "you know we are not trying to find the most ‘perfect, pure. church’ (a rationalization that led me to being Baptist). I said “in a way, we’re walking into a mess!!” 🙂
But isn’t that what God’s Church on earth is like? It’s not perfect, filled with perfect people.
But the Catholic Church at the same time is perfect because it is the Church Christ founded, not because everyone in it is a saint.
 
houseofsaul said:
Can you explain this line to me? How could Adam allow himself the trust of Abraham, bweing as Abraham had not come into existence yet?
Click to expand...
I know this post isn’t meant for me, but if I’m correct, the OP means that Adam did not allow himself the deep and abiding trust that Abraham possessed. “The trust of Abraham” isn’t a trust that only Abraham had, it just means that Abraham is a great example of it.

As another example, it would be like Jane wishing for brown hair like Beth had. Jane doesn’t literally want Beth’s scalp, but she does want the same shade and quality of hair.

Make sense? (OP, please correct me if I’m wrong.)
 
Marybeloved said:
Many people at CAF appear to suffer from this in one form or another (remaining on the fence forever or jumping around from one faith/tradition to another frequently), some for many years. Others are in one faith but display this same confusion even while there. Just what is the problem? I’m not criticizing this- clearly no one does this for fun. But I can’t appreciate it very well either. What goes on that prevents a choice? Is it desiring 100% proof before making a committment (which can hardly be achieved) that causes this?

Peace.
Click to expand...
For me it’s not a theoretical demand for 100% proof, but a personal difficulty in making the adjustments to my life conversion would require when the whole thing seems so uncertain.

But to be honest, my doubts are primarily about Christianity as a whole rather than about Catholicism in particular. Catholicism naturally offers many more things that have to be believed, and in that sense it’s harder to believe than Anglicanism–but at the same time it has a much more coherent account of itself than Anglicanism does, and in that sense it’s easier to believe. So Anglicanism has functioned for me basically as a “place-holder”–a place where I can be a somewhat doubting Christian who does not want to abandon the faith but can’t quite summon the resolve to commit to a form of Christianity that fully makes sense on its own terms (which both Catholicism and Orthodoxy do, in my opinion, but Anglicanism does not).

Also, I love Anglicanism. . . . . and I love my wife, who has no intention of becoming Catholic and became Anglican several years ago.

Edwin
 
houseofsaul said:
Can you explain this line to me? How could Adam allow himself the trust of Abraham, bweing as Abraham had not come into existence yet?
Click to expand...
Lochias said:
I know this post isn’t meant for me, but if I’m correct, the OP means that Adam did not allow himself the deep and abiding trust that Abraham possessed. “The trust of Abraham” isn’t a trust that only Abraham had, it just means that Abraham is a great example of it.

As another example, it would be like Jane wishing for brown hair like Beth had. Jane doesn’t literally want Beth’s scalp, but she does want the same shade and quality of hair.

Make sense? (OP, please correct me if I’m wrong.)
Click to expand...
Yes you’re right. I meant basically that Adam wanted to be self reliant instead of trusting in God’s guidance and obeying like a good son. Abraham, though fallen like everyone else after the fall, did show this filial trust and allowed God to guide him like a little child without having to understand all of God’s purposes before obeying. So Adam lacked this filial submission that Abraham would later exemplify, even though he was fallen.
 
Contarini said:
But to be honest, my doubts are primarily about Christianity as a whole rather than about Catholicism in particular.

Edwin
Click to expand...
Ha! 🙂

I’m convinced that God has an excellent sense of humor; Perhaps hes has placed you in the tar-pit of Anglicism so that the more you struggle, the more you are captured.

For me, sometimes I think he placed me with the Lutherans to turn my disobedient and rebellious tendencies upon myself - knowing all the while I don’t have much free-will about it.

God is good to me - he gives me joy to laugh at my own hubris.
 
O come on you two- just do it! (the anglican and the lutheran) Like a dare. :)😛
 
Marybeloved said:
Oh, I think you’ve hit the nail squarely on the head! While I remember learning catholicism through study, and being intellectually certain, it wasnt the reason that pushed me beyond my initial two year indecision and restlessness and jumpiness even though in my mind I had no way of really rejecting Catholicism. Right now its hard for me to experience this indecision because I have had enough of this personal encounters. Its not normal for me to experience the indecision because my subjective experience matches perfectly my rational discoveries and has even moved me beyond the rational search so that I no longer need it.

I think that thats the real reason, no? Often what agrees with our head does not match our own felt experience, and vice versa, so we dont know what direction to pick! I think that what finally allows people to move beyond this is when the two converge- head knowledge and heart knowledge, or rational evidence and raw direct subjective experience. You are absolutely right here. 👍 Perhaps its because youre speaking from experience.

I admit youre one of the people I had in mind with this thread, 😛 but far from the only one. I really do hope you finally got some peace.

Peace.
Click to expand...
Definitely. Sometimes what the head and heart want are two seperate things and sometimes it can feel as though you’re trying to deal with two completely contradictory things which aren’t going to be reunited at all.

In Islam it is often said that Islam ‘enters into the heart’ when someone converts. The words of Qur’an can be read with the eyes easily by anyone, and it will likely do nothing. The truly life-changing thing happens where the words of Qur’an enter not just into the mind but into the heart also, entering into that emotional and spiritual side of us also, changing us. As you say, heart and head need to come together before someone decides on a faith path (or indeed anything).
 
Well as an indecisive Christian seeker, I think it has to do with making the right choice. I find myself being drawn to both Catholicism and Orthodoxy but I want to make the right choice, so I’ve been doing my best studying about them. I think it’s for the best because if I just randomly choose I’m not being fair to myself or the congregates of those churches. I’ve been seeking about a year now; it’s tough and I’m still learning…It also doesn’t help that most of my family is pretty secular( I have nothing against secular people and love my family).

Though I’m sure others are fully ready to commit but fear they can’t live by those standards or they’ll be judged( I’m definetly a little guilty of that. 😦 ).
 
WoundedIcon said:
When you’re young and have social anxiety issues then yes, dealing with the kind of stuff Protestants like to throw at Catholics is a major source of stress and fear. I’m very bad at defending myself, even though I have head knowledge I always seem to get stereotyped/relativismed to death :rolleyes: Not to mention being a millennial makes being a member of the “big, bad, evil” organized religion quite difficult. I feel ostracized and kind of helpless when it comes to changing people’s minds.
Click to expand...
I know the feeling. Some of us have to deal with Protestants more than others. I am a convert and my entire family is Protestant, my brother is an atheist and he gives me a hard time too, plus most of my friends are “reformed” protestants so I get stuff thrown at me all the time, and even though I have studied until my brains exploded and know my stuff really well I still have trouble defending the faith too, partly because I never know the right words at the time, plus I have to try explaining it in a way they will understand and try to defuse their loaded and accusatory questions. It’s hardest when you have like five people teaming up on you. They will point to the fact that you’re having trouble answering, or that your answers are not “as good as theirs,” and they will think that you are unsure of yourself or that their (name removed by moderator)ut is more logical than yours.
 
Not to mention some things are really hard to defend and/or explain with Protestants, like the role of Mary, the meaning of “no salvation outside the church,” and the infallibility of the Church in light of the corrupt practices of the Catholic Church at the time of the reformation. I know what our answers are on these subjects, but honestly if I were not already Catholic I would not find the answers convincing at all.
 
Marybeloved said:
Many people at CAF appear to suffer from this in one form or another (remaining on the fence forever or jumping around from one faith/tradition to another frequently), some for many years. Others are in one faith but display this same confusion even while there. Just what is the problem? I’m not criticizing this- clearly no one does this for fun. But I can’t appreciate it very well either. What goes on that prevents a choice? Is it desiring 100% proof before making a committment (which can hardly be achieved) that causes this?

Peace.
Click to expand...
Good question Mary… No it’s not fun. It’s a struggle. At times during my journey it was frankly torture. Unless someone has truly experienced it, they can’t begin to imagine.

There have been many good points already posted by other posters which I agree with. So I won’t repeat all of them. But I’ll just say for me it was never a need for 100% proof of faith. I know that is impossible in matters of faith. Which is why I have difficulty when Catholics and others go around saying they “know” and hold the Truth when really it is they believe and have faith they do.

Yet at the same time fear can play a role. Publisher I believe touched on the role fear can play. I think someone who has been indoctrinated in such faiths as Catholicism can have much fear and guilt instilled in them. When for instance they are judged they could not be saved if they do not remain, while they might be uncomfortable with some teachings, at the same time they might think well but what if they are right? So in such a case a person is not sure but has had that fear so indoctrinated into them that they might not be as decisive as you might like them to be. In the case of those of your church who are indecisive though, perhaps they might come to repent at some point before they take their last breath. But asking them to be decisive and then if they don’t remain in any way, a faith like Catholicism may never see them again. I would not think a faithful Catholic would want that result for the person.

And as Publisher I think also alluded to, not everyone needs everything in matters of faith spoonfed and spelled out for them. They might have a need to explore matters of faith, the freedom to use their own minds and reason, to pray for the guidance and discernment of the Holy Spirit. Publisher might say of the Light. Same thing to me.

In other words they need to be able to breathe or else they might suffocate.

All of this can make faiths such as Catholicism which allow for less dissent difficult for someone wired like that. I also find for me some adherents of such faiths can at times too often come across to me at least as “holier than thou” which is a big turn off to me personally. I know personally one of the things which was a huge detriment to my faith and turned me off was being told despite Catholic Church teaching to the contrary, that I was not or could not be a Catholic because I don’t vote a certain way or am not pure enough in my expression of faith. It only ended up driving me further away giving me less desire to practice even more fully. Only God knows His plan for how my lifelong journey on earth with Him will end. I only know while my struggles may not yet be fully gone, I am at more peace now than I have ever been in my faith walk. And I thank Him for that.

I’m letting His Spirit lead me the rest of the way. A former Catholic priest, turned Episcopal priest once told me, if we listen to God’s Spirit, He will tell us where He wants us to be. And that’s what I’m trying to do.

Because only God truly knows hearts. And knows a believer who may be indecisive as you call it, is not necessarily lukewarm for Him in their hearts as they strive to journey with Him. God bless you on yours and peace.
 
I’m one of those people that jumps around.

I was baptized Episcopalian (Anglican) as an infant.
I was raised Pentecostal and baptized again there.
I went to an evangelical mega-church for a few months.
I became a Mormon at age 11, and was baptized there.
I became a Muslim at 14. Sunni at first, Shia this year.
I have not been baptized into the Seventh-day Adventist church, but I have gone to church and participated and whatnot.
I dabbled in Hinduism for very very short periods of time.
I dabbled in Witchcraft for around a month or so.

What can I say? I’m a drifter! 😛

But in all seriously, I hope to find the truth at some point. The reason I am such a drifter is because in all the places I have been, I have found the truth to not be there. I am currently reading “A Biblical Defense of Catholicism”, which I hope will shed some light on the matter.
 
Zulfiqar said:
I’m one of those people that jumps around.

I was baptized Episcopalian (Anglican) as an infant.
I was raised Pentecostal and baptized again there.
I went to an evangelical mega-church for a few months.
I became a Mormon at age 11, and was baptized there.
I became a Muslim at 14. Sunni at first, Shia this year.
I have not been baptized into the Seventh-day Adventist church, but I have gone to church and participated and whatnot.
I dabbled in Hinduism for very very short periods of time.
I dabbled in Witchcraft for around a month or so.

What can I say? I’m a drifter! 😛

But in all seriously, I hope to find the truth at some point. The reason I am such a drifter is because in all the places I have been, I have found the truth to not be there. I am currently reading “A Biblical Defense of Catholicism”, which I hope will shed some light on the matter.
Click to expand...
Peace Zulfiqar. Sometimes I have even wondered if man from early on messed up and the one truth is not to be found completely in any one place on earth. All we can do is seek though. In any case I wish you peace.
 
Kouyate42 said:
For me personally it was hearing a passage of the Qur’an and truly feeling something other than just hearing someone read words off a page. I felt almost like those words were written for me and that God truly was speaking to me directly.
Click to expand...
So what is it that makes you keep turning back every time this happens then? IIRC this is the 4th time you’ve chosen Islam once and for all.
 
Zulfiqar said:
I’m one of those people that jumps around.

I was baptized Episcopalian (Anglican) as an infant.
I was raised Pentecostal and baptized again there.
I went to an evangelical mega-church for a few months.
I became a Mormon at age 11, and was baptized there.
I became a Muslim at 14. Sunni at first, Shia this year.
I have not been baptized into the Seventh-day Adventist church, but I have gone to church and participated and whatnot.
I dabbled in Hinduism for very very short periods of time.
I dabbled in Witchcraft for around a month or so.

What can I say? I’m a drifter! 😛

But in all seriously, I hope to find the truth at some point. The reason I am such a drifter is because in all the places I have been, I have found the truth to not be there. I am currently reading “A Biblical Defense of Catholicism”, which I hope will shed some light on the matter.
Click to expand...
Wow, Zulfiqar!! That’s really quite a trip there. How old are you now, if you don’t mind my asking?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top