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jimmy
Guest
The church is refered to as her because she is considered to be the bride of Christ. Christ protects her through the Holy Spirit and he provides for the church with his grace.
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RNRobert
Guest
Good point!
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Matt16_18
Guest
I think that this thread will be incomplete until someone explains exactly what are the “certain prescribed conditions” that allow one to receive the complete remission of the temporal punishments due his sins. IOW, just what are the conditions that “the faithful Christian who is duly disposed” must meet before that Christian actually receives a plenary indulgence?
A person would go straight to heaven if he died in a state where all the temporal punishments due his sins were remitted.
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Matt16_18
Guest
INDULGENCES ARE EXPRESSION OF GOD’S MERCY
Pope John Paul II … Experience shows, in fact, that indulgences are sometimes received with superficial attitudes that ultimately frustrate God’s gift and cast a shadow on the very truths and values taught by the Church. …
Inner conversion is required to benefit from indulgences
… indulgences, far from being a sort of “discount” on the duty of conversion, are instead an aid to its prompt, generous and radical fulfilment. This is required to such an extent that the spiritual condition for receiving a plenary indulgence is the exclusion “of all attachment to sin, even venial sin” (Enchiridion Indulgentiarum, p. 25).
Therefore, it would be a mistake to think that we can receive this gift by simply performing certain outward acts. On the contrary, they are required as the expression and support of our progress in conversion.
Pope John Paul II … Experience shows, in fact, that indulgences are sometimes received with superficial attitudes that ultimately frustrate God’s gift and cast a shadow on the very truths and values taught by the Church. …
Inner conversion is required to benefit from indulgences
… indulgences, far from being a sort of “discount” on the duty of conversion, are instead an aid to its prompt, generous and radical fulfilment. This is required to such an extent that the spiritual condition for receiving a plenary indulgence is the exclusion “of all attachment to sin, even venial sin” (Enchiridion Indulgentiarum, p. 25).
Therefore, it would be a mistake to think that we can receive this gift by simply performing certain outward acts. On the contrary, they are required as the expression and support of our progress in conversion.
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RNRobert
Guest
Matt16_18 said:
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Alma
Guest
Reply: Pardon my English, I am a Spanish speaking member.Let me throw this out here. On Friday, I completed all the steps necessary for obtaining a Plenary Indulgence. After I finished my adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, I could not believe the feeling of … clean that I felt.
However, over the next few days, I was hit with a incredible level of nearly overwhelming temptation. I felt like I had a huge target painted on my chest for all the evil in the world.
Has anyone else felt this? I’m wondering if it’s just in my head or if there’s really some truth to it, that is, when one removes all temporal punishment that has been “built up” over the years of sinful living, are the Evil One’s efforts redoubled?
I’d appreciate any insight you could offer.
Peace and God bless!
Eric
Remember what St Peter says in 1Pe 5,8; the devil is always searching for someone to devour, and he is certainly not happy when he looses his grip on a soul.
What to do when temptation strikes seemingly harder than before? St Ignatius of Loyola said that when one experiences temptation one should do the opposite of what that temptation leads you to do. For example: you planned to pray for an hour, and at half an hour you begin to think: ‘this is too mucho, I am getting tired, I think maybe I could stop now’, what should you do? Not only not stop, but pray half an hour ¡more! than what you intended. The devil will never tempt you again in that way because now he knows that he will obtain the opposite of what he wanted.
So, when you experience temptation after going to Confession and after obtaining an indulgence, do not yield. Hold on to God’s hand, and He will see you through.
Alma
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enanneman
Guest
God bless you, Alma!
Eric
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Genesis315
Guest
Can you know if you received a plenary? I wasn’t sure if this was considered possible. That element of being free from all attachment to sin is incredibly difficult, so can we be sure if we really are? I once read something (sorry i don’t remember the specifics) where some saint was giving some sort of public blessing or he was leading a group Rosary or something and he was able to see who had received the plenary and of the 1000s and 1000s of people there only himself and a little old lady received it. I apologize for not knowing the details off the top of my head.
Another quick question: should the indulgence carrying act be performed before the other elements are met, or after they are met?
Another quick question: should the indulgence carrying act be performed before the other elements are met, or after they are met?
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anfcatholic.com
Guest
I am struggling to understand the seemingly legalistic requirements for gaining indulgences. My understanding of indulgences and why the Church promotes them is that they help us to grow closer to God when we do our part to repair the damage sin causes. It makes sense that when we perform acts of charity, pray, and receive the sacraments, etc, with the correct disposition, we are going to be distancing ourselves from the snares of sin and growing closer in our relationship with God, thus decreasing or eliminating “time” in purgatory which would otherwise be needed to do the same thing. That much makes sense to me but what I have a hard time with is statements like these:
3. Adoration of the Most Blessed Sacrament (Adoratio Sami Sacramenti)
A partial indulgence is granted to the faithful, who visit the Most Blessed Sacrament to adore it;
a plenary indulgence is granted, if the visit lasts for at least one half an hour.
13. Visit to a Cemetery (Coemeterii visitatio)
An indulgence, applicable only to the Souls in Purgatory, is granted to the faithful, who devoutly visit a cemetery and pray, even if only mentally, for the departed.
The indulgence is plenary each day from the 1st to the 8th of November; on other days of the year it is partial.
It just doesn’t make sense to me that the only difference is the date when visiting the cemetery, or that at least 30 minutes was spent in adoration. If all of the requirements for a plenary indulgence were met (confession, prayer for Pope’s intentions, no attachment to sin), but it was November 9th or you spent 29 minutes in adoration the indulgence obtained would only be partial?
One response I can think of is that the partial indulgence you would obtain would be very close to plenary, making expiation for nearly all temporal punishment, but the legalistic terminology used does bother me.
Insights into understanding the legalisticity of indulgences appreciated.
3. Adoration of the Most Blessed Sacrament (Adoratio Sami Sacramenti)
A partial indulgence is granted to the faithful, who visit the Most Blessed Sacrament to adore it;
a plenary indulgence is granted, if the visit lasts for at least one half an hour.
13. Visit to a Cemetery (Coemeterii visitatio)
An indulgence, applicable only to the Souls in Purgatory, is granted to the faithful, who devoutly visit a cemetery and pray, even if only mentally, for the departed.
The indulgence is plenary each day from the 1st to the 8th of November; on other days of the year it is partial.
It just doesn’t make sense to me that the only difference is the date when visiting the cemetery, or that at least 30 minutes was spent in adoration. If all of the requirements for a plenary indulgence were met (confession, prayer for Pope’s intentions, no attachment to sin), but it was November 9th or you spent 29 minutes in adoration the indulgence obtained would only be partial?
One response I can think of is that the partial indulgence you would obtain would be very close to plenary, making expiation for nearly all temporal punishment, but the legalistic terminology used does bother me.
Insights into understanding the legalisticity
of indulgences appreciated.
J
jimmy
Guest
This confuses me too. It turns salvation into pure legalism.I am struggling to understand the seemingly legalistic requirements for gaining indulgences. My understanding of indulgences and why the Church promotes them is that they help us to grow closer to God when we do our part to repair the damage sin causes. It makes sense that when we perform acts of charity, pray, and receive the sacraments, etc, with the correct disposition, we are going to be distancing ourselves from the snares of sin and growing closer in our relationship with God, thus decreasing or eliminating “time” in purgatory which would otherwise be needed to do the same thing. That much makes sense to me but what I have a hard time with is statements like these:
3. Adoration of the Most Blessed Sacrament (Adoratio Sami Sacramenti)
A partial indulgence is granted to the faithful, who visit the Most Blessed Sacrament to adore it;
a plenary indulgence is granted, if the visit lasts for at least one half an hour.
13. Visit to a Cemetery (Coemeterii visitatio)
An indulgence, applicable only to the Souls in Purgatory, is granted to the faithful, who devoutly visit a cemetery and pray, even if only mentally, for the departed.
The indulgence is plenary each day from the 1st to the 8th of November; on other days of the year it is partial.
It just doesn’t make sense to me that the only difference is the date when visiting the cemetery, or that at least 30 minutes was spent in adoration. If all of the requirements for a plenary indulgence were met (confession, prayer for Pope’s intentions, no attachment to sin), but it was November 9th or you spent 29 minutes in adoration the indulgence obtained would only be partial?
One response I can think of is that the partial indulgence you would obtain would be very close to plenary, making expiation for nearly all temporal punishment, but the legalistic terminology used does bother me.
Insights into understanding the legalisticity
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RNRobert
Guest
I got a PM from anfcatholic asking my (name removed by moderator)ut on his questions. As for a plenary indulgence for visiting a cemetery between November 1st thru the 8th and a partial indulgence the rest of the year, I think that has to do with the fact that the time of the year is dedicated to the souls of the departed - Nov 1 is All Saints Day, and the 2nd is All Souls Day.
Regarding the indulgence for adoration of the blessed sacrament, I don’t think God’s going to dock us if we short him by a minute. The 30 minute requirement is just a general guideline. IMO, 15 minutes in front of the Sacrament spent with heartfelt devotion is better than a half hour spent watching the clock so that you can leave once the 30 minutes are up.
Regarding the indulgence for adoration of the blessed sacrament, I don’t think God’s going to dock us if we short him by a minute. The 30 minute requirement is just a general guideline. IMO, 15 minutes in front of the Sacrament spent with heartfelt devotion is better than a half hour spent watching the clock so that you can leave once the 30 minutes are up.
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LilyM
Guest
It’s saying that if you spend half an hour in adoration, or scripture reading or what have you, you certainly gain a plenary indulgence (assuming all the other conditions are met of course). If you spend less, quite possibly you also get a plenary. I don’t think God’s BOUND to give you ONLY a partial, rather that at the minimum you’ll get a partial.
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anfcatholic.com
Guest
Looking at it like this does reduce the legalisticness.
Thanks, LilyM and RNRobert for your responses.
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stephanut
Guest
is the list of indulgences a form of law? if it is, then isn’t picking and choosing contradictory to the laying down of all this “laws” which give specific times like 15 or 30 minutes?
pardon me, but it all sounds so legalistic!
pardon me, but it all sounds so legalistic!
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RNRobert
Guest
I don’t know if it’s a “law,” I believe it is rather a guideline.
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LilyM
Guest
Well it’s a bit more dependable than a guideline - I’d describe it as a procedure. Rather like the defined set of steps you must go through to obtain a drivers licence, or to be permitted to practice as a doctor or lawyer, something like that.
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RNRobert
Guest
Thanks Lily! 
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