Indult Mass and Rights

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csr:
There is a degree of misinformation that circulates rather breathlessly within the Novus Ordo, viz. that the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) is in schism and that one cannot attend masses said by SSPX priests. I encourage you to read the web sites sspx.org, sspx.ca, and sspxasia.com so that you can find out what they say for themselves. It has been broadly demonstrated that attending an SSPX mass is completely safe. Also, there was a great injustice in the way the SSPX was treated by the Vatican from the period 1975 - 1988.

Much as some observers oversimplify and caricature the pre-conciliar Church, the positions of the SSPX in respect of the Second Vatican Council, the Novus Ordo rite of mass, and other details tend to be poorly understood. Two human interest points to consider: Fr. Somerville, who worked on the ICEL, has recently stated that he regrets his work within the Novus Ordo, and has affirmed the SSPX as a faithful group upholding Catholic tradition. St. Padre Pio, loved by almost all Catholics, was horrified at the changes being proposed to the liturgy in the mid-1960s, and begged “for pity’s sake” (1) that the council be ended to avoid as much damage as possible. He considered 1965 a “time of darkness”.

The “Tridentine Mass”, which in essential details dates to Pope St. Gregory, is an immemorial custom, and to deprive Catholics of it is an unjust hurt.
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:tiphat: :clapping: .
 
CST = would we expect a SSPX web site to say they are in schism, of course not.

They maintain they are not in schism, Rome maintains they are. I follow Rome and I attend a valid and licit Tridentine Mass.
 
Well I am a little tired of this SSPX debating. And I can’t understand why some people waffle about it - for it one day and against it the next. As for the councils, I am going to post one link and then I won’t be back to this discusison or any other about SSPX because there seems to be no reasoning with any of them - not now and not in 10 years I have been on forums. They just keep repeating the same things over and over until they wear you out or wear you down and I am worn out. Too bad because I am a traditionalist and I attend Tridentine Mass but I can’t buy into their rhetoric. Some forums would not even allow it to continue.

Meanwhile if you want to read what one well respected traditional priest had to say about the Councils on another forum here is the URL

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthre…toral#post85792
 
I just wanted to add that the “indult” mass is vulnerable to modernist liturgical practice, such as communion in the hand and communion standing. Also the priests are censored in not being permitted to extol the earlier rites of Mass and to criticize the Novus Ordo. Other problems: the indult mass only covers the one sacrament; the others are still modernist. The indult mass must be willing to use hosts consecrated at a Novus Ordo celebration, which could be problematic in one instance or another, where form, matter, and/or intent have been compromised as happens not infrequently in the Novus Ordo. Catechesis is still modernist for anyone attending an indult service.

I do find it odd that homosexual services with altered liturgies, and other bizarre liturgies, require no “indult”, while the traditional liturgy organically connected to centuries’ of saints is alleged to require permission.
 
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csr:
I just wanted to add that the “indult” mass is vulnerable to modernist liturgical practice, such as communion in the hand and communion standing. Also the priests are censored in not being permitted to extol the earlier rites of Mass and to criticize the Novus Ordo. Other problems: the indult mass only covers the one sacrament; the others are still modernist. The indult mass must be willing to use hosts consecrated at a Novus Ordo celebration, which could be problematic in one instance or another, where form, matter, and/or intent have been compromised as happens not infrequently in the Novus Ordo. Catechesis is still modernist for anyone attending an indult service.

I do find it odd that homosexual services with altered liturgies, and other bizarre liturgies, require no “indult”, while the traditional liturgy organically connected to centuries’ of saints is alleged to require permission.
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I PERSONALLY ATTEND THE INDUL LAIN TRIDENTINE MASS at Saint Agnes Parish in Manhattan in New York City on Sundays at 11:00AM, and I do not see the problems you mention. We must ALWAYS remain united to ROME, and the Holy Father, and we must be careful with CERTAIN “traditionalist” groups who despise the Pope, and ANYTHING NOVUS ORDO. or who FALSElY claim the Novus Ordo is invalid, and evil. To beleive that would not only BE diabolical, but away from the Holy Roman Catholic Church. Yes INDULT Lain Tridentine Mass, NO to NON-Indult Tridentine Masses of certain groups. Also, in Canon Law there is NO such thing as an “independent” priest. A priest IN ORDER!!! To function as a priest, MUST have the Canonical Faculties of the BISHOP of the diocese he is in. If Diocesan, he must have HIS Bishop’s “faculties”, if a religious order, he MUST get the faculties from EACH Bishop of each DIOCESE where he plans to exercise his ministry for more than a year. New Code of canon Law of 1983.
 
I just wanted to add that the “indult” mass is vulnerable to modernist liturgical practice, such as communion in the hand and communion standing. Also the priests are censored in not being permitted to extol the earlier rites of Mass and to criticize the Novus Ordo. Other problems: the indult mass only covers the one sacrament; the others are still modernist. The indult mass must be willing to use hosts consecrated at a Novus Ordo celebration, which could be problematic in one instance or another, where form, matter, and/or intent have been compromised as happens not infrequently in the Novus Ordo. Catechesis is still modernist for anyone attending an indult service
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Piffle! Sounds like pure SSPX propaganda to me.
 
I just don’t get it. What is the agenda of the SSPX other than to bad mouth every Catholic that is not SSPX?

They claim they are the true faith but they come to forums like this and alienate Catholics, including those who also prefer the Tridentine Mass.

Now I thought the purpose of a true Catholic was to save souls - to hope to see our estranged relatives and atheist friends in heaven some day and so to try to convert them. The SSPX approaches I have seen exhibited in this forum would never convert anyone - they might run as far and as fast as they could.

Somehow I think the SSPX would just delight in seeing all of the rest of us burn in hell so they could have heaven all to themselves. Why have they no charity? Why are they so mean spirited in their posts?

They try to hijack every thread they can and turn it into a pro-SSPX agenda.

In all fairness, I have only met a couple of people who attend SSPX chapels and they don’t buy into the rhetoric but the SSPX folks who come to this forum and others, do indeed seem representative of the picture I paint above.

SSPXers and I both prefer the Tridentine Mass. There it ends. They are no different than Martin Luther or any other “break away” sect who were unwilling to stick with the Church through any crisis (real or perceived) and to offer their suffering to God through prayer if they believed there was error. Another thing they may have forgotten, God loves obedience not dissent.
They find the Church too liberal and want to make it more Orthodox they say.

These dissenters are no better than the Call to Action Folks who finding the Church too orthodox wants to make it more liberal.

I see one good thing that has come from all my energies to try to combat this on this forum and that is that you, Misericordie, have come to a fuller understanding of the difference and will become a strong voice in support of remaining in the Church and in recognizing the validty of the Ordo Missae as well as the Tridentine Mass so long as it is licit. This I consider a real victory for Christ.

I hope never to post on this subject again in this forum.
 
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