Inerrancy v. Infallibility

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sardegnr

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Why is it that infallibility is confined to issues of faith & morals while inerrancy is not? Conversely, why is it that inerrency is not limited to matters of faith & morals but infallibility is? Why the inconsistency?
 
Inerrancy is generally considered to be an attribute of scripture, whereas infallibility is a quality of teaching, or proclamation of the word. Words have meaning and are written exactly as they are spoken. However, those who interpret the actual meaning of those words, especially in a particular context, must be able to teach infallibly the meaning of those words - free of twisting or personal influence.
 
I understand that one term deals w/ scripture and the other deals w/ Church teaching. Perhaps I should have been more specific. The Church very clearly teaches that the infallibility of its teaching, and that of the Pope, is limited strictly to matters involving faith or morals. The doctrine of inerrancy of scripute, however, is not so limited. While Vatican II arguably implied that inerrancy IS limited to matters of faith or morals, i.e., those matters necessary for our salvation, it is widely held that the doctrine of inerrancy is not to be so limited and that the Council intended no such limitation. In other words, scripture is free from all error in any matter asserted, not just in matters of faith or morals. My question is that if the doctrine of inerrancy is not limited to matters of faith or morals, why then is the doctrine of infallibility so limited? I see a disconnect/inconsistency there.
 
I understand that one term deals w/ scripture and the other deals w/ Church teaching. Perhaps I should have been more specific. The Church very clearly teaches that the infallibility of its teaching, and that of the Pope, is limited strictly to matters involving faith or morals. The doctrine of inerrancy of scripute, however, is not so limited. While Vatican II arguably implied that inerrancy IS limited to matters of faith or morals, i.e., those matters necessary for our salvation, it is widely held that the doctrine of inerrancy is not to be so limited and that the Council intended no such limitation. In other words, scripture is free from all error in any matter asserted, not just in matters of faith or morals. My question is that if the doctrine of inerrancy is not limited to matters of faith or morals, why then is the doctrine of infallibility so limited? I see a disconnect/inconsistency there.
Infallibility of Church teaching is regarding matters of faith and morals.
Inerrancy of the Bible is regarding the truths necessary for our salvation (i.e. matters of faith and morals).
Whether the Bible correctly or not says someone’s roof is tiled instead of thatched would not involve our salvation.
 
Infallibility of Church teaching is regarding matters of faith and morals.
Inerrancy of the Bible is regarding the truths necessary for our salvation (i.e. matters of faith and morals).
Whether the Bible correctly or not says someone’s roof is tiled instead of thatched would not involve our salvation.
Pope Leo XIII, Providentissimus Deus: “But it is absolutely wrong and forbidden, either to narrow inspiration to certain parts only of Holy Scripture, or to admit that the sacred writer has erred. For **the system of those who, in order to rid themselves of these difficulties, do not hesitate to concede that divine inspiration regards the things of faith and morals, and nothing beyond, because **(as they wrongly think) in a question of the truth or falsehood of a passage, we should consider not so much what God has said as the reason and purpose which He had in mind in saying it – this system cannot be tolerated. For all the books which the Church receives as sacred and canonical, are written wholly and entirely, with all their parts, at the dictation of the Holy Ghost; and so far is it from being possible that any error can co-exist with inspiration, that inspiration not only is essentially incompatible with error, but excludes and rejects it as absolutely and necessarily as it is impossible that God Himself, the supreme Truth, can utter that which is not true. This is the ancient and unchanging faith of the Church, solemnly defined in the Councils of Florence and of Trent, and finally confirmed and more expressly formulated by the Council of the Vatican. These are the words of the last: "The Books of the Old and New Testament, whole and entire, with all their parts, as enumerated in the decree of the same Council (Trent) and in the ancient Latin Vulgate, are to be received as sacred and canonical. And the Church holds them as sacred and canonical, not because, having been composed by human industry, they were afterwards approved by her authority; nor only because they contain revelation without error; but because, having been written under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, they have God for their author."57 Hence, because the Holy Ghost employed men as His instruments, we cannot therefore say that it was these inspired instruments who, perchance, have fallen into error, and not the primary author. For, by supernatural power, He so moved and impelled them to write – He was so present to them – that the things which He ordered, and those only, they, first, rightly understood, then willed faithfully to write down, and finally expressed in apt words and with infallible truth. Otherwise, it could not be said that He was the Author of the entire Scripture. Such has always been the persuasion of the Fathers. “Therefore,” says St. Augustine, "since they wrote the things which He showed and uttered to them, it cannot be pretended that He is not the writer; for His members executed what their Head dictated."58 And St. Gregory the Great thus pronounces: "Most superfluous it is to inquire who wrote these things – we loyally believe the Holy Ghost to be the Author of the book. He wrote it Who dictated it for writing; He wrote it Who inspired its execution.
  1. It follows that those who maintain that an error is possible in any genuine passage of the sacred writings, either pervert the Catholic notion of inspiration, or make God the author of such error. And so emphatically were all the Fathers and Doctors agreed that the divine writings, as left by the hagiographers, are free from all error, that they labored earnestly, with no less skill than reverence, to reconcile with each other those numerous passages which seem at variance – the very passages which in great measure have been taken up by the “higher criticism;” for they were unanimous in laying it down, that those writings, in their entirety and in all their parts were equally from the afflatus of Almighty God, and that God, speaking by the sacred writers, could not set down anything but what was true”.
As the above quote demonstrates, the Church teaches dogmatically that there are no errors in the Scriptures - not only the parts pertaining to faith and morals, but the teachings on history and natural science as well. Let us hold fast to this dogmatic teaching of the Church in confused times when it is rejected by many.
 
CCC 107 The inspired books teach the truth. “Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures.”

If the Bible says a roof was red that may or may not be correct and it does not matter because it has no bearing on our salvation.

The inerrancy of Scripture relates to the truths necessary for our salvation.
 
Greetings in the Lord, sardegnr!

The reason why the infallibility of the Church is limited is because Scripture is “profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:16-17), and is “the most precious source of doctrine on faith and morals” (Divino Afflante Spiritu). The Bible makes the Church expert in Christian truth, and God has given her the gift of infallibility to secure a final answer for the faithful on Christian doctrine so that we would not be left “always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth” (2 Timothy 3:7), the saving Truth! The verses of Scripture that explain the Church’s infallible authority indicate that this infallibility extends to matters that deal with sin, discipleship, etc. (cf. Matthew 18:15-20, 28:18-20).

The Bible, on the other hand, was written by God, so its inerrancy is unlimited. For those passages in Scripture that seem to deal with questions of scientific truth, the Church defers to the demonstrations of science to shed light on the proper interpretation and to appreciate how these passages nourish the Christian faith.
CCC 107 The inspired books teach the truth. “Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures.”

If the Bible says a roof was red that may or may not be correct and it does not matter because it has no bearing on our salvation.

The inerrancy of Scripture relates to the truths necessary for our salvation.
Hi Thistle!

My old friend.

God wrote the Bible for the sake of our salvation, this is true. Every verse of the Bible was written with this end in view, and every verse of the Bible was written by God. If the human author asserts that a roof was red, this has been asserted by the Holy Spirit for the sake of our salvation, and it is true.

The limitation of inerrancy to faith and morals has been condemned by the Church as false.

Have a blessed day, brother!

In Christ,
Pete
 
Greetings in the Lord, sardegnr!

The reason why the infallibility of the Church is limited is because Scripture is “profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:16-17), and is “the most precious source of doctrine on faith and morals” (Divino Afflante Spiritu). The Bible makes the Church expert in Christian truth, and God has given her the gift of infallibility to secure a final answer for the faithful on Christian doctrine so that we would not be left “always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth” (2 Timothy 3:7), the saving Truth! The verses of Scripture that explain the Church’s infallible authority indicate that this infallibility extends to matters that deal with sin, discipleship, etc. (cf. Matthew 18:15-20, 28:18-20).

The Bible, on the other hand, was written by God, so its inerrancy is unlimited. For those passages in Scripture that seem to deal with questions of scientific truth, the Church defers to the demonstrations of science to shed light on the proper interpretation and to appreciate how these passages nourish the Christian faith.

Hi Thistle!

My old friend.

God wrote the Bible for the sake of our salvation, this is true. Every verse of the Bible was written with this end in view, and every verse of the Bible was written by God. If the human author asserts that a roof was red, this has been asserted by the Holy Spirit for the sake of our salvation, and it is true.

The limitation of inerrancy to faith and morals has been condemned by the Church as false.

Have a blessed day, brother!

In Christ,
Pete
So you are saying the teaching from the CCC (see below) is false and that the Church has publically stated what is in the CCC is false?

CCC 107 The inspired books teach the truth. “Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and** without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures**.”
 
Something can be absolutely true without being factual in all it’s details. Doesn’t one have to take into account the style of writing and the genre? For instance, we know the gospels are accurate in reporting what Jesus said. When He told a parable, we know it was a story for the purpose of making a point. We don’t believe that the story is factual.

Is it likely that some of the books or sections of the Old Testament as well were similar to a parable, that this was the intention of the human author and of God Himself, and that the people of that time for whom they were first written understood this? If, for instance, the book of Job (I’ve not made a study of it and am only using it as an example) is an example of this type of writing, we aren’t expected to take from the story that God is in the habit of making a bet with Satan because that’s not God’s purpose and it’s obvious to the reader.

It’s important to look at the kind of writing. Do we have to believe that David was literally surrounded by lions? That He was literally abandoned by God when He wrote in the psalm, “My God , my God, why have you abandoned me.”?

The Catholic Church teaches that the books of the bible are inspired, not dictated. And also, we should be very conscious that we are reading a translation of a translation of the original languages. Even an approved translation doesn’t convey all the nuances of the original writing. We are not like some Protestants who really do think that the old English expressions of the KJV are the literal words of almighty God.
 
So you are saying the teaching from the CCC (see below) is false and that the Church has publically stated what is in the CCC is false?

CCC 107 The inspired books teach the truth. “Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and** without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures**.”
Greetings in the LORD, brother Thistle!

I am saying that your understanding of what this sentence from Dei Verbum means is incorrect. :o

Pope Pius XII taught us in Divino Afflante Spiritu that the limitation of “the truth of Sacred Scripture solely to matters of faith and morals” was a justly and rightly condemned proposition because the so-called “science” and “history” of the Bible are connected with faith and are therefore similarly free “from any error whatsoever.” And he further explained in Humani Generis that “if the Supreme Pontiffs in their official documents purposely pass judgment on a matter up to that time under dispute, it is obvious that that matter, according to the mind and will of the Pontiffs, cannot be any longer considered a question open to discussion among theologians.” Pius moved on to specifically identify the limitation of the “immunity from error… to those parts of the Bible that treat of God or of moral and religious matters” as a matter “already often condemned.”

Dei Verbum has a footnote to guide our interpretation of the sentence quoted by the Catechism. Here is the footnote:
  1. cf. St. Augustine, “Gen. ad Litt.” 2, 9, 20:PL 34, 270-271; Epistle 82, 3: PL 33, 277: CSEL 34, 2, p. 354. St. Thomas, “On Truth,” Q. 12, A. 2, C. Council of Trent, session IV, Scriptural Canons: Denzinger 783 (1501). Leo XIII, encyclical “Providentissimus Deus:” EB 121, 124, 126-127. Pius XII, encyclical “Divino Afflante Spiritu:” EB 539.
If we treat the references to Enchiridion Biblicum (1) 121, (2) 124, and (3) 126-127 as 3 separate references, then we have a total of 8 citations here to keep us from… falling into error. 🙂 The first reference is to Augustine:

It is also frequently asked what our belief must be about the form and shape of heaven according to Sacred Scripture. Many scholars engage in lengthy discussions on these matters, but the sacred writers with their deeper wisdom have omitted them. Such subjects are of no profit for those who seek beatitude, and what is worse, they take up very precious time that ought to be given to what is spiritually beneficial. What concern is it of mine whether heaven is like a sphere and the earth is enclosed by it and suspended in the middle of the universe, or whether heaven like a disk above the earth covers it over on one side? But the credibility of Scripture is at stake, and as I have indicated more than once, there is danger that a man uninstructed in divine revelation, discovering something in Scripture or hearing from it something that seems to be at variance with the knowledge he has acquired, may resolutely withhold his assent in other matters where Scripture presents useful admonitions, narratives, or declarations. Hence, I must say briefly that in the matter of the shape of heaven the sacred writers knew the truth, but that the Spirit of God, who spoke through them, did not wish to teach men these facts that would be of no avail for their salvation” (, Bk. 2, 9:20On the Literal Meaning of Genesis).

In other words, the Sacred Author (God) included in the Bible only those things that are in some way profitable to salvation, and He passed over the irrelevant details of science, etc., in silence. Any material extraneous to the benefit of our salvation was excised prior to composition. The “sacred writers knew the truth,” but since they “did not wish to teach men these facts,” they, “with their deeper wisdom have omitted …] lengthy discussions on these matters.”

The second reference is also to Augustine, from his letter to Jerome:

“For I confess to your Charity that I have learned to yield this respect and honour only to the canonical books of Scripture: of these alone do I most firmly believe that the authors were completely free from error. And if in these writings I am perplexed by anything which appears to me opposed to truth, I do not hesitate to suppose that either the manuscript is faulty, or the translator has not caught the meaning of what was said, or I myself have failed to understand it …] I believe, my brother, that this is your own opinion as well as mine. I do not need to say that I do not suppose you to wish your books to be read like those of prophets or of apostles, concerning which it would be wrong to doubt that they are free from error” (, 1, 3Letter 82).

“Completely free from error” means… completely free from error. 🙂
 
The third reference is to Aquinas where he writes that, “the spirit of prophecy inspires the prophets even about conclusions of the sciences” because “many things which are proved in the sciences can be useful for” salvation. “Hence, we find that mention of these is made in Holy Scripture” (, Q. 12, A. 2, C.De Veritate). In this same article, he says that “Although the conclusions of sciences can be known in another way than through prophecy, it is not superfluous for them to be shown by prophetic light, for through faith we cling more firmly to what the prophets say than we do to the demonstrations of the sciences. And in this, too, the grace of God is praised and His perfect knowledge is shown forth.” Although this latter quote was not cited by Dei Verbum, we’ll see this same thought expressed by Pope Leo XIII in the fifth citation.

The fourth reference is to the Council of Trent where it states:

“[The Synod,] following the examples of the orthodox Fathers, receives and holds in veneration with an equal affection of piety and reverence all the books both of the Old and of the New Testament, since one God is the author or both, and also the traditions themselves, those that appertain both to faith and to morals, as having been dictated either by Christ’s own word of mouth, or by the Holy Spirit, and preserved in the Catholic Church by a continuous succession” (Decree Concerning the Canonical Scriptures).

Here we can note that the books of Scripture are set alongside the Traditions “appertaining both to faith and to morals.” We gain from this that the infallibility of the Church extends, as we already know, to include faith and morals; but Scripture doesn’t have this “faith and morals” limitation put to it because “God is the author” of the books of Scripture.

The fifth reference is to Providentissimus Deus where it is stated:

“There can never, indeed, be any real discrepancy between the theologian and the physicist, as long as each confines himself within his own lines, and both are careful, as St. Augustine warns us, ‘not to make rash assertions, or to assert what is not known as known.’ If dissension should arise between them, here is the rule also laid down by St. Augustine, for the theologian: ‘Whatever they can really demonstrate to be true of physical nature, we must show to be capable of reconciliation with our Scriptures; and whatever they assert in their treatises which is contrary to these Scriptures of ours, that is to Catholic faith, we must either prove it as well as we can to be entirely false, or at all events we must, without the smallest hesitation, believe it to be so.’ ”

This citation is perhaps the most emphatic in teaching that Sacred Scripture is free from any error whatsoever. If the scientist asserts anything that is contrary to the Scriptures, then even if we can’t prove that the assertion is false, “we must, without the smallest hesitation, believe it to be so,” i.e., believe that the assertion of the scientist is entirely false. This citation goes on to state that the purpose of Scripture is our salvation, and because of this, “the secrets of nature” were written “in more or less figurative language, or in terms which were commonly used at the time,” and in language describing “what sensibly appeared” and “in the way men could understand and were accustomed to.” But we can’t for this reason charge them with error as we’ll see in the next citation.

The sixth reference is also to Providentissimus Deus. Here is the full quotation without any superfluous comments from me:

“It is true, no doubt, that copyists have made mistakes in the text of the Bible; this question, when it arises, should be carefully considered on its merits, and the fact not too easily admitted, but only in those passages where the proof is clear. It may also happen that the sense of a passage remains ambiguous, and in this case good hermeneutical methods will greatly assist in clearing up the obscurity. But it is absolutely wrong and forbidden, either to narrow inspiration to certain parts only of Holy Scripture, or to admit that the sacred writer has erred. For the system of those who, in order to rid themselves of these difficulties, do not hesitate to concede that divine inspiration regards the things of faith and morals, and nothing beyond, because (as they wrongly think) in a question of the truth or falsehood of a passage, we should consider not so much what God has said as the reason and purpose which He had in mind in saying it—this system cannot be tolerated. For all the books which the Church receives as sacred and canonical, are written wholly and entirely, with all their parts, at the dictation of the Holy Ghost; and so far is it from being possible that any error can co-exist with inspiration, that inspiration not only is essentially incompatible with error, but excludes and rejects it as absolutely and necessarily as it is impossible that God Himself, the supreme Truth, can utter that which is not true.
 
The seventh citation is once again to Providentissimus Deus. Here is the full quotation:

“Such has always been the persuasion of the Fathers. ‘Therefore,’ says St. Augustine, ‘since they wrote the things which He showed and uttered to them, it cannot be pretended that He is not the writer; for His members executed what their Head dictated.’ And St. Gregory the Great thus pronounces: ‘Most superfluous it is to inquire who wrote these things-we loyally believe the Holy Ghost to be the Author of the book. He wrote it Who dictated it for writing; He wrote it Who inspired its execution.’ It follows that those who maintain that an error is possible in any genuine passage of the sacred writings, either pervert the Catholic notion of inspiration, or make God the author of such error.

“And so emphatically were all the Fathers and Doctors agreed that the divine writings, as left by the hagiographers, are free from all error, that they laboured earnestly, with no less skill than reverence, to reconcile with each other those numerous passages which seem at variance – the very passages which in great measure have been taken up by the ‘higher criticism;’ for they were unanimous in laying it down, that those writings, in their entirety and in all their parts were equally from the afflatus of Almighty God, and that God, speaking by the sacred writers, could not set down anything but what was true. The words of St. Augustine to St. Jerome may sum up what they taught: ‘On my part I confess to your charity that it is only to those Books of Scripture which are now called canonical that I have learned to pay such honour and reverence as to believe most firmly that none of their writers has fallen into any error. And if in these Books I meet anything which seems contrary to truth, I shall not hesitate to conclude either that the text is faulty, or that the translator has not expressed the meaning of the passage, or that I myself do not understand.’ ”

The unanimity of the faith of the Fathers and Doctors is no exaggeration, and it is this unanimity that makes “the absence of error in the sacred text” a dogma of our faith (Commentary on the Professio Fidei). I can supply a great number of quotations from the Fathers if you’d like to be edified and encouraged in this way. I have studied this dogma of our faith more than any other. :o

The eighth and final citation is to Divino Afflante Spiritu. Here, again, is the full quotation:

“The first and greatest care of Leo XIII was to set forth the teaching on the truth of the Sacred Books and to defend it from attack. Hence with grave words did he proclaim that there is no error whatsoever if the sacred writer, speaking of things of the physical order ‘went by what sensibly appeared’ as the Angelic Doctor says, speaking either ‘in figurative language, or in terms which were commonly used at the time, and which in many instances are in daily use at this day, even among the most eminent men of science.’ For ‘the sacred writers, or to speak more accurately – the words are St. Augustine’s – the Holy Spirit, Who spoke by them, did not intend to teach men these things – that is the essential nature of the things of the universe – things in no way profitable to salvation’; which principle ‘will apply to cognate sciences, and especially to history,’ that is, by refuting, ‘in a somewhat similar way the fallacies of the adversaries and defending the historical truth of Sacred Scripture from their attacks.’ Nor is the sacred writer to be taxed with error, if ‘copyists have made mistakes in the text of the Bible,’ or, ‘if the real meaning of a passage remains ambiguous.’ Finally it is absolutely wrong and forbidden ‘either to narrow inspiration to certain passages of Holy Scripture, or to admit that the sacred writer has erred,’ since divine inspiration ‘not only is essentially incompatible with error but excludes and rejects it as absolutely and necessarily as it is impossible that God Himself, the supreme Truth, can utter that which is not true. This is the ancient and constant faith of the Church.’ ”

Praise God for footnotes! 🙂 If we hold all of this material in mind when we read this very rich sentence from Dei Verbum, we’ll receive the intended blessing of this truth of our faith. 🙂

With the grace and love towards man of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Pete
 
You are absolutely wrong. There is no misinterpretation on my part as no interpretation is necessary. It is very clear.
The Church teaches that Scripture is inerrant with regard to the truths necessary for our salvation.
It most certainly does not say, for example, that if it says in Scripture that a house roof is red that means it must be red and we are obliged to believe that. The colour of a roof (using that as an example) is not a truth necessary for our salvation.
 
You are absolutely wrong.
Hi Thistle!

Friendly as always! 🙂 I invite you to take me through each citation to demonstrate how I am wrong. The citations guide our understanding of Dei Verbum.
There is no misinterpretation on my part as no interpretation is necessary. It is very clear.
If no interpretation is necessary and it is so clear then why did the council fathers feel the need to provide eight citations for one sentence? :hmmm: 🙂 If I am wrong then please prove it from the citations that the council fathers provided to elucidate their meaning.
The Church teaches that Scripture is inerrant with regard to the truths necessary for our salvation.
Dei Verbum does not say “truths.” It says “the truth.” And all you’re going to find in the Bible is the truth. This is why the Catechism encapsulated the sentence from Dei Verbum by simply saying that “The inspired books teach the truth.”

When the Instrumentum Laboris for the Synod of Bishops on the Word of God proposed in 2008 that “inerrancy applies only to ‘that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings for the sake of salvation,’ ” the wording was rejected by the Bishops. So we know from what happened both before and after the promulgation of Dei Verbum that the limitation you are trying to place on inerrancy is wrong. It is opposed to what Popes Leo XIII and Pius XII identified as the “ancient and constant faith of the Church.” Pope Benedict XVI said that “in his encyclical Providentissimus Deus, Pope Leo XIII offered Catholic exegetes new encouragement and new directives on the subject of inspiration, truth and biblical hermeneutics. Later, Pius XII, in his encyclical Divino Afflante Spiritu, gathered and completed the preceding teaching and urged Catholic exegetes to find solutions in full agreement with the Church’s doctrine” (Address of Pope Benedict XVI to the Pontifical Biblical Commission, 2009). If you want your biblical hermeneutic to be in “full agreement with the Church’s doctrine,” on the “inspiration” and “truth” of Sacred Scripture, then it will have to accord with the teaching of Divino Afflante Spiritu, which “gathered and completed the preceding teaching.”

One of the crafters of Dei Verbum, Augustin Cardinal Bea, wrote the following in his commentary on this dogmatic constitution:

“we declare in general that there is no limit set to this inerrancy, and that it applies to all that the inspired writer, and therefore all that the Holy Spirit by his means, affirms.

“…the possibility of the Scriptures containing any statement contrary to the reality of the facts [is excluded].

“…what is asserted in Scripture… never contradicts the reality of the fact” (“Vatican II and the Truth of Sacred Scripture” as found in Reading Salvation: Word, Worship, and the Mysteries).
It most certainly does not say, for example, that if it says in Scripture that a house roof is red that means it must be red and we are obliged to believe that. The colour of a roof (using that as an example) is not a truth necessary for our salvation.
If we determine through exegesis that the human authors have asserted that the roof is red, then the Doctors of the Church have said that we are so obliged to believe. “For the Church, Sacred Scripture is the Word of God, inspired by Him and therefore guaranteed by divine inerrancy in its own authentic meaning” (Paul VI, General Audience, July, 1 1970, translation provided by Father Brian Harrison of the Roman Theological Forum). If the human author asserts that the roof is red then this has been asserted by the Holy Spirit for the sake of our salvation and it is true: “everything asserted by the inspired authors or sacred writers must be held to be asserted by the Holy Spirit” (Dei Verbum). The human authors “consigned to writing everything and only those things which He wanted” (Dei Verbum). God told us that the roof was red for a reason. The reason is our salvation, thanks be to God!

Your brother in Christ,
Pete
 
Greetings in the Lord, sardegnr!

The reason why the infallibility of the Church is limited is because Scripture is “profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:16-17), and is “the most precious source of doctrine on faith and morals” (Divino Afflante Spiritu). The Bible makes the Church expert in Christian truth, and God has given her the gift of infallibility to secure a final answer for the faithful on Christian doctrine so that we would not be left “always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth” (2 Timothy 3:7), the saving Truth! The verses of Scripture that explain the Church’s infallible authority indicate that this infallibility extends to matters that deal with sin, discipleship, etc. (cf. Matthew 18:15-20, 28:18-20).

The Bible, on the other hand, was written by God, so its inerrancy is unlimited. For those passages in Scripture that seem to deal with questions of scientific truth, the Church defers to the demonstrations of science to shed light on the proper interpretation and to appreciate how these passages nourish the Christian faith.

Hi Thistle!

My old friend.

God wrote the Bible for the sake of our salvation, this is true. Every verse of the Bible was written with this end in view, and every verse of the Bible was written by God. If the human author asserts that a roof was red, this has been asserted by the Holy Spirit for the sake of our salvation, and it is true.

The limitation of inerrancy to faith and morals has been condemned by the Church as false.

Have a blessed day, brother!

In Christ,
Pete
Thank you very much for the explanation. I will check out your scripture cites.
 
Thistle, if it is affirmed in Scripture that a roof was red, then the roof was red and its redness has some importance to our salvation. That is what the Church clearly teaches. You are misunderstanding the phrase “for the sake of our salvation” as some kind of qualifier of what Scripture is inerrant and not, as the Church teaches, a quality of all Scripture.
 
Thistle, if it is affirmed in Scripture that a roof was red, then the roof was red and its redness has some importance to our salvation. That is what the Church clearly teaches. You are misunderstanding the phrase “for the sake of our salvation” as some kind of qualifier of what Scripture is inerrant and not, as the Church teaches, a quality of all Scripture.
What a very important thread - and post -I find here. Given that this subject is at the heart of the infamous Galileo case, and that most threads on the Galileo case are shut down before the question of inerrancy V infallibility is developed, maybe the question can be debated outside the heated nature of the Galileo threads, and among Catholics who are genuinely interested in the subject of Scripture and its importance to the Catholic religion…

This thing ‘if it is useful to our salvation’ and lots of other quips like ‘the Bible is not a science book’, or ‘the Bible teaches us not how the heavens go but how to go to heaven’ all came about as a result of the Galileo case where the Church ruled on the matter of cosmology as stated in the Bible and as interpreted by all the Fathers. When it was supposedly proven by science that the Church was wrong in its interpretation, Catholic exegesis and hermeneutics were blown asunder. It was only then that the one-liners like ‘if it is useful to our salvation’ and lots of other quips like ‘the Bible is not a science book’, or ‘the Bible teaches us not how the heavens go but how to go to heaven’ made their appearance. These were conjured up by the converted Copernicans to make the Church’s ‘mistake’ look unimportant. You see then, a new hermeneutics, separating spiritual matters from mundane matters in the Bible came into being after the Galileo case.

It was the Galileo case also that gave rise to papal encyclicals on Scripture, Given all believed even the Church got it wrong in interpreting the Bible, such was the confusion then as to how the Bible should be read that the first Church encyclical on the Bible was written, Pope Leo XIII’s Providentissimus deus. Now I have seen this encyclical letter quoted on this thread to suit the posters purpose. But it can equally be quoted to undermine everything it said. Thus the encyclical is rendered null and void because of this. I shall give the undermining passager if any want it.

Proof that Providentissimus Deus was worthless in its efforts to prevent Protestant interpretations of the Bible among Catholics - due to the contradicting factor included in it -can be seen in that Pope Benedict XV had to bring out another 30 years later in 1920. In it the Pope states every word of Scripture was written under the guidance of the Holy Ghost and is thus inerrant in everything, spiritual matters and profane matters.

Whiggamore, it is a pleasure to meet you and your Catholicity. After Benedict’s *Spiritus Paraclitus * you have it correct, you are one in a thousand today, If the Bible says the roof was red, then that red roof was described so under the guidance of God for a purpose. But because a red roof now comes under the Galileo hermeneutics of the Modern Church, it counts for nothing and can be interpreted as having been described by an apostle with colour blindness so could have been pink, green or blue. So much for inerrancy overcome by modernism. Now were a pope to have ruled it red, and made blue formal heresy because it contradicts Scripture, and science proved it blue, churchmen would again bring in the ‘non infallible’ ploy when interpreting ‘non salvation’ colours in the Bible, just as they did after Isaac Newton supposedly proved the Church wrong.

But you and I Whigg, believe that red, because it is written up in Scripture, is infallibly true. Indeed on our side is St Robert Bellarmine, the greatest theologian of his day. It was He who stated that any factual matter written in Scripture is ‘of faith’ because it appears in Scripture, and thus is under the protection of God as a truth. He stated that if you start throwing out facts in the Bible as meaningless, then out with then go things like the Virgin Birth, or the number of sons Jacob had. And the Bible, if correctly interpreted, cannot be proven wrong. So if the Bible says the roof was red, then it was red, and not a colour inserted in the Bible by a ill sighted person.

Finally, if a pope defines and declares a ceretain interpretation of Scripture, no matter what about, **he is infallible **if done as an official act of the Church. If however, another pope tell the Pontifical Academy of Sciences that he thinks it was pink, then he speaking unofficially outside the Church is very fallible.
 
Just building on something a poster said earlier, the Bible is truthful, not always “factual.” Thus, Genesis seeks to communicate the truth of God’s role as sole Creator of all of the physical universe, and His dominion over that. Genesis also truthfully communicates man’s secondary dominion and primary stewardship, graciously shared with mankind by God, of that universe. It non-factually describes a “firmament,” in the cosmos, reflecting an ancient primitive understanding of the physical layering of that universe, prior to modern sophisticated astronomy.

The purpose of the sacred oral tradition which eventually became written (i.e., Bible) was to convey truths, not to convey facts. In some cases we are privileged to have many historical facts communicated as well, such as details about lineage of historical Jewish leaders (including but not limited to Jesus), references to actual military battles and other events, and biographical details about apostles and disciples, but the context of all of the facts is surrounded and modified by the authors’ purposes to convey truths. 🙂
 
This thing ‘if it is useful to our salvation’ and lots of other quips like ‘the Bible is not a science book’, or ‘the Bible teaches us not how the heavens go but how to go to heaven’ all came about as a result of the Galileo case where the Church ruled on the matter of cosmology as stated in the Bible and as interpreted by all the Fathers. When it was supposedly proven by science that the Church was wrong in its interpretation, Catholic exegesis and hermeneutics were blown asunder. It was only then that the one-liners like ‘if it is useful to our salvation’ and lots of other quips like ‘the Bible is not a science book’, or ‘the Bible teaches us not how the heavens go but how to go to heaven’ made their appearance. These were conjured up by the converted Copernicans to make the Church’s ‘mistake’ look unimportant. You see then,** a new hermeneutics, separating spiritual matters from mundane matters in the Bible came into being after the Galileo case.**
When a “new hermeneutic” “comes into being”, it is not necessarily an indication that it only came to be believed at that point.

Take this metaphor:

It has been the “constant teaching” in our house that when the kids come home from school they are to put all their school supplies away.

Despite the fact that they have been doing this every school day for 2-11 years every once in a while we need to have a “family meeting” to pronounce, declare and define exactly who should be doing which job and how it is to be done. (Note: I try to ignore their incredulous looks that say, “What? We’re supposed to hang up our backpacks again this year?” or “What? You’ve never said that we had to take off our uniforms and hang them up!” )

At this council we recall what’s been done in the past, review the current norms and define again exactly what’s the expectation. Sometimes the kids complain that we are “making up new rules”, claiming we’ve “never done it this way before” when in actuality we are just pronouncing, declaring and defining a standard norm of our family.

I also might add in this metaphor that sometimes things “come up” that did not need defining earlier, but because of the development of our family requires further refinement.

Example: for the first 4 years of my children’s schooling they did not use a backpack.***

Thus, when they started in the upper grades coming home and throwing their backpacks on the floor we had to have a “council” to announce: ALL BACKPACKS NEED TO BE HUNG ON THEIR RESPECTIVE HOOKS.

Now, this is not a new command. The ever-present command was: ALL SCHOOL SUPPLIES NEED TO BE PUT AWAY WHEN YOU COME HOME.

However, as there were no backpacks for the first 4 years, there was no need to say, “And that includes backpacks, of course!”

Now, they can try (and they did!) to say, “Hey, that never was a rule before!”

But we, of course, are too smart for them. 😃
 
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